PriestTheyCalledHim
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You were correct.
Police Brutality Thread
- Thread starter Anonymous Dissident
- Start date
aemetha
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You know what, the evidence in this case was overwhelming. The jury reached a decision on all charges in a very short time, suggesting there was little doubt to be resolved in their deliberations. The entire trial was broadcast publicly and opinion polls show that the public overwhelmingly thought he was guilty. For those waving the race issue around still - a majority of white, black and latino people all thought he was guilty. Heck, they even interviewed a bunch of cops about it and while they thought that the trial sucks because of how it reflects on police, most of them thought Chauvin was guilty.
If you support the police, and you reject the decisions of the courts, you are effectively saying you are for a police state. Honestly, most of the arguments against Chauvin's guilt are that Flloyd deserved to die. Maybe he did? Maybe he didn't? I don't know or care. What I do know is that decision is not, and never was Derick Chauvin's to make. That's what the jury decided too.
Frankly, sour grapes about this decision is pathetic. You're bitter because you didn't get what you want. Where I come from, kids that behave that way have their toys taken from them and have to sit by themselves because nobody wants to play with them. Kind of analogous to a cop in a protective-custody jail cell having been convicted of murder.
Zephyn
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Even the cops who i spoke to after the riots in May, said that they didn't support him, were glad he was arrested, etc. Cops in riot gear.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Does anyone NOT agree that it is reasonable, if not necessary, for justice to be exemplary? That it was right and correct for the state to make an example of Derek Chauvin in an attempt to reduce future offences by others? And that this is a part of what justice is all about i.e. the production of a just society?
America, and just about every other state, punishes people as a warning to others not to transgress. Justices needs to be public, not only to ensure that it is just but to ensure people understand the consequences of their potential actions. At least in democratic countries the one made an example of has the benefit of due process.
America, and just about every other state, punishes people as a warning to others not to transgress. Justices needs to be public, not only to ensure that it is just but to ensure people understand the consequences of their potential actions. At least in democratic countries the one made an example of has the benefit of due process.
cduggles
Bluelight Crew
Now come the other three:
www.reuters.com
Factbox: After Chauvin, Minnesota set to prosecute three other officers in Floyd murder
With the conviction of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd on Tuesday, prosecutors will begin turning their attention to making their case against three others who took part in the fatal arrest.
www.reuters.com
LordOfThisWorld
Bluelighter
They should go to jail with Chauvin, they did nothing to stop it.Now come the other three:
Factbox: After Chauvin, Minnesota set to prosecute three other officers in Floyd murder
With the conviction of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd on Tuesday, prosecutors will begin turning their attention to making their case against three others who took part in the fatal arrest.
Zephyn
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I don't want to agree, but in special circumstances like this cold blooded execution from a position of authority, yeah, I mean especially the people who do the leg work of their entire doctrine, which I can hardly support. I mean, 10% of what they do i can get behind, and in this case, this is one of them.
Its kind of a mindfuck for me, I mostly avoid thinking about it. I want to abolish prisons, what to do with seriously dangerous and violent people, idk.. I think at the very least they should be offered an option for euthanasia or their sentence.
Maybe offer them 3 options, a prison term, being exhiled to an island run by cannibal slave mongers, or euthanasia.
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
Chauvin being found guilty sets a good precedent and a bad one.
@Atelier3
I don't think we should "make examples" of people if reasonable doubt exists.
Chauvin being found guilty of all three charges in such a short period of time is, in my opinion, evidence of an unfair trial.
If the jury went back and forth and finally decided on one (or two) guilty verdicts, the situation would seem a bit fairer.
This isn't a black and white situation. There were numerous factors at play that made the situation complex and uncertain.
Chauvin is going to get more time than Floyd did when he pistol whipped a pregnant woman... That leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm conflicted. I don't want police to do what Chauvin did, but I also believe in reasonable doubt and I don't think he had a fair trial.
@Atelier3
I don't think we should "make examples" of people if reasonable doubt exists.
Chauvin being found guilty of all three charges in such a short period of time is, in my opinion, evidence of an unfair trial.
If the jury went back and forth and finally decided on one (or two) guilty verdicts, the situation would seem a bit fairer.
This isn't a black and white situation. There were numerous factors at play that made the situation complex and uncertain.
Chauvin is going to get more time than Floyd did when he pistol whipped a pregnant woman... That leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm conflicted. I don't want police to do what Chauvin did, but I also believe in reasonable doubt and I don't think he had a fair trial.
murder is a more serious crime than armed robbery and assault. he should receive a harsher sentence.
alasdair
aemetha
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Not at all. It reflects the overwhelming consensus that the case against Chauvin was much stronger than his defense.
Again, this is counter to the overwhelming consensus of opinion. With respect, you have the right to disagree and I won't tell you how to think. I do suggest you re-evaluate your position relative to that of most other people though. Most people would find what you suggest less fair. Even most cops think he was guilty.
No situation is black and white. All situations are complex. It's your need for certainty that is causing this discontent with the outcome. I tried to explain previously, certainty is not the standard. Beyond reasonable doubt is the standard. That being the standard explicitly makes clear that certainty is not required. It is the job of the defense to introduce complexity and doubt. It is the job of the jury to assess that complexity and doubt and determine if it meets the standard "reasonable doubt". They did that and found that it didn't in this case.
I don't understand this argument. It's not relevant. Flloyd wasn't on trial here for pistol whipping someone. Chauvin was on trial for killing Flloyd. Lady Justice is blind. She doesn't care what Flloyd did in Chauvin's trial. She doesn't care what Chauvin did in Flloyd's trial. They were separate incidents to be adjudicated separately.
I certainly empathize with your quest for certainty. Don't dwell on it though, you've argued your side passionately throughout this thread. I think you do need to acknowledge that the standards you have in mind just aren't what the majority of people agree with. That needn't feel "right" or "fair". In a perfect world, certainty would be what we work with at all times. It isn't a perfect world though. Perhaps you have a bit of idealist to you, I say that as a compliment. Idealism is a good thing, but it can, sometimes, make things harder or less practical. What do you think?
PriestTheyCalledHim
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There was doubt as in the autopsy report of George Floyd he had taken enough fentanyl and opiates to overdose and die, he was saying he 'cannot breathe' before he is out of the vehicle, and Floyd asked and consented to be put onto the ground and overdosed and died from the fentanyl/opiates.
Other violent criminals like George Floyd was-Floyd attacked and would have murdered the woman he robbed and threatened with a gun and cared more about getting high on opiates, METH, and crack than his children- were put into the same position for the same amount of time, and did not die from it.
PriestTheyCalledHim
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True it was not a fair trial.
The media threaten to release the names of the jurors if Officer Chauvin was not found guilty on all counts. Maxine Waters also threaten the American people about what would happen if Officer Chauvin was not founded guilty. A blood head of a pig was place in a witness house to intimate these people from telling the truth.
Pig's head left at former home of Chauvin defense witness
Vandals left a pig’s head at the one-time California home of a use-of-force expert who testified on behalf of the officer accused of killing George Floyd, police said ...
A Utah Reporter dox a paramedic who donated $10 to Kyle Rittenhouse defense fund. Releasing his house address, the picture of his front house, his name, and etc...
Utah ABC affiliate doxes paramedic & sends crew to his house, after hack reveals he donated $10 to a Kyle Rittenhouse defense fund
A Utah paramedic who donated $10 to a legal defense fund for Kyle Rittenhouse, the teen who shot three Wisconsin rioters, allegedly in self-defense, has been outed as some kind of villain by Salt Lake City's ABC TV affiliate.
This isn't justice, this is dictatorship. Juries should have been sequestered but why? This is the U.S, not Eritrea or communist China. Why do jurors have to be afraid for their lives? BLM plan to burn, loot, and kill more people if Chauvin is found innocent, which makes them the real murderer and domestic terrorist.
BLM or burn loot murder, is the biggest domestic terrorist group in the U.S currently.
Kaden_Nite
Bluelight Crew
It's as if this jury focused on what happened rather than a bunch of hypothetical what-ifs..
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Some people are arguing that the trial was not fair to Chauvin. However the trial does not take place in a vacuum and public discussion about the case is unavoidable as are attempts by interested parties to influence the outcome by influencing the discourse. This is the orincipal reason why juries are sequestered (not for their protection, but so their field of vision and their judgement is limited to the case and they are kept away from the broader public discourse).
Can anyone point to where Chauvin had been unreasonably denied either due process or natural justice as commonly understood in the American judicial system?
What was uniquely unfair to Chauvin (as opposed to a systemic injustice all accused persons face in the US when before the courts)?
Can anyone point to where Chauvin had been unreasonably denied either due process or natural justice as commonly understood in the American judicial system?
What was uniquely unfair to Chauvin (as opposed to a systemic injustice all accused persons face in the US when before the courts)?
there can be doubt. but, the bar in a criminal proceeding is 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. the jury determined that chauvin murdered floyd, beyond a reasonable doubt.
you know better than the county medical examiner.
you now know better than the trial jury?
you keep repeating that but it's not accepted as fact. it's your opinion, and certainly an opinion to which you are entitled. but your opinion is irrelevant.
for now, chauvin is guilty of murdering george floyd. not my opinion. that is a fact.
alasdair
Phoenix_03
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BLM wouldn't exist if people like George Floyd weren't "accidentally" killed by cops a liiiiittle too often.True it was not a fair trial.
The media threaten to release the names of the jurors if Officer Chauvin was not found guilty on all counts. Maxine Waters also threaten the American people about what would happen if Officer Chauvin was not founded guilty. A blood head of a pig was place in a witness house to intimate these people from telling the truth.
Pig's head left at former home of Chauvin defense witness
Vandals left a pig’s head at the one-time California home of a use-of-force expert who testified on behalf of the officer accused of killing George Floyd, police said ...www.kstp.com
A Utah Reporter dox a paramedic who donated $10 to Kyle Rittenhouse defense fund. Releasing his house address, the picture of his front house, his name, and etc...
Utah ABC affiliate doxes paramedic & sends crew to his house, after hack reveals he donated $10 to a Kyle Rittenhouse defense fund
A Utah paramedic who donated $10 to a legal defense fund for Kyle Rittenhouse, the teen who shot three Wisconsin rioters, allegedly in self-defense, has been outed as some kind of villain by Salt Lake City's ABC TV affiliate.www.rt.com
This isn't justice, this is dictatorship. Juries should have been sequestered but why? This is the U.S, not Eritrea or communist China. Why do jurors have to be afraid for their lives? BLM plan to burn, loot, and kill more people if Chauvin is found innocent, which makes them the real murderer and domestic terrorist.
BLM or burn loot murder, is the biggest domestic terrorist group in the U.S currently.
PriestTheyCalledHim
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George Floyd died of an overdose of fentanyl/other opiates and METH.
IF you want an actual rare example of someone dying from police and being completely innocent, look at Elijah McClain that I mentioned earlier. He was black, gay, and 'on the spectrum'.
Phoenix_03
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Anyone dying at the hands of the police while cuffed and restrained is innocent. Shit, anyone dying by their hand at ALL.
PriestTheyCalledHim
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Chauvin wanted to plead to 3rd degree murder or manslaughter but this was not allowed.
The jurors knew the danger they were in, and were afraid. The jury should have been sequestered or completely private and the media not allowed to film or broadcast the trial, jury, etc.
AG Barr quashed plea deal by fired officer in George Floyd death
As part of the failed deal, Derek Chauvin was willing to go to jail for more than 10 years.
www.nbcnews.com