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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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i've made my point.

i prefer to actually add to discussion rather than make it impossible by cluttering threads with copy/pasted articles.

if you would like to give a precis of what you've learned about the biology and data for these reactions from your obviously extensive reading, maybe that would be useful? maybe with some comparative numbers to projected lives saved by the same vaccines for balance?
 
you think they're saving lives but you don't know that for a fact so i disagree and im not debating with you anymore when you refuse to recognize the downside of the shots

so...here we are

i post articles of the downside of the vaccines as they happen....these are new articles everyday....real time

this is the news that your government doesn't want you to see or read

im just here to let you know, there's another side of this....

people are suffering from vaccine injuries

and you don't want to see or read about it

then ignore me

but im not debating you if thats what you want
 
wait since when did the establishment agree that this was man made?

i have worked on genomes of GMO crops- many many times greater than the human genome. the genetic modification was immediately obvious upon comparison to other strains of the same crop types. even crops made by very controlled natural selection have fucking obvious marks of their history in their genomes. for the GMOs, the company doing it were breaching EU law and have resources comparable to many medium sized states so if they couldn't hide it, how has one research lab managed to hide it in a much smaller genome?

the SARS-COV2 genome is 30kb- it differs from the closest bat coronavirus by about 600 bases (more than made it fucking obvious in crops). which bit is supposedly created in a lab?

i'm prepared to entertain the possiblity but i need to hand in my resignation if its true, i really should have noticed given i've worked full time on SARS-COV2 since january. but i like my job so going to need some actual evidence before i chuck in the towel.

there is the following note on the first link posted by @Foreigner above:

30 March 2020 Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.
 
chinup said:
wait since when did the establishment agree that this was man made?

i have worked on genomes of GMO crops- many many times greater than the human genome. the genetic modification was immediately obvious upon comparison to other strains of the same crop types. even crops made by very controlled natural selection have fucking obvious marks of their history in their genomes. for the GMOs, the company doing it were breaching EU law and have resources comparable to many medium sized states so if they couldn't hide it, how has one research lab managed to hide it in a much smaller genome?

the SARS-COV2 genome is 30kb- it differs from the closest bat coronavirus by about 600 bases (more than made it fucking obvious in crops). which bit is supposedly created in a lab?

i'm prepared to entertain the possiblity but i need to hand in my resignation if its true, i really should have noticed given i've worked full time on SARS-COV2 since january. but i like my job so going to need some actual evidence before i chuck in the towel.

there is the following note on the first link posted by @Foreigner above:

30 March 2020 Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.
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The journal nature is sponsored by good old China. Of course they're all that note.

Read the other articles.

Nobody said there is consensus, but it's pretty obvious to anyone who does the reading. It's not even a conspiracy theory. How did a virus that supposedly come from nature - jumping through 3 species, btw - start in a major city, with no natural reservoir found.
 
Foreigner said:
Nobody said there is consensus, but it's pretty obvious to anyone who does the reading. It's not even a conspiracy theory. How did a virus that supposedly come from nature - jumping through 3 species, btw - start in a major city, with no natural reservoir found.
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i have been reading and analysing data from SARS-COV2 genomes as my full time occupation since January and it is not obvious to me.

we are evidently reading different sources. but the data is public on nextstrain, ucsc, and you can download tons from NCBI.
 
CFC said:
I'm not sure. I try not to think about politics too much tbh, because otherwise I'd get really wound up about stuff that there's no way I could ever change or have any impact upon whatsoever.

IMO society is a bit of a mess, there's not much trust shared between the public, governments, and corporations in many countries. And so I think most people find it hard to know with any certainty how to think about things that they can't possibly know, because nobody necessarily knows at any given moment in time, and because the flow of information is constrained and/or manipulated both due to incompetence, the overwhelming noise of excessive information shared everywhere, and obviously sometimes for more nefarious or strategic geo-political reasons.
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I agree, and a pretty apt run down about why we are where we are IMO
 
The bats it came from supposedly live over 1000 miles away from Wuhan...but there just happens to be a virology lab there that was dicking around with bat viruses

But that's just a coincidence 😂
 
chinup said:
i have been reading and analysing data from SARS-COV2 genomes as my full time occupation since January and it is not obvious to me.

we are evidently reading different sources. but the data is public on nextstrain, ucsc, and you can download tons from NCBI.
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Cool, believe what you like. I think something shady is happening.
 
@Foreigner

China is a Super Power not a 3rd world country.

They also have just as much right as any other nation with a 4 stage bio research facility. I spent a long time researching that lab and its state of the art, completely on par with others world wide.

The person who decided to conduct the research in lvl 2 conditions rather than 4 is ultimately to blame (assuming it came from there, which im leaning towards a yes)
 
andyturbo said:
@Foreigner

China is a Super Power not a 3rd world country.

They also have just as much right as any other nation with a 4 stage bio research facility. I spent a long time researching that lab and its state of the art, completely on par with others world wide.

The person who decided to conduct the research in lvl 2 conditions rather than 4 is ultimately to blame (assuming it came from there, which im leaning towards a yes)
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The lab may be state of the art but the scientist running the experiments did not use level 4. It was documented. Read the article I posted. I linked to a lot of good proof.

China does not have the same standards we do, despite trying to. I know people who worked in Chinese labs. The problem is that due to having an authoritarian environment, people don't report their superiors for violating safety protocols as much. There is a culture of keep your head down. So things that should be reported and then re-assessed don't get re-assessed.

It's just further proof that non-democracies are not great for good science.
 
It doesn't matter where the virus came from, at least not in the context of the current media debate over the issue. It is in America's political interests to place the blame on China. It's in China's political interests to place the blame elsewhere. Both nations have a long history of prolific lying when it suits their national interests. So the American investigations will blame China, and the Chinese ones exonerate China - and none of it makes a bit of difference except to obfuscate the real origin of the virus and hamper efforts to prevent such pandemics arising in the future.

This is politics, not science.
 
Foreigner said:
Cool, believe what you like. I think something shady is happening.
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That's not allowed here. You have to believe the CNN version of events or you're an anti-vaxxin conspiracy theorist who needs to just shut up, sit down, and roll your sleeve up for this shot of experimental miscellaneous debris that's mostly safe but if something goes wrong, don't look at us for a lawsuit because i guarantee you nothing since im not exactly sure either
 
Foreigner said:
The lab may be state of the art but the scientist running the experiments did not use level 4. It was documented. Read the article I posted. I linked to a lot of good proof.

China does not have the same standards we do, despite trying to. I know people who worked in Chinese labs. The problem is that due to having an authoritarian environment, people don't report their superiors for violating safety protocols as much. There is a culture of keep your head down. So things that should be reported and then re-assessed don't get re-assessed.

It's just further proof that non-democracies are not great for good science.
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I Know the culture very well having lived there myself man. Also re-read my post I said exactly what you said lol
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
That's not allowed here. You have to believe the CNN version of events or you're an anti-vaxxin conspiracy theorist who needs to just shut up, sit down, and roll your sleeve up for this shot of experimental miscellaneous debris that's mostly safe but if something goes wrong, don't look at us for a lawsuit because i guarantee you nothing since im not exactly sure either
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I don't actually have a problem with vaccinations as a rule. But the covid vaccinations are bad science. No phase IV trials, no long-term data? No thanks. The VAERS reports, which are likely only representative of 10% of all ADRs, are nutso. I will not be taking these experimental drugs. People are so fucking proud to be "doing their part" when we had other treatments all along: hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, even high dose vitamin D. All suppressed to push vaccinations. It's mind boggling.

And the way people are lining up around the block to get one, and then virtue signalling to the entire world that they went and got the vax. Hell, I saw an ad today for an airline that's offering discount flights if you can prove you were vaccinated. I hate this polarized environment. People are acting crazy.

It's funny how Fauci announced that people can take their masks off now AND that the CDC will no longer be tracking vaccinated people who get infected and show mild symptoms. Perfect timing... just as the India variant is infecting 20% of vaccinated people there like clockwork. They don't want to track mild cases in the U.S. because they don't want it revealed yet that the variants are infecting vaccinated people, because then people will think the vaccine is worthless (which it will be in 12 months) and not get the shot.

Covid isn't going away and there's not much they can do about it.
 
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Mr. Krinkle said:
That's not allowed here. You have to believe the CNN version of events or you're an anti-vaxxin conspiracy theorist who needs to just shut up, sit down, and roll your sleeve up for this shot of experimental miscellaneous debris that's mostly safe but if something goes wrong, don't look at us for a lawsuit because i guarantee you nothing since im not exactly sure either
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You're allowed to believe and post what you want, as long as it isn't bigotry or personal attacks. But yeah, you might get some passionate arguments against you,... but you know, being a discussion forum, that's sort of the point, isn't it? We don't censor people for posting stuff the mods don't agree with, as long as it isn't breaking any rules.
 
andyturbo said:
@Foreigner

China is a Super Power not a 3rd world country.
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To be fair, one with putative "3rd world conditions" in many of its peripheral regions.

I do take exception to the term "third world" in any case as a classification scheme - for in the case of China it's more along the lines of an ancient, greatly entrenched 'old world' culture that has a vast precedent for conducting itself at its fringes with ways of doing things that even the oversight of its own upper echelons might well view as out-modelled & out-moded.

China's nonetheless extremely centralized governing body, in contrast, has given priority that such vestigial backwater are allotted their attention in a continual process of rapid modernization & integration with, at the same time, an exponentially booming infrastructure. Despite which, China being so large, the amount of headway in such quarters being gained is equally impressive.
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
The bats it came from supposedly live over 1000 miles away from Wuhan...but there just happens to be a virology lab there that was dicking around with bat viruses
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no one knows where it came from. its probably never going to be known for certain at this point, because much like the human version, the bat version will have diverged from whichever strain was the one that made the jump and unlike in the human case we haven't been sequencing the fuck out of bats to see the progression.

do you have any idea how many labs are dicking about with viruses in some form or another? there are numerous in every university i've studied/worked at. there's probably several close to where you live. so, if a virus is first discovered in any major city, which is likely just because that's where the big hospitals tend to be, there will probably be some sort of virology lab studying viruses relevant to that locale nearby. not a coincidence.
 
It could have came from The wet market..
. Also could've came from thier lab. The Chinese govornment behavior both in the very early days of pandemic and now makes me suspicious that they also think it's a possibility.
 
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