Bupe Fentanyl/bupe/naltrexone

[Tonyb82]

Hi all! Long time follower here. Never posted before but have been on the forums for at least 10-12 years. I’ll try to keep it short and get my question out there and hopefully there are others with my experience who would lend a helping hand in guiding me! Please!

long time opiate user. 15+ years every type of opiate you could imagine. Multiple detoxes and rehabs multiple self home detoxes. This is the first time I’m going through fentanyl detox on my own at home. Usually 12-18 hours in I would take 4-8 mg suboxone and feel great. NOT this time. Took a sub 24 hours in and feeling quite sick and still threw me into far more severe precipitated withdrawls. Now going on day 6 I’m still taking some sub I took 4mg today. I still don’t feel well but a lot better. My question is as follows...

the first two days after I took the initial 8mgs sub I was deathly ill and everyday since then has gotten better. My goal is to get back on naltrexone as fast as possible. My question is can I take a naltrexone soon or should I wait until 10 days after the last suboxone dose and why aren’t the subs helping much at all? Is it because Fent is lipophilic and last much longer? And since I’ve knocked all the Fent out of me and I’m only on subs for 5 days would the naltrexone rip the suboxone off my receptors and cause me to go back into precipitated withdrawls? Or is that over because I’m past the hardest part of the Fent withdrawls? I know this is virgin territory and I’m scared but I’m so determined to get back on naltrexone right away I needed some guidance from experienced people. I’m on alvogen brand subs which seem subpar compared to original suboxone also.

thank you in advance for any advice/input and if you need anymore detailed information about me just ask. Thanks again!

 

[JessFR]

Wow, OK first of all welcome to bluelight.

And second, I'm sorry but I actually have no idea. I've never learned anything about naltrexone AND naloxone together. I have no idea how they interact.

I'm not sure why subs aren't helping. Have you taken subuxone for fentanyl withdrawal before?

If you're immediately feeling more sick from the subuxone that sounds like precipitated withdrawal. But why it would still not work very will much later when fent is usually short acting sounds like like a tolerance issue. Basically that subuxone isn't strong enough for your opioid tolerance.

I'm not really sure. I mean I have LOTS of opioid and heroin experience, but virtually none with fentanyl and subuxone and naltrexone. So it's a bit outside my knowledge base I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else can help.

Could you give us a clearer idea about your habit? You said you were using fentanyl, but could you be a little more specific. For instance are these fentanyl specific pharmaceutical products like the lollipops and patches and such? Street or prescribed? Or is it fentanyl like in heroin in a lot of the US currently.

Once again welcome to bluelight, hope you'll stick around.

 

[Tonyb82]

Hi Jess and thanks for the reply. I do have a lot experience as well. Many many years and many many relapses. The fentanyl I was taking was was off the street. It’s most likely an analogue of some sort out of China. Can’t be sure lab results just said fentanyl analogue. It was a white powder. That’s all I can say.

the subs put me into precipitated withdrawls on day one and two. After day three I started feeling a little better each day. I’ve been trying to use less and less suboxone today ive only taken 4mgs and its day 6 and I feel better. Fentanyl is lipophilic it stays in you and bleeds out of your fat and organs at a very slow rate. Hence the long half life. Although it has a short half life in the blood. This is what’s so confusing for many. This isn’t NEW per’say but it’s fairly virgin grounds for the community.

I did have a high tolerance dependence on it. 3-4 bundles a day IV or intranasal. Mostly IV.

this is day 6 now I’ve like I said been taking roughly 8mg a day. Today cut down to 4 usually by day 6 I’m down to 2mgs and ready to jump off without side effects but this has been very different.

my main curiosity is since I’m only on subs a few days would a full agonist like naltrexone cause precipitated withdrawls from the BUPE now.

 

[JessFR]

I assume you mean an antagonist or inverse agonist.

Ok so anyway, I'm afraid I don't know. It depends on naltrexone has a higher binding affinity than buprenorphine. I know naloxone does not, but I don't know if naltrexone does.

I tried to find out with some googling but wasn't able to get an answer I found very conclusive.

Hopefully someone else with come on with some ideas. It's an unusual situation (I've been on bluelight a long time and I can't say I recall hearing a question exactly like this before) I'm curious what to know more.

 

[Tonyb82]

Yes that’s what I meant I’m sorry. I’m still very foggy and going through it! Still have the chills and pains no energy at all. Again still only took 4mgs bupe today tho and I’m trying to see what will happen if I don’t take anymore at all.

 

[Tonyb82]

If there’s anything that anyone can gather from this... it’s THIS: do NOT take suboxone until at least 48 hours into withdrawals from fentanyl or you will be in for a nightmare. Even then at 48 hours the anecdotal evidence says it may be too early. I can’t confirm since I took first sub about 20-24 hours into withdrawals. I was basing it off the cows scale like in the past which was NOT a good idea. The COWS scale can not be used when withdrawing from fentanyl analogues.

 

[JessFR]

If there’s anything that anyone can gather from this... it’s THIS: do NOT take suboxone until at least 48 hours into withdrawals from fentanyl or you will be in for a nightmare. Even then at 48 hours the anecdotal evidence says it may be too early. I can’t confirm since I took first sub about 20-24 hours into withdrawals. I was basing it off the cows scale like in the past which was NOT a good idea. The COWS scale can not be used when withdrawing from fentanyl analogues.

That's really surprising. I thought fentanyl was really short acting.

A lot of this doesn't seem to make sense. I mean I know you've experience what you've experienced, and I don't have a good explanation. I'm just surprised is all.

I wish there were someone here to weigh in with more experience with fentanyl and subuxone and shit.

I'm currently based in Australia and the heroin here is still largely free of fentanyl. So I have no real experience with fentanyl. And I'm on methadone not bupe. So I just don't have enough experience to say much.

I can wish you luck though!
Opioid addiction isn't an easy thing.
Not at all.

 

[Tonyb82]

It is short acting in the blood. However it’s absorbed and builds up in your fat and organs and bleeds out slowly by some mechanism affecting bupe induction! It’s crazy! There’s a few threads on here in finer detail about it. Australia that’s awesome I’m in Staten Island NY thank you!

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I have heard from many people on here that buprenorphine will put you into PWD even after a couple of days in some cases, which seemed really confusing to me, too, since fentanyl has such a short duration of action. But this is far from the first time I have heard about this.

I don't know much about naltrexone. why are you trying to go onto naltrexone? Is it to keep you off of other opioids? Isn't it like naloxone, as opposed to like bupe?

 

[Tonyb82]

Yep it’s becoming more and more common! Especially since the market is flooded with Fent analogues !

 

[Chris54455]

I am currently going through same thing I'm currently 49 hours into detox and have only experienced mild symptoms not as usual I refuse to take suboxone until I really need it but this is just confusing to me since I normally would b sick as a dog rn. It has to be the fentanyl that's going around has to have a long half life or something. I was on a 4-5 month long iv use relapse and I almost think the worst is over but I know that's impossible it has to be

 

[Tonyb82]

Hey Chris! Sorry to hear that. Although it’s comforting knowing I’m not alone. I’m 38 this is a first for Fent withdrawals for me. Whole new animal! If you haven’t experienced much withdrawals yet it because of the time it takes to come out of your fat and organs. It has a very long half-life in both of them. The withdrawls unfortunately will get worse before getting better. I wish you the best of luck. We can do this!!

 

[Tonyb82]

Yeah I have heard from many people on here that buprenorphine will put you into PWD even after a couple of days in some cases, which seemed really confusing to me, too, since fentanyl has such a short duration of action. But this is far from the first time I have heard about this.

I don't know much about naltrexone. why are you trying to go onto naltrexone? Is it to keep you off of other opioids? Isn't it like naloxone, as opposed to like bupe?

Naltrexone blocks opiates totally. Removed my cravings and acts as a safety net for me. I know if I take my naltrexone daily there’s no point trying to get high because I won’t be able to it completely blocks other opiates. It has a strong affinity for the receptors.

 

[Xorkoth]

I knew it blocked opiates but I didn't realize it also removes cravings, that's pretty cool. I might look into that. I imagine you have to get it prescribed?

 

[Tonyb82]

I knew it blocked opiates but I didn't realize it also removes cravings, that's pretty cool. I might look into that. I imagine you have to get it prescribed?

Yep it helps me a lot! And yes prescription only.

 

[311]

I gave myself a piss test on day 6 after fentanyl. It still showed positive. That shit sticks in your fat cells. I did the Burmese method and it worked like a champ

 

[Tonyb82]

I gave myself a piss test on day 6 after fentanyl. It still showed positive. That shit sticks in your fat cells. I did the Burmese method and it worked like a champ

Burmese method from full blown active addiction? I’ve never tried it. I don’t know how to get the mgs down enough I have the 50MG pills so I tried shaving one with a razor but still it was too much and caused me to get sick

 

[Tonyb82]

Update: this morning I took 2mg bupe. Now at 330 I just initiated a very small dose <2 mgs naltrexone. Hoping for the best but expecting the worst. I’m hoping the small dose will show no effect allowing me to dose more later. Building it up more and more depending totally on symptoms and results. If I don’t experience withdrawals from the bupe I will dose again in one hour.

 

[Tonyb82]

Even tho such a small dose some effects are evident. Uncomfortable, yawning, dysphoria, chills, stomach upset. Nothing MAJOR but for sure noticeable. I will not dose again for a while. It’s been over 1 hour since initial dose of naltrexone approx 6-8 hours after last 2mg dose of bupe and it’s noticeable but not by any means severe.

 

[Tonyb82]

No doubt in my mind that a higher dose would have produced more severe effects. I will wait to see for a few days before dosing again with naltrexone.