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In your opinion, what is the point of life?

Negentropic said:
indeed almost paradoxical but true

The countries that rank highest in happiness and lowest in suicide are poor 3rd world countries. Western society has attempted to remove everything bad in life and now have the lowest life satisfaction.
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This theory is fortunately completely incorrect. The happiest countries in the world are wealthy Scandinavian countries, while some of the highest suicide rates are found in '3rd world'/developing nations.

Happiest Countries in the World 2021:
  1. Finland
  2. Denmark
  3. Switzerland
  4. Iceland
  5. Netherlands
  6. Norway
  7. Sweden
  8. Luxembourg
  9. New Zealand
  10. Austria
Highest Suicide Rates in the World 2019:
  1. Lesotho
  2. Guyana
  3. Eswatini
  4. Kiribati
  5. Micronesia
  6. Suriname
  7. Zimbabwe
  8. South Africa
  9. Mozambique
  10. Central African Republic
 
Negentropic said:
indeed almost paradoxical but true

The countries that rank highest in happiness and lowest in suicide are poor 3rd world countries. Western society has attempted to remove everything bad in life and now have the lowest life satisfaction.
Click to expand...
First rating of human happines is Bhutan
 
Nas47 said:
First rating of human happines is Bhutan
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Where are you getting that from? Bhutan actually tends to rank ~45th percentile on happiness surveys, though this may be due to parts of said surveys being far too subjective and measuring happiness via material wealth. So it really depends on how you define happiness.
 
arrall said:
Where are you getting that from? Bhutan actually tends to rank ~45th percentile on happiness surveys, though this may be due to parts of said surveys being far too subjective and measuring happiness via material wealth. So it really depends on how you define happiness.
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You say it.
 
arrall said:
This theory is fortunately completely incorrect. The happiest countries in the world are wealthy Scandinavian countries, while some of the highest suicide rates are found in '3rd world'/developing nations.

Happiest Countries in the World 2021:
  1. Finland
  2. Denmark
  3. Switzerland
  4. Iceland
  5. Netherlands
  6. Norway
  7. Sweden
  8. Luxembourg
  9. New Zealand
  10. Austria
Highest Suicide Rates in the World 2019:
  1. Lesotho
  2. Guyana
  3. Eswatini
  4. Kiribati
  5. Micronesia
  6. Suriname
  7. Zimbabwe
  8. South Africa
  9. Mozambique
  10. Central African Republic
Click to expand...
Hmm, I don't remember what paper I read. We might be talking about different data points.

iirc it was about overall life satisfaction, and maybe not literal happiness.

Are these self reported data? How are they defining happiness?

Are these suicides per capita or total? The first four countries I haven't even heard of and probably have tiny populations, might be skewing the data.

Many variables.

But there really is something to the thing I said about Western society, I've read several articles on that (albeit several years ago)
 
Negentropic said:
Hmm, I don't remember what paper I read. We might be talking about different data points.

iirc it was about overall life satisfaction, and maybe not literal happiness.

Are these self reported data? How are they defining happiness?

Are these suicides per capita or total? Many variables.
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Suicides are per capita (total would just be high population countries like China, India, Indonesia, etc.) but you are right that the happiness study is based on a subjective survey since there is no objective way to define happiness.
 
Negentropic said:
I think the more society tries to eliminate hardship it has the paradoxical reaction of highlighting hardship when people do have it.

Life is balance, duality, you cannot eliminate yin from yang
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Well yes. When there is far less poverty, then the poverty that still exists becomes far more abnormal.
 
I don't fkng know, life equals pain. Drugs get rid of thst pain momentarily soooo.... get high xD. Life has no meaning tbh, u give meaning to it.
 
In my opinion, there isn't one. In the grander scheme of the Universe, humans have been - and will be - here for such a tiny amount of time and are such a tiny part of it that ultimately absolutely nothing that any of us do matters whatsoever or will have any meaning or impact. Humans tend to arrogantly assume they matter when they don't. The human race as a whole does not matter, never mind any individual. People are even so arrogant they make up entities ("gods", "higher powers" etc) because they think they are SO amazing that there simply MUST be some all-knowing all-able being that intentionally designed and created them personally. Kinda hilarious, really. Like, bruh, get over yourself.
 
there is no point to life.

Thats the freedom within it. Life is to be lived by you a unique ride.

There is no meaning within the outside world of life. The only meaning you will ever find is within yourself. That is a journey you have to take.

Life was born out of love. One giant crazy fucking game god plays with itself
 
arrall said:
This theory is fortunately completely incorrect. The happiest countries in the world are wealthy Scandinavian countries, while some of the highest suicide rates are found in '3rd world'/developing nations.

Happiest Countries in the World 2021:
  1. Finland
  2. Denmark
  3. Switzerland
  4. Iceland
  5. Netherlands
  6. Norway
  7. Sweden
  8. Luxembourg
  9. New Zealand
  10. Austria
Highest Suicide Rates in the World 2019:
  1. Lesotho
  2. Guyana
  3. Eswatini
  4. Kiribati
  5. Micronesia
  6. Suriname
  7. Zimbabwe
  8. South Africa
  9. Mozambique
  10. Central African Republic
Click to expand...
In Finland subutex is like super popular...I think even more than heroin, their blow is practically non existent, same with good ecstasy. Plus the government sells the booze real expensive. And the weather is shit....who the fk did that list? Xdddd
 
arrall said:
This theory is fortunately completely incorrect. The happiest countries in the world are wealthy Scandinavian countries, while some of the highest suicide rates are found in '3rd world'/developing nations.

Happiest Countries in the World 2021:
  1. Finland
  2. Denmark
  3. Switzerland
  4. Iceland
  5. Netherlands
  6. Norway
  7. Sweden
  8. Luxembourg
  9. New Zealand
  10. Austria
Highest Suicide Rates in the World 2019:
  1. Lesotho
  2. Guyana
  3. Eswatini
  4. Kiribati
  5. Micronesia
  6. Suriname
  7. Zimbabwe
  8. South Africa
  9. Mozambique
  10. Central African Republic
Click to expand...
I'm interested in what their scientific methodology is to determine happiness,
and how big the sample sizes are. I didn't know there was such a thing as a happy-mometer.

If you think about how they determined who is happy and who isn't, they probably just asked the question.
"Are you happy?", maybe people not from Scandinavia are more honest about their feelings?
I've known many Scandinavians to be very reserved, private people, maybe it's just more of a "I'm doing wonderful, now fuck off"

The highest suicide rates argument can be refuted with the lowest suicide rates, which are:
  1. Antigua and Barbuda - 0.4
  2. Barbados - 0.6
  3. Grenada - 0.7
  4. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines - 1.0
  5. Sao Tome and Principe - 1.5
  6. Jordan - 1.6
  7. Syria - 2.0
  8. Venezuela - 2.1
  9. Honduras - 2.1
  10. Philippines - 2.2

    from the same study you used. Also a bunch of third-world countries. It's just that their low population makes even a bunch of suicides spike the numbers extremely, but usually there will be almost nothing. This study would only be worth anything on a socio-scientific basis, if it was done in relation to both per capita & the actual numbers, all other data is just worthless, sadly. Can't use your study to work in your favor for this argument, it's just random physical events in a low populated country. Imagine one suicide pact(like there are dozens and dozens in the US), like 50 ppl kill themselves, in the USA that's not even going to make a dent(0.00000016% of the population), in Lesotho where the population is only 2million strong, it does make a dent indeed.

    Thank you, that's it from the info fairy, turn in next week for our special on train conducting
 
nznity said:
In Finland subutex is like super popular...I think even more than heroin, their blow is practically non existent, same with good ecstasy. Plus the government sells the booze real expensive. And the weather is shit....who the fk did that list? Xdddd
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Those societies are sick.I see a lot of this nordic people incuding brits,when come here to seaside having cheap booze and girls in absolute coma-lying drunked across the streets,puke everywhere ....young girls dragging across the streets totaly alcohol poisoned.Beating and insulting stuff in the hotels.Like total animals....yeah havin a real goodtime here.Very doubt that this could happen in their countries.Thats the lowincome tourist probably.I am sure that there is wonderful people too.Sorry if I insult somebody.These rich countries are rich,cause somewhere others are getting poorer and poorer.Hypocricy everywhere
 
polarthedog said:
What do you think we’re here for?
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Being a fiber of the the whole I guess. But that is just what revealed during dissociative trip's.

That and that time is irrelevant. Which imo means you might loose your memory' s or whatever. Get into another level. But through death is by that definition impossible. Again a dissociative induced knowledge. N2O.

But what does that say over the meaning, nothing. There surely must be one.
 
December Flower said:
I mean I'm sure there are perks to honoring the destroyer, all death is foundation for new life,
that's the flip side of the coin nobody wants to look at. Death is something beautiful, a reward at the end of life,
yet we fear it, because we don't want to understand its fundamental idea.

Without the terror of death lurking behind us, how would we ever achieve anything?
Why would we even want to learn as much as possible, if our life-spans were thousands of years long?
Without the pressure of the Grim Reaper, we would not be as ambitious as we are, as a species.
We're aware of Death, and it pushes us further and further, to find answer upon answer of how to either inflict it, or prevent it.

We would not have the ambition to "live life to the fullest" if death wasn't a constant in our lives, why would anyone even bother?
I often get the feeling that many of us do not cherish this opportunity they got. Experiencing pain, mistakes, sadness, death,
it makes us stronger, more resilient. I think Death has been the key motivator in the technological and medical advancements of humanity,
change my mind anyone, I'll wait.

In a very bizarre way, Death is the meaning of life, or better said: Death is what gives life meaning
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Death is what gives life meaning

No philosophy, no offence, should be ultimatley satifasified with that.
 
blue kringle said:
Death is what gives life meaning

No philosophy, no offence, should be ultimatley satifasified with that.
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Dude, I was essentially paraphrasing a mix of Aristotle's & Sokrates' outlook on death.
Do you even know how much of philosophy is based on death being something beautiful?

If you can't see the Godfathers of philosophy having a "satifasifactory philosophy", then I propose as a solution for you to lower your fucking expectations...?

I very likely insulted you, but to me it's like a needle in a stack of hay situation to find where exactly, it's prolly just the whole thing, stack of needles, I'm not gonna delete it now after thinking about it for 42 fucking minutes how to not be insulting, so I'll just say sorry, none of this is meant personally I'm just an ass.
 
December Flower said:
I'm interested in what their scientific methodology is to determine happiness,
and how big the sample sizes are. I didn't know there was such a thing as a happy-mometer.

If you think about how they determined who is happy and who isn't, they probably just asked the question.
"Are you happy?", maybe people not from Scandinavia are more honest about their feelings?
I've known many Scandinavians to be very reserved, private people, maybe it's just more of a "I'm doing wonderful, now fuck off"

The highest suicide rates argument can be refuted with the lowest suicide rates, which are:
  1. Antigua and Barbuda - 0.4
  2. Barbados - 0.6
  3. Grenada - 0.7
  4. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines - 1.0
  5. Sao Tome and Principe - 1.5
  6. Jordan - 1.6
  7. Syria - 2.0
  8. Venezuela - 2.1
  9. Honduras - 2.1
  10. Philippines - 2.2

    from the same study you used. Also a bunch of third-world countries. It's just that their low population makes even a bunch of suicides spike the numbers extremely, but usually there will be almost nothing. This study would only be worth anything on a socio-scientific basis, if it was done in relation to both per capita & the actual numbers, all other data is just worthless, sadly. Can't use your study to work in your favor for this argument, it's just random physical events in a low populated country. Imagine one suicide pact(like there are dozens and dozens in the US), like 50 ppl kill themselves, in the USA that's not even going to make a dent(0.00000016% of the population), in Lesotho where the population is only 2million strong, it does make a dent indeed.

    Thank you, that's it from the info fairy, turn in next week for our special on train conducting
Click to expand...
While I do not think that the focus of this conversation should be suicide or happiness rates - and I see it as a far more philosophical conversation than a socioeconomic one - I would like to further explain my argument: That suffering and extreme hardship are not necessary to find meaning and happiness.

The World Happiness Index goes far more in-depth than asking "Are you happy?", though it is obviously not a perfect survey. I am not too familiar with the specific questions that they use. I know that socioeconomic factors such as healthcare availability, low unemployment, income equality, and financial stability each play a small role in the scores of each country.

As for suicide rates, I would attribute them to a combination of hardship, socioeconomic factors, and cultural factors. To tackle the point about the lowest suicide rates, some of those countries (Syria, Venzuela) have high rates of death from other causes. But the point I am attempting to argue is not that hardship always leads to suicide. It is that hardship does not generally lead to happiness, satistfaction, and meaning.

The 'spike' argument is generally inaccurate and - outside of extreme and massive incidents like Jonestown - one mass suicide would not be enough to catapult a country from 90th place to top 5. Lesotho has the 2nd highest rate of HIV in the world, the highest rate of sexual assault in the world (since at least 2008, and has had the highest suicide rate in the world since at least 2008. South Africa's suicide rate was actually down significantly in 2019, and it has a population of 60 million (Far too high to be drastically affected by even a Jonestown incident). Income inequality and poor social safety nets also play a role (See: #11 Russia and #12 South Korea, with most suicides in the latter being due to nearly half of the elderly population being in poverty).

Even Bhutan, a theocratic Tibetan Buddhist monarchy, has one of the highest suicide rates in the world (20th in 2011). And this is despite the government not performing autopsies and reporting many suicides as accidental deaths. The high suicide rate is presumed to be due to unemployment, 'broken families', a social taboo on discussing suicide, and high domestic violence rates. You would think that if suffering brings meaning, then at least a country with a population that is 75% Buddhist would be able to find said meaning and happiness.

My point here being: Suffering and extreme hardship may help some people - the few who survive and come out stronger for it - find meaning and eventual happiness (usually at the cost of severe emotional/other traumas), but they hurt most people far more than they bring them any 'meaning'. Suffering is not required, and many people in "easy" countries like the Scandinavian countries seem to be quite happy with their lives.

EDIT: Another thing, some of the low-suicide-rate countries have extremely low populations (e.g. Antigua+Barbuda/Grenada/St. Vincent each have population of a bit over 100k, Sao Tome+Principe and Barbados are in the 200-300K range). Kiribati (one of the highest) is also in the 100K range, but most countries in the top 10/20 have far larger populations than the bottom 5.
 
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