Conspiracies The Covid Narrative

[Jabberwocky]

i'm still supposed to be working but from 5 mins of digging i can't see anything like what you are suggesting. from here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...eaths/datasets/monthlyfiguresondeathsregister

2021, 2020, 2019. the pandemic is pretty clear. i couldn't see the per million tables and i don't see why i should invest more time when its so clear you're lying. but the differences are sufficiently stark that normalisation won't have a huge impact. you can also see the impact of the vaccine rollout, and lockdowns. pretty cool.



or are you going to now dispute the numbers from your own chosen source?

edit because i misread 'The following two snapshots are taken from ONS datasets compiled to XLS, obviously from other FOI request' - so give the source for that. the actual source for the exact tables you posted.

 

[alasdairm]

it's a little different me saying that I would leave an online forum and then coming back

it's no different.

I also think that you would return here eventually if you lost.

i would have left forever because i believe if you lose a bet you pay up. frankly, i'd have been way too embarrassed to lose that bet then show up here a few months later as if nothing happened.

you're implying that I lied once so people shouldn't believe anything that I say?

i'm not implying it. i am saying it clearly.

you seem somehow confused by the fact that other people continue to believe experts who lied. i'm just saying that you're in a position to understand why.

But you still believe the BS experts like Fauci and co. regarding this covid nonsense

you have absolutely no idea what i think about 'bs experts like fauci and co.' but keep assuming...

alasdair

 

[-=SS=-]

according to the link you provided the mortality rates, both crude and and age standardised mortality rates were > 100 higher in 2020 compared to the preceeding years. there's your pandemic. from your own source.

Did you even bother to look at the whole table, past the first 3 rows? No, you didn't, because if you did you'd clearly see that 'Crude' is higher for ALL the years 1990 - 2003 compared to 2020, and 'Standardized' is higher for ALL the years 1990 - 2008 compared to 2020.

You can't post data from just 2021, 2020, and 2019, and say there's a clear indication. That is beyond a joke, and for someone who (apparently) is a PhD that is fucking ridiculous.

 

[-=SS=-]

Even your own table proves nothing of a pandemic at all, again except for the anomaly of April/May 2020. But this is all irrelevant without the context of the long-term data, provided in the ONS table linked above, which clearly show the years 1990 - 2003 (approx) being worse than 2020.

You can continue to claim there's been the most deaths or X amount, just like the government is doing, but that's utterly misleading given our population has continually grown and therefore it's no surprise that we might break the highest figure for a single year total. What matters is the long-term data that shows the figures proportional to the population. Which if you look at it, shown in my post, clearly shows there is nothing out of the ordinary at all.

You can claim we had a bad flu season last winter if you like, which I would agree with - no surprise when you've kept people under lockdown and fucked up an entire year of their lives with nothing but non-stop fear and psychological stress! But again the figures don't speak to a pandemic at all. Maybe your definition of pandemic is absurdly light. I don't consider something with a 99% survival rate across all ages (except the very elderly) to be anything of the sort quite frankly, but then again I'm not hamstrung by idiotic pharmaceutical/state ideologies.

 

[Jabberwocky]

you are ignoring 17 years of medical science. 2003 was the year the human genome project was completed and its well known that its caused huge advances in medical science, i wouldn't expect to have seen an impact on death rate that quick, but i'm sure it can't be entirely a coincidence (plus it was a multi year project, so previous results had some time to mature).

may 2020 still had 8k more deaths than the previous year. the 3 januaries, we have nearly 20k more in 2021 than 2019 and 17k more in 2020, 15k more in february. if you are going to post ONS data and claim it supports your position you'd really expect it to, like, support your position. you are now denying your own source.

and yes i looked at the whole table. what do you think, from row 4 onwards, would impact my conclusions?

now. post the link to the exact tables you included images of here.

 

[-=SS=-]

you are ignoring 17 years of medical science. 2003 was the year the human genome project was completed and its well known that its caused huge advances in medical science, i wouldn't expect to have seen an impact on death rate that quick, but i'm sure it can't be entirely a coincidence (plus it was a multi year project, so previous results had some time to mature).

may 2020 still had 8k more deaths than the previous year. the 3 januaries, we have nearly 20k more in 2021 than 2019 and 17k more in 2020, 15k more in february. if you are going to post ONS data and claim it supports your position you'd really expect it to, like, support your position. you are now denying your own source.

and yes i looked at the whole table. what do you think, from row 4 onwards, would impact my conclusions?

now. post the link to the exact tables you included images of here.

What the fuck are you talking about. Death rates are death rates, is has absolutely nothing to do with the human genome project. People being alive or dead is as binary as it comes, the data is the data.

You are now actually trying to pretend that the data (linked ONS website) from pre-2017 is irrelevant. The data clearly shows that the years 1990 - 2003 were actually worse than 2020 for both 'Crude' and 'Standardized'.

You are being willfully ignorant of official data because it contradicts your beliefs. I don't think it could be any more clear.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You are being willfully ignorant of official data because it contradicts your beliefs. I don't think it could be any more clear. You may be a PhD but you're certainly not smart at all.

hilarious. amazing.

do you seriously think medical science hasn't advanced one iota since 2003, and that therefore you can directly compare death rates from pre 2003 to now. 20-30 year old data are not comparable.

death rates decrease as people live longer. because, by living longer, they are not dying, and therefore not contributing to the death rate. people live longer when medical science advances, which it does over time, and it was given a particular boost by the human genome project.

source for the actual link your tables came from. please. your evasion isn't serving you.

 

[-=SS=-]

Stop deflecting. We're not talking about adjustments in living standards or advances in medical science. The notion that the human genome project has utterly revolutionized death rates rendering previous years irrelevant is beyond ludicrous. You'd think you were talking about the invention of clean drinking water or something! Don't take the piss.

The overall death rates from the 1990 - 2003 are worse than the year 2020. If 2020 was a serious global pandemic year as you and the government claim, then the death rate for 2020 would be worse than all those years. That is simple logic. You can not claim there is a super dangerous pandemic killing lots of people in this country, and then dismiss the thirteen years where the death rates were worse when there was no pandemic. I lived in the 1990s. If anything people were actually healthier then than they are now!!

You're trying to project your ideology on to very simple data. It's embarrassing and self-evident you can't explain the monumental disparity between reality and the reality on TV.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

Covid death toll is totally faked aswell when u het shot to death they record u as saying from covid if u test positive it's all a fucking scam

 

[Yourbaker]

Although this virus has been raging now for nearly 2 years i only know 1 person personally who has died from it, 12 people who have had it including myself 8 of whom felt it was a flu of minimal strain 2 had it bad and one had a near death experience. The person i know that died was my father, he was 94 in a care home for dementia patients and we were called in 6 months earlier to say goodbye because he slipped into a coma. He was not well. The insane rules prevented my father from seeing any of his family for the last 12 months of his life, they did not protect him from anything but yet another boogieman made far bigger than it is by people who profit off fear.

I only know one person who has died from the vaccine and honestly im not sure if her name was Judy or Julie (sorry). She was not a healthy person and she developed blood clots and died in a very early vaccine round.

The real death toll will be in the sweeping economic punishment we have dealt to our population. Businesses are closing in unprecedented numbers, media are saying thousands in my province of 5 million people. I cant find real numbers but it may not be a media hype number, it looks like thousands when I can see entire malls boarded shut and long standing industries shutting down for good.

It appears for more likely to me that these are just the first steps of shrinking our population through totalitarian control. Either way im being lied to and forced to dance by people that dont have authority over me, the entire work force that actually do skilled labour are being overlooked and the future economic shortfalls may well lead to an early end to this society.

You can argue spike proteins, or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, either way you've happily left reality and in my opinion adopted a faith based religious belief. We are being lied to and it is not for our well being.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Stop deflecting. We're not talking about adjustments in living standards or advances in medical science. The notion that the human genome project has utterly revolutionized death rates rendering previous years irrelevant is beyond ludicrous. You'd think you were talking about the invention of clean drinking water or something! Don't take the piss.

so what is your explanation for the decrease in death rates from 2003 until the pandemic? i said outright i was surprised it could have caused that big a change that quickly, but at least i offered an explanation. i'm not denying the death rates were worse 30 years ago, i'm saying that the progress we have made as a species is what caused them to improve since then.

you didn't have a smartphone in 2003. or 3g,4g,5g, fibre broadband. fuck your laptop battery didn't last, you couldn't get wifi everywhere, you didn't even sign in digitally at the drs. d so on't argue that technology hasn't improved since then. 80s kids like me have witnessed revolutions in every area, i remember my dad getting an email in 1992 and saying that was revolutionary. i didn't understand at the time cos i was 6 but he was right. these improvements extend to medical science, in fact they are more pronounced there because that research is better funded. look at the pace of advancements in medicine prior to and post the human genome project, like look at them, and tell me it made no difference.

and, again. the actual links for the tables you posted. its starting to look like they are from such a dodgy source you're embarrased to post them. why don't you just show the courage of your convictions and post them. its hilarious to be accused of deflecting when i've asked you the same question multiple times and you haven't responded. you tried to make it look like they came from a reputable source, but untl you've proved otherwise, its safe to conclude they do not- since they contradict many reputable sources.

i'd prefer a better source, but i'm tired so here is a page with a graph showing life expectancy suddenly decreasing as the pandemic hit, after steadily increasing for decades. the sources on this page are PHE and ONS:

What is happening to life expectancy in England?

Veena Raleigh examines trends in life expectancy at birth up to 2021 and the impact of Covid-19 in 2020 and 2021, gender differences, inequalities, causes of the changing trends since 2011, and how the UK’s life expectancy compares with other countries.

www.kingsfund.org.uk

 

[Deleted member 521610]

modern medical science doesn't mean shit for the life span. You can live out in a isolated amazonian jungle with no tech no medical and live to 105 living naturally.

If anything the modern world has reduced the natural lifespan of humans by poisonings our entire food chain.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You can argue spike proteins, or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, either way you've happily left reality and in my opinion adopted a faith based religious belief. We are being lied to and it is not for our well being.

erm, one was a medieval debate about theology and the other is evidence based.

i'm going to come out and say i'm a buddhist.

my day job is in bioinformatics and i've spent a good portion of this year studying mutations in covid and the spike protein in particular. its fucking offensive to be told that my day job is my religion, and you aren't the first person in this thread to do it. i've tried to keep my spiritual beliefs out of this. but that's where i stand. i have a job, and a religion. please don't confuse the two. completely separate spheres and i would like for people in this thread to stop being so presumptuous as to state that those of us who are working trying to save lives here are misguided by some imagined religion. though i still really want to hear about the relision SS imagined for me cos it sounds hilarious.

modern medical science doesn't mean shit for the life span. You can live out in a isolated amazonian jungle with no tech no medical and live to 105 living naturally.

If anything the modern world has reduced the natural lifespan of humans by poisonings our entire food chain.

then explain the differences in life expectancies- amazon tribes have life expectancies decades lower than those with the privilege of western medicine.

i've asked you for citations before. cough up or lose credibility.

i agree we've caused a lot of shit but as it stands, your claims re life span are outright false, by a factor of ~2.

edit: i've vastly undersold buddhism here. its not dogmatic, but people keep accusing me of religous beliefs re covid, and i now i realise they mean dogmatic blind acceptance. so though i do have what i consider religious beliefs, they don't meet the implied criteria here.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

amazon tribes do not lol have you been there and see those old shamans they are over 100 lol.

 

[Jabberwocky]

amazon tribes do not lol have you been there and see those old shamans they are over 100 lol.

yep i've been to the amazon. the average age, both by my own anecdotal (and therefore invalid) estimate and official estimates is well below those of populations with access to modern medical science.

 

[Yourbaker]

I realize you don't see the near mirror identical pattern you are in. Some of us just don't fear what isn't there despite how many new terms must be created to help instill fear. Language is a very powerful tool, if you stay inside a tiny sample of regularly used language everyone can understand you, as soon as you jump ship, requiring your reader to spend half their time interpreting superfluous wording, you are arguing about nothing anymore because you've lost you're audience.

Donald Trump held the American Presidency and those may be the largest words he ever used.

I've followed this argument for a while and i've seen two sides. One is stating very real facts that I can see and find the other is making up a whole new story that requires faith in what I'm being told not the reality I'm experiencing.

So to me you're arguing number that simply don't exist and clutching at straws to try and make a narrative even you can swallow. The Lie isn't you personally and I' m sure you have no sum gain from this Grandly Mastered Covid Event. As it unfolds I'm sure no one will end up happy with the result.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Donald Trump held the American Presidency and those may be the largest words he ever used.

this tells me everything i need to know. thank you.

and actually i gained a fucking lot from covid cos my skills became very valuable when suddenly everyone needed them but that's not why i believe in it and i wish i coulda got this level of professional respect without so much carnage. nobody who has spent over a decade on academic wages and working conditions is money or glory oriented, the only reason you put youself through that shit is because its truly a vocation.

i don't give a shit about a narrative. i give a shit about data. and i'm yet to see any that contradicts my position. probably cos my position is informed by data.

out of interest. what are the very real facts one side is stating, and what are your sources for them?

 

[Deleted member 521610]

the mind control matrix is strong.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

It's unfortunate that it took a vaccine rollout to get people to wake up to the notion that the TPTB control our bodily autonomy.
The war on drugs should have made that obvious from the get-go.

You have to remember they're good people just misguided by a powerful system that assaults them with propaganda from the day they come out of the womb. Every time I think I've got it figured I find out I'm wrong. It's really hard to get through to anyone with the censorship and programming. Takes years to deprogram someone. That's why you see people demanding citations and dismissing anything that runs counter to what they already know. I can't give citations when they're constantly being purged from the internet and nothing can be published that goes against the narrative.

I've found it easier to reach people through things like music. Here is a good example:


These days I just give people the material and hope they care enough to research for themselves. I don't have time to deprogram people anymore. I try to be as nice and friendly as I can but they usually take what I say as an insult. People can be highly intelligent and still fooled. When you find out everything you know is a lie the mind comes up with all sorts of justifications for holding on to the lie. People do not want to accept that they're slaves.

 

[Illyria99]