Police Brutality Thread

[Zephyn]

Hearing a junky call this guy "fetanyl floyd" when there is such clear evidence of his being murdered is the epitome of boot licking

 

[dalpat077]

Well this thread took off like a rocket overnight!

Cannot say that I've too much to add though. Maybe just a little. Besides. Got things to do. I'm supposed to be aiding and abetting the takeover of the so-called free world. Not to mention nursing my little hobbies. And, unfortunately, I'm not known for my ability to multitask!

Watching the body cam footage (again) as posted by @PriestTheyCalledHim and @The Wizard of the Creek gave me reason to pause this morning (after reading through all of the overnight posts).

On the one hand: you want to reach into the screen, mere seconds before the 20:25:00 mark, and haul Officer Chauvin off if for no other reason than to just see if Mr. Floyd had calmed the fuck down already. The one officer even clearly says "I think he's passin' out" at 20:24:45. Probably a few seconds, a minute at best, that could have changed the course of history and avoided a whole pile of shit. At around that time: Mr. Floyd could have been given CPR were it necessary. Unless his heart just packed in and there was no going back from that maybe. Dunno. Not a medical professional. The caveat here being: now all being seen after the fact i.e. knowing what the end result was going to be. I'm unsure as to whether I'd maintain the same stance were I watching this play out in real time or was a police officer and under the same pressure as those police officers.

On the other hand and just for good measure: I went on to watch some other videos on the channel (some of which I've seen before). And in spite of the above I still come back to the same thing no matter what. All of these individuals that have gotten nailed, including those others that have been mentioned on this thread, have at very least one thing in common i.e. resisting arrest or, best case scenario, simply giving the cops shit when they knew full well that a) they were committing a crime and/or b) were under the influence. And I'm not going to be PC about this i.e. I'm getting sick and tired of it. Narcotics plays a part. It is what it is. Deal with it.

And I'll tell you this much too: it is a sad state of affairs. Big fit strapping dude like George Floyd? Dare I even say relatively good looking? Dude like that, for some reason, I can picture as having had a following of youngsters, training them (boxing or whatever his pleasure), coaching them, preparing them for life. They would have looked up to him. But something upset the apple cart at some point in his life. And here we all are today. He made certain choices, probably some years back, and ended up paying the price.

There's no point really in discussing what should have happened or what could have been done differently by the police officers. Off the top of my head, and of course with hindsight as noted above, there's any number of things that could have been done differently and that would not have resulted in this outcome. But this of no consequence now.

If I were a Juror on this trial: my take would be that it's such a cluster fuck and shit show that I'd acquit Officer Chauvin and the other police officers and be done with it. As a Juror: I'd never be sure as to what the exact cause of death was no matter how either side has done their best to coerce me with testimony from experts. I don't believe that Officer Chauvin meant to kill Mr. Floyd. And at the end of the day: while it may be no consolation the family has been paid out a handsome sum (and I'm sure there'll be more to come). Far more than Mr. Floyd would ever have made in ten lifetimes (assuming he didn't clean up his act at some point). I suppose I'd try and leave the situation in a better state of affairs than I found it. Crucifying the police officers for doing their job isn't going to bring Mr. Floyd back. And I put it to you that doing so will add fuel to the fire insofar as the racial issues are concerned. I know that sounds counter intuitive because if these police officers are indeed acquitted the shit is going to hit the fan big time. Put this another way: crucifying these police officers is going to add fuel to future fires. Matter of fact those fires are already burning and we're not even done with this trial. And this because of the actions, as we know, of this other choice individual Mr. Daunte Wright. The police officer in his case made a mistake and that's all there is to it. I've looked this up. She isn't the first and she probably will not be the last to make such a mistake. And unless it can be proved that she had some other motive for her actions: nobody is going to convince me that she'd throw away a distinguished and lengthy career for the sake of a traffic stop gone wrong and simply had it in for a person of color.

I put it to you also that by crucifying or vilifying police officers and glorifying the likes of these individuals: a dangerous precedent has already been established. Especially when it comes to race. And not to mention reward. I also cannot help but wonder if this reward system isn't already being abused. It seems to be getting to the point that you can sue the police for even looking at you sideways or if you don't like their tone. And this, by the way, isn't only applicable to people of color it would seem. Spend some time going through some of the body cam footage on the police channel and you'll see clearly what I mean. These incidents don't just happen to people of color. They happen to all that try to fuck with the officers or, worse still, try to kill them. I'm guessing though that the other incidents MAYBE made the local TV news. And I suppose from here we could get into another shit show as to just how much of a part the mainstream media plays in fueling the racial fires and tensions. Fun fact: over here our media is prohibited, BY LAW no less, from mentioning the color of a person, or persons, involved in these types of incidents. And believe me when I say: it DOES make a difference. Personal opinion: you've gone WAY too far over the years when it comes to rights and liberty and the rest. And it's now come home to roost.

As a side note: I cannot get a certain image out of my mind i.e. I wonder if these officers would have done anything differently were it a white man the likes of Duane Chapman (not personally but in stature and playing up and under the influence). I think their actions would have been the same (if not the outcome due to medical reasons and other related complications). Conversely: what if the whole bunch were Mike Tyson clones? Bearing in mind we're not talking about picking out random suspects based on color prior to any crime having been committed i.e. the race of the perpetrator only having been determined during, or after, a crime has already been committed and intervention is required (by law enforcement). By that stage: the cards were already in play before any race had been determined. So somebody is pushing a narrative to suit. And it's not without its consequences.

And fuck me. For somebody that didn't have too much to add I've done a stellar job have I not! Oh well. If nothing else: a lot of thought went into this post i.e. entire fucking morning (five hours give or take) (including, though, watching video footage and analyzing, in detail, footage of this incident once again).

Anyway. Will wait for the outcome of the trial(s) i.e. I don't see as there's anything new that could change my stance on any of the above. In the meantime: anybody know how my Boss & Co. are getting on i.e. Ukraine still in one piece? Taiwan still a sovereign nation? Chinese annexed South America and taken all the Coca plants yet? Don't answer. Better I go check for myself.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Wow. "Fentanyl Floyd". And that's a nice patch-work of nonsense.

I'm just gonna back away, because this is like walking in on your parents fucking;
it's awkward and I want to rub my eyes with bleach.

But you soldier on with that keyboard and those convictions.
Some of us drive our own cars to work, and some of us gets a ride. I can break that down if you want me to.

xoxo

There's always one in the crowd isn't there. Doesn't matter what facts are put before them their beliefs and biases always convince them they are right.

Responding to them is a bit like playing hide and seek by yourself.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

There's always one in the crowd isn't there. Doesn't matter what facts are put before them their beliefs and biases always convince them they are right.

Responding to them is a bit like playing hide and seek by yourself.

I've had better luck sucking my own dick!

 

[Nurse Ratched]

@PriestTheyCalledHim
It’s obvious from your posts that you are synthesizing hearsay, conspiracy theories, and rumors to suit your racist and slanted narrative. You actually used the Daily Mail as a source and dare to question where other people get their news? It’s laughable.
And I pretty much automatically ignore people who use nicknames like “Fentanyl Floyd”, but as I am a mod and this is a harm reduction site for substance users, I am compelled to read and comment.
In your posts, you show both ignorance and insensitivity about drug use and towards drug users, which is ironic to say the least. While a lack of knowledge isn’t against any rules, such ignorance should be pointed out, as it has, and exposed for what it is, which is anathema to the core mission of BL.
And just because you use the vague “they” when referring to black people, somewhat oblique terms like “ghetto lottery”, and attribute the decline of a city to a change from a white European to a black African population all without directly stating that you think black people are inferior, it’s clear that you do. And that, my dear, is racism plain and simple.
And it’s just incomprehensible that you would compare consensual sex play to overzealous, violent restraint that resulted in a death.
It’s not that difficult to see where you are coming from, and I think it’s a pretty ugly place.

I feel very sad, dirty and even a little sick to my stomach reading his posts. Being filled with so much hate for black people has to be a deep soul crushing emptiness. Those feelings must pervade their every action in life and I am thankful I don't know anyone like him in real life.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I've had better luck sucking my own dick!

How's it going this morning tubbie? Still hangin' in there? You got this. I'm referencing your recovery efforts, not your dick sucking abilities. !

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Still here causing shit! Thank you pumpkin!

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Reminder to everyone: overtly racist rhetoric will not be tolerated. You are free to be racist , but you will not use Bluelight to promote your views and bait other posters.

Also we need to get back on topic. The trial.

Many thanks for the intervention and reminder.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

We can agree to disagree, but I'm not splitting hairs. The defense has not offered any alternative explanations for his death which I have found plausible.

Agreed

 

[MsDiz]

Well this thread took off like a rocket overnight!

Cannot say that I've too much to add though. Maybe just a little. Besides. Got things to do. I'm supposed to be aiding and abetting the takeover of the so-called free world. Not to mention nursing my little hobbies. And, unfortunately, I'm not known for my ability to multitask!

Watching the body cam footage (again) as posted by @PriestTheyCalledHim and @The Wizard of the Creek gave me reason to pause this morning (after reading through all of the overnight posts).

On the one hand: you want to reach into the screen, mere seconds before the 20:25:00 mark, and haul Officer Chauvin off if for no other reason than to just see if Mr. Floyd had calmed the fuck down already. The one officer even clearly says "I think he's passin' out" at 20:24:45. Probably a few seconds, a minute at best, that could have changed the course of history and avoided a whole pile of shit. At around that time: Mr. Floyd could have been given CPR were it necessary. Unless his heart just packed in and there was no going back from that maybe. Dunno. Not a medical professional. The caveat here being: now all being seen after the fact i.e. knowing what the end result was going to be. I'm unsure as to whether I'd maintain the same stance were I watching this play out in real time or was a police officer and under the same pressure as those police officers.

On the other hand and just for good measure: I went on to watch some other videos on the channel (some of which I've seen before). And in spite of the above I still come back to the same thing no matter what. All of these individuals that have gotten nailed, including those others that have been mentioned on this thread, have at very least one thing in common i.e. resisting arrest or, best case scenario, simply giving the cops shit when they knew full well that a) they were committing a crime and/or b) were under the influence. And I'm not going to be PC about this i.e. I'm getting sick and tired of it. Narcotics plays a part. It is what it is. Deal with it.

And I'll tell you this much too: it is a sad state of affairs. Big fit strapping dude like George Floyd? Dare I even say relatively good looking? Dude like that, for some reason, I can picture as having had a following of youngsters, training them (boxing or whatever his pleasure), coaching them, preparing them for life. They would have looked up to him. But something upset the apple cart at some point in his life. And here we all are today. He made certain choices, probably some years back, and ended up paying the price.

There's no point really in discussing what should have happened or what could have been done differently by the police officers. Off the top of my head, and of course with hindsight as noted above, there's any number of things that could have been done differently and that would not have resulted in this outcome. But this of no consequence now.

If I were a Juror on this trial: my take would be that it's such a cluster fuck and shit show that I'd acquit Officer Chauvin and the other police officers and be done with it. As a Juror: I'd never be sure as to what the exact cause of death was no matter how either side has done their best to coerce me with testimony from experts. I don't believe that Officer Chauvin meant to kill Mr. Floyd. And at the end of the day: while it may be no consolation the family has been paid out a handsome sum (and I'm sure there'll be more to come). Far more than Mr. Floyd would ever have made in ten lifetimes (assuming he didn't clean up his act at some point). I suppose I'd try and leave the situation in a better state of affairs than I found it. Crucifying the police officers for doing their job isn't going to bring Mr. Floyd back. And I put it to you that doing so will add fuel to the fire insofar as the racial issues are concerned. I know that sounds counter intuitive because if these police officers are indeed acquitted the shit is going to hit the fan big time. Put this another way: crucifying these police officers is going to add fuel to future fires. Matter of fact those fires are already burning and we're not even done with this trial. And this because of the actions, as we know, of this other choice individual Mr. Daunte Wright. The police officer in his case made a mistake and that's all there is to it. I've looked this up. She isn't the first and she probably will not be the last to make such a mistake. And unless it can be proved that she had some other motive for her actions: nobody is going to convince me that she'd throw away a distinguished and lengthy career for the sake of a traffic stop gone wrong and simply had it in for a person of color.

I put it to you also that by crucifying or vilifying police officers and glorifying the likes of these individuals: a dangerous precedent has already been established. Especially when it comes to race. And not to mention reward. I also cannot help but wonder if this reward system isn't already being abused. It seems to be getting to the point that you can sue the police for even looking at you sideways or if you don't like their tone. And this, by the way, isn't only applicable to people of color it would seem. Spend some time going through some of the body cam footage on the police channel and you'll see clearly what I mean. These incidents don't just happen to people of color. They happen to all that try to fuck with the officers or, worse still, try to kill them. I'm guessing though that the other incidents MAYBE made the local TV news. And I suppose from here we could get into another shit show as to just how much of a part the mainstream media plays in fueling the racial fires and tensions. Fun fact: over here our media is prohibited, BY LAW no less, from mentioning the color of a person, or persons, involved in these types of incidents. And believe me when I say: it DOES make a difference. Personal opinion: you've gone WAY too far over the years when it comes to rights and liberty and the rest. And it's now come home to roost.

As a side note: I cannot get a certain image out of my mind i.e. I wonder if these officers would have done anything differently were it a white man the likes of Duane Chapman (not personally but in stature and playing up and under the influence). I think their actions would have been the same (if not the outcome due to medical reasons and other related complications). Conversely: what if the whole bunch were Mike Tyson clones? Bearing in mind we're not talking about picking out random suspects based on color prior to any crime having been committed i.e. the race of the perpetrator only having been determined during, or after, a crime has already been committed and intervention is required (by law enforcement). By that stage: the cards were already in play before any race had been determined. So somebody is pushing a narrative to suit. And it's not without its consequences.

In closing let me tell you a secret: coming to terms with race issues has liberated me and in ways you cannot imagine. The irony: direct result of these forums and the members here and our many fruitful discussions and debates. Give it up. Or you too will be looking back someday and saying "what a fucking waste of time and energy". And believe me: if somebody like me can arrive at this point then anybody can.

And fuck me. For somebody that didn't have too much to add I've done a stellar job have I not! Oh well. If nothing else: a lot of thought went into this post i.e. entire fucking morning (five hours give or take) (including, though, watching video footage and analyzing, in detail, footage of this incident once again).

Anyway. Will wait for the outcome of the trial(s) i.e. I don't see as there's anything new that could change my stance on any of the above. In the meantime: anybody know how my Boss & Co. are getting on i.e. Ukraine still in one piece? Taiwan still a sovereign nation? Chinese annexed South America and taken all the Coca plants yet? Don't answer. Better I go check for myself.

Ya'll look after yourselves. And don't be mean to each other!

Thank fuck you’re not a juror then. I honestly think if you listened to the prosecutions pathologist and don’t believe that the officer caused death then you must have nothing but air in your head. The defense’s pathologist was a bloody idiot who couldn’t even pronounce medical terms correctly. He’s also got history of a very similar case and also coming to the incorrect conclusion. He is old and sad and being paid. He’s also really fucking wrong and that was clear as day.

I did think you had more brains but you’re letting your beliefs get in the way, big time. Shame.

You constantly say you’ve reconciled your postion on race but it’s clear where you lie on it. Very clear.

 

[alasdairm]

I don't believe that Officer Chauvin meant to kill Mr. Floyd.

i understand that hypotheticals really just muddy discussion but they can sometimes inform discussion.

if your child was killed by a drunk driver would you be ok with seeing them suffer no consequences because they didn't mean to do it?

Crucifying the police officers for doing their job isn't going to bring Mr. Floyd back.

of course it's not. but action may prevent it happening again.

The police officer in his case made a mistake and that's all there is to it.

you seem to be implying that there should be no consequences? an officer mistakes a taser for a handgun and kills a person. hey, they made a mistake and that's all there is to it. let's just accpt that and move on?

alasdair

 

[dalpat077]

Thank fuck you’re not a juror then. I honestly think if you listened to the prosecutions pathologist and don’t believe that the officer caused death then you must have nothing but air in your head. The defense’s pathologist was a bloody idiot who couldn’t even pronounce medical terms correctly. He’s also got history of a very similar case and also coming to the incorrect conclusion. He is old and sad and being paid. He’s also really fucking wrong and that was clear as day.

Couldn't even pronounce medical terms correctly? Um. Oh yes. "Paraganglioma". Once. Fumbled over it once. What a waste. All those years of experience and education for naught because he fumbled over one medical term. Once. When you watch something is it just in the background or do you actually analyze it and watch? Because I've just done that. Again.

Fentanyl. You and I both know that I know how and why Fentanyl kills right? Respiratory failure right? Feel free to correct me Ms. PhD. Now maybe you missed this. But as was noted by the good pathologist that you seem to take issue with because of his horrific fumble: one would expect for Mr. Floyd's rate of breathing to increase (shoot me for not using the correct medical terminology and I'm not going to go back and find it either) if he was short on oxygen as would be the case with any other individual. That is how the body, under normal circumstances, would respond. That didn't happen. According to the good pathologist there: it is his opinion that it stayed the same. I'm not entirely sure I agree with him on that i.e. I've now watched that body cam footage again to be sure. Mr. Floyd was "slowing down", for want of a better phrase, toward the end. Who knows? Was he just getting tired and running out of steam? He'd been at it for a good while by that time let's face it. Did the Fentanyl play a role? Did his underlying health play a part? Was it all of these factors combined? C'mon. You're the one with the degrees. You tell me. You tell me with an absolute certainty that you can know, from all of the medical testimony, what the cause of his death was from a clinical perspective. Because in my book: it's either absolute certainty or reasonable doubt. You cannot have it both ways.

Oh and let's not forget about the Meth. shall we. Albeit, apparently, at the same levels as would be a therapeutic dose by that time: that couldn't have played a part too? Dunno. This dumb fuck over here has sure done some research on this over the past year. Fentanyl and Meth. not a good combination. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you that. So again: you tell me with an absolute certainty that you can know, from all of the medical testimony, what the cause of his death was from a clinical perspective. Because in my book: it's either absolute certainty or reasonable doubt. You cannot have it both ways.

Would Mr. Floyd be alive today were it not for the actions of these officers and the way things were handled? Probably. Would Mr. Floyd be alive today if he'd not passed a fake note to the cashier? Probably. Would Mr. Floyd be alive today had he not conducted his life in the manner that he did? Probably. How fucking far back do you want me to go with this?

Did Mr. Floyd end up with the officers pinning him down because he couldn't control himself (for whatever the reasons) and tried to resist arrest by any means possible (whether knowingly or unknowingly? Definitely.

Would that other individual, shot yesterday or the day before, be alive today had he not decided to try and make a getaway? Yes he would. Well. Who knows. Maybe he'd have rammed somebody in his car and killed and innocent person and himself in the process. Come to think of it: wonder what people would have had to say about the police officers should that have been the case? Anyway. Would a police officer, and her family, now be in danger and have her career thrown out of the window? No.

And (touching on witness testimony in this case again): do I have to remind you that witnesses are carefully chosen by each side. Maybe the defense dropped the ball on this witness. Or was the best witness they could get. Or maybe the only one that would be objective and didn't feel intimidated. Because we all know what just about everyone WANTS to hear. Maybe the prosecutor is a better and sharper lawyer.

I did think you had more brains but you’re letting your beliefs get in the way, big time. Shame.

You constantly say you’ve reconciled your postion on race but it’s clear where you lie on it. Very clear.

Feel free to continue pushing the race narrative. It's really not my problem so I'm not quite sure what I was thinking actually. But keep it up. That was one of my main points in my post of this morning. I couldn't care less who was what color in this incident. A criminal, regardless of race or color, resisted arrest, and was high as a kite (to what degree I know not). I noted this before. Before any of this happened and while Mr. Floyd & Co. were in the store: take a good look at the store CCTV footage. Did their behavior seem normal to you? Didn't to me. How many fucking times do you have to count the cash in your hand or stand and stare at it? At one point in said CCTV footage: Mr. Floyd looked decidedly off balance to me. From the time that Mr. Floyd was initially taken into custody: did his behavior seem normal or rational to you? It was either abnormal or he wasn't quite with it or it was dramatics. Or all three.

I'm not going to ask my question again re: absolute certainties after noting the above. I think you get the picture.

This post edited i.e. upon second thought what was originally contained herein is off topic and irrelevant and frankly not something I have to justify to anyone. Let's just say I've reconciled my position on race just fine to what suits me and my situation and my country and its allies.

 

[Zephyn]

If you've ever seen a fetanyl overdose, you would know Floyd certainly wasn't having one in that video.

 

[dalpat077]

if your child was killed by a drunk driver would you be ok with seeing them suffer no consequences because they didn't mean to do it?

Nope. Definitely not. Why? Because said drunk driver made the choice of getting drunk and getting behind the wheel. And which, especially here now i.e. ZERO alcohol limit, is against the law.

of course it's not. but action may prevent it happening again.

Agreed. I suppose in my world I'd like to think that because of this trial all of the police procedures and training will be scrutinized and under a microscope and will be improved upon. Should that be the case: then good will have come out of this. And if Officer Chauvin were acquitted and allowed back on the force: I'm pretty darn sure he'd think twice the next time. Throwing him and the other officers to the wolves isn't going to accomplish anything more.

you seem to be implying that there should be no consequences? an officer mistakes a taser for a handgun and kills a person. hey, they made a mistake and that's all there is to it. let's just accpt that and move on?

Well.. This is a difficult one to be honest. Do I think there should be NO consequences? No I don't. But do I think that her entire life and career should be written off as a result? No to that too. So maybe it comes down to financial compensation is as best as it's going to get? I don't have that answer. Will it, this time, result in, again, scrutiny of police procedures etc.? Well hopefully so. One thing that's come to the fore is where these officers place their tasers relative to their service weapons. But I could make the argument, at very least on her behalf, that this isn't the first time this has happened and for, possibly, the same reasons. So who is actually at fault? The police officer? Or those that SHOULD have gone through these procedures after the preceding incident and made the necessary changes.

 

[dalpat077]

If you've ever seen a fetanyl overdose, you would know Floyd certainly wasn't having one in that video.

Never said he overdosed. But there was Fentanyl in his system. And I do know what that's like. And that could have contributed, clinically, to his death. And my point being: there isn't a person on this planet that can pinpoint a single factor that led to his death. To say lack of oxygen: yes. Maybe. But was it one factor or several that contributed to said lack of oxygen? Or possibly even a heart attack? All of these things, put together, with the stress of the situation, and the entire list of other things that happened? No one cause. Not any one cause that anybody could lay their life upon anyway. And that's good enough for me.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Never said he overdosed. But there was Fentanyl in his system. And I do know what that's like. And that could have contributed, clinically, to his death. And my point being: there isn't a person on this planet that can pinpoint a single factor that led to his death. To say lack of oxygen: yes. Maybe. But was it one factor or several that contributed to said lack of oxygen? Or possibly even a heart attack? All of these things, put together, with the stress of the situation, and the entire list of other things that happened? No one cause. Not any one cause that anybody could lay their life upon anyway. And that's good enough for me.

Good afternoon ( or is it evening there )? Good point as Floyd certainly had some health problems. A myriad of them. And they were all contributing to his resolve in surviving all the external things that were happening to him. We can all get lost in the Pulmonology, Cardiology, Forensic Pathology, and all the other ology testimony. We can only assume that they know more than we do when they give their opinions and findings. I thought the South African did quite well and am sorry you had to defend his goof on the one word. He threw out some good reasonable doubt but because of his desire to explain everything and not stick to short and direct answers, the Prosecution was able to gather a veritable smorgasboard of items to impeach him on cross.

Unfortunately Chauvin chose not to testify and shed some light on this but I expected that.

The jury ( after closing arguments on Monday ) won't know EXACTLY how Floyd died any more than we do. Will they believe all the 'ology experts. I think they will. I believe the Defense dropped the ball here in that the witnesses were just not believable. The first 3 were a fiasco and the last 3 were a bit better but not much. The prosecution took 2 and a half weeks. The defense took a day and a half. Go figure. I think you made some good points. Until Monday have a great weekend and get those damn chores done

 

[alasdairm]

Because said drunk driver made the choice of getting drunk and getting behind the wheel. And which, especially here now i.e. ZERO alcohol limit, is against the law.

chauvin chose his actions too. he chose to kneel on george floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

Throwing him and the other officers to the wolves

he's not been thrown to the wolves. he's being given his constitutionally protected due process. due process which george floyd did not receive.

But do I think that her entire life and career should be written off as a result? No to that too.

again, she's receiving due process. due process which daunte wright did not receive.

alasdair

 

[MsDiz]

Couldn't even pronounce medical terms correctly? Um. Oh yes. "Paraganglioma". Once. Fumbled over it once. What a waste. All those years of experience and education for naught because he fumbled over one medical term. Once.

He sounded like an idiot and his testimony lived up to that level tbh.

Fentanyl. You and I both know that I know how and why Fentanyl kills right? Respiratory failure right? Feel free to correct me Ms. PhD. Now maybe you missed this. But as was noted by the good pathologist that you seem to take issue with because of his horrific fumble: one would expect for Mr. Floyd's rate of breathing to increase (shoot me for not using the correct medical terminology and I'm not going to go back and find it either) if he was short on oxygen as would be the case with any other individual. That is how the body, under normal circumstances, would respond. That didn't happen. According to the good pathologist there: it is his opinion that it stayed the same. I'm not entirely sure I agree with him on that i.e. I've now watched that body cam footage again to be sure. Mr. Floyd was "slowing down", for want of a better phrase, toward the end. Who knows? Was he just getting tired and running out of steam? He'd been at it for a good while by that time let's face it. Did the Fentanyl play a role? Did his underlying health play a part? Was it all of these factors combined? C'mon. You're the one with the degrees. You tell me. You tell me with an absolute certainty that you can know, from all of the medical testimony, what the cause of his death was from a clinical perspective. Because in my book: it's either absolute certainty or reasonable doubt. You cannot have it both ways

The level of fentanyl in this case means nothing. He wasn’t ODing from fent, the meth has no bearing on anything either. It was such a small amount. When he was first seen against the wall and handcuffed he was chatting, spelling both his first and last name. There was zero evidence those drugs were having any effect. His breathing rate was something like 22bpm which is normal.

When someone is short on oxygen it very much depends on the situation (in regards to breathing rate). In his situation he couldn’t increase his breathing rate because he had something heavy on his back/neck. His killer. He did have hypoxic seizures which could be seen and which were noted by both pathologists. That was one sign he was low on oxygen. His breathing rate slowed, another sign of his low oxygen, his voice became thicker and heavier, yet another sign. It was CLEAR to bypassers even, that he was in danger of dying. His death was clearly and obviously due to insufficient oxygen caused by Chauvin’s extended hold on Floyd’s neck. Had he stopped his excessive force when his partner told him that Floyd had passed out then maybe Floyd would still be alive.

People keep mentioning Floyd’s health like it matters. It doesn’t. It wouldn’t have mattered if the person under Chauvin’s excessive force had end stage cancer. The cause of death is suffocation, insufficient oxygen.

Would Mr. Floyd be alive today if he'd not passed a fake note to the cashier? Probably. Would Mr. Floyd be alive today had he not conducted his life in the manner that he did? Probably. How fucking far back do you want me to go with this?

A fake $20... Do you realise how desperately sad this all is. It’s over something so ridiculous. Something that did not warrant the treatment he got.

I don’t care what kind of person Floyd was. Why does it matter? Really like? At the end of the day it wasn’t Chauvin’s place to punish Floyd for anything. It was his place to bring him in to custody. That is it. He used excessive force for a crime that wasn’t even violent. On a guy who was compliant after putting him into that hold and having 3 other officers beside him for support. Chauvin wasn’t under pressure from anyone. The crowd were standing back although they were expressing concern. Like any normal person would when they see someone being suffocated.

I honestly, truly, can not understand how anyone can watch the footage of what happened George Floyd and not realise that the officer was at fault.

You’ve already said @dalpat077 that you think he didn’t mean to kill him. That still means you believe he killed him, which he did. That’s manslaughter, at the very least. He deserves to be punished.

How can anyone watch from the moment floyd loses consciousness, the officer noting that to Chauvin, and him still putting pressure on Floyds neck for several more minutes and believe he wasn’t unfairly treated??? How??

Chauvin knew he had passed out but he kept up the pressure right until an EMT had to tell him enough. He has a personality disorder for sure. He is a killer. End of.

And if there's any way I can play a part in improving the situation, as opposed to just sitting back and bitching and squealing and generalizing and playing the race card every time something goes wrong, and by whatever means necessary, well then I hope to do it. By any means necessary. And if that puts me in the firing line: well so be it. It's a choice I've made

If you were in America you’d be a ok. They let a white guy who had killed several people walk on whilst holding up his weapons.

They suffocated a black guy for giving a fake $20 note and a female officer killed another black guy who was on the phone to his mummy.

 

[dalpat077]

chauvin chose his actions too. he chose to kneel on george floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

Well I cannot argue with the semantics let's face it. And as I noted this morning: it's a sad state of affairs all around actually. Not much more I can say without rehashing or repeating a whole bunch of stuff that I'm sure you, and others, have already tired of.

he's not been thrown to the wolves. he's being given his constitutionally protected due process. due process which george floyd did not receive.

again, she's receiving due process. due process which daunte wright did not receive.

Well. You're right here too. I guess I'm jumping the gun and already assuming outcomes. In the case of the two deceased individuals though: their very actions precluded them from receiving due process. I'm sorry but I cannot be swayed on this. I don't know if you have wasted the amount of time that I have on this or if you will or if you need to. But please believe me when I say that there are other multiple examples, as per body cam footage, where the very same outcome was the result and all had one common denominator at least i.e. let's call it failure to comply (in one form or another). People cannot, surely, be encouraged to simply ignore law enforcement or fail to comply at their will. Otherwise there's little to no point in even having a police force in the first place.

 

[dalpat077]

Good afternoon ( or is it evening there )? Good point as Floyd certainly had some health problems. A myriad of them. And they were all contributing to his resolve in surviving all the external things that were happening to him. We can all get lost in the Pulmonology, Cardiology, Forensic Pathology, and all the other ology testimony. We can only assume that they know more than we do when they give their opinions and findings. I thought the South African did quite well and am sorry you had to defend his goof on the one word. He threw out some good reasonable doubt but because of his desire to explain everything and not stick to short and direct answers, the Prosecution was able to gather a veritable smorgasboard of items to impeach him on cross.

Unfortunately Chauvin chose not to testify and shed some light on this but I expected that.

The jury ( after closing arguments on Monday ) won't know EXACTLY how Floyd died any more than we do. Will they believe all the 'ology experts. I think they will. I believe the Defense dropped the ball here in that the witnesses were just not believable. The first 3 were a fiasco and the last 3 were a bit better but not much. The prosecution took 2 and a half weeks. The defense took a day and a half. Go figure. I think you made some good points. Until Monday have a great weekend and get those damn chores done

Hello. It's relatively late here (21h07). Believe it or not: I'm usually at very least in bed by this time. But had some tidying up to do here after having a slight change of heart on certain things after careful consideration.

I just saw Officer Chauvin speak and the debacle with issue with regard to his not testifying. I was getting hopeful. But as you've noted: probably be the worst thing for him to do. Or would it? I suppose I'd be a bad client because I'd be the type to want to give my side of the story my way. It drives me bonkers when witnesses are answered questions and expected to say "yes" or "no" without being allowed to elaborate. That's just a tactic used. Sometimes the answers are not simply "yes" or "no" but, for effect, that's the way it's done.

I will say this though: after having seen Officer Chauven speak and stand up in his suit he's not that big of a man physically. I could be wrong (and no I'm not going to look up vital statistics but may do so tomorrow). In all of the body cam footage he too looks big and menacing. Didn't see that same man tonight.

You have a nice evening. And thanks.