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Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

w01fg4ng said:
Is it more shocking that German has three genders for nouns or that English inherently has none?
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I'm often hesitant (with you) to respond sincerely, because you have this deadpan comedic style and sometimes it goes over my head... but I'm going to assume this is one of those rare moments that you're being serious. In which case, I'm not sure what the actual point of gendering a table or a boat is? I studied French in high school (and my ex-wife's first language was French) but I could never get over how bizarre it is to apply gender to inanimate objects.

I guess I think of dildos (and other phallic objects) as male... but a coffee table is just a coffee table.
 
cduggles said:
I respect the community and its culture
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I respect people, but I'm not sure if that means they can dictate my language. I would never say the n-word, though. I honestly didn't realize until today that there were terms cis people aren't allowed to say. What words are we talking about here?
 
birdup.snaildown said:
I'm often hesitant (with you) to respond sincerely, because you have this deadpan comedic style and sometimes it goes over my head... but I'm going to assume this is one of those rare moments that you're being serious. In which case, I'm not sure what the actual point of gendering a table or a boat is? I studied French in high school (and my ex-wife's first language was French) but I could never get over how bizarre it is to apply gender to inanimate objects.

I guess I think of dildos (and other phallic objects) as male... but a coffee table is just a coffee table.
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Don't be scared to show your true self to anyone.
 
It always confused me as a kid why my bike, as male, had a the bar going horizontal while the girls had more room in what seemed like the crotch area of the bike.

The day I wore a dress everything made sense.
 
I'm sure it is (common) but slavery was common a couple of hundred years ago... doesn't mean I have to agree with it. And, I still don't know what words I'm not supposed to say in front of trans people? It would help me understand if somebody told me what words I shouldn't say and why. With the n-word, I understand. There is a reason I don't say that word.

But, what word/s did @SKL say that are unacceptable... and why?
 
birdup.snaildown said:
I'm sure it is (common) but slavery was common a couple of hundred years ago... doesn't mean I have to agree with it. And, I still don't know what words I'm not supposed to say in front of trans people? It would help me understand if somebody told me what words I shouldn't say and why. With the n-word, I understand. There is a reason I don't say that word.

But, what word/s did @SKL say that are unacceptable... and why?
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Have you ever been witness to a conversation, or even read about one, where somebody referred to trans people in a derogatory, dismissive, uncharitable, or unkind way?

I think a significant number of people in Australia have, and even if not bigoted themselves are quite capable of parsing words that are generally understood as neutral or respectful and those that carry some kind negative valence.
 
@Atelier3

I'm not trying to be difficult. I genuinely don't know what words we're talking about. I can't not say words if I don't know what they are. This is getting a bit weird, honestly. My guess is that nobody wants to say what the words are because they are so offensive that they cannot be spoken, but that just leaves me in the dark... so I don't know what not to say.

I read @SKL 's posts and it seemed to me like he was doing backflips trying to not offend anyone. I'm not playing games. I legitimately do not understand @cduggles comment... although, at this point, I regret asking the question because (frankly) this is getting boring.

Can someone just DM me the words if they don't want to post them?

If not, let's move on okay?

Apparently I'm not supposed to say certain words but nobody is willing to tell me what they are or why I shouldn't say them. This is odd.
 
It is probably best to move on. I don’t think anybody wants to write out a list of offensive words.

I guess the sensible thing to do is follow the lead of other people who seem to be sensitive to these things and try to pick up the preferred terminology from them. Another option would be to politely ask a transgender person their views.

Inevitably though, in these complicated times no-one will ever get it right 100 % of the time. No matter that you are acting in good faith some activist or provoceteur will find fault with how you have referred to something.

In my view those fights are rarely worth fighting. I apologise for the misunderstanding, thank the person for enlightening me, and avoid them thereafter. I work in the arts and social sciences faculty of a university and get grief from people for language errors all the time.
 
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Don't have anything to add here, other than I've been enjoying reading this thread! The topic isn't one I'm usually interested in but the discussion has been quite interesting imo
 
I am okay with adults who are well over 21, and who have had lots of therapy and been actually diagnosed transsexual/transgender transitioning, as they are adults.

However, I do not believe teens or young children should be allowed to transition, be given hormones before/during puberty, or be given drastic permanent irreversible sex change surgery.

The way drag queens are being forced upon children, or some children are encouraged to be drag queens is disturbing, and drag is for adults not for children and teens.

I say this as someone who grew up around hyper-effeminate gay men who were part time drag queens. I have never dressed in drag, been to a drag show/contest, etc. they also did not talk about sex around me when I was that age and very young.



Also the term 'queer' is a slur, and it is used by doormat types that think they are being edgy still living in the late 1980s/early 1990s in gay/LGB ghettos, and to avoid actually saying they are bisexual, gay, or lesbian. I have met people who are heterosexual who say they are queer because they like sex kinks, lie and cheat on spouses/partners with hookers, or for other silly reasons but they are not LGB/LGBT at all.
 
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birdup.snaildown said:
I think he did an extraordinary job. Certainly way better than I'm capable of... It's kind of impossible not to offend people these days.

I'm happy to admit that (personally) I don't understand the trans movement. I think people are a bit confused about gender these days. I've brought this up with some trans people I know and they were surprisingly accommodating. There were no hurt feelings.

I will always call people by their preferred pronouns assuming they aren't super confusing. It doesn't cost me anything to say he or she. I think zhe is a bit much, but that's somewhat of a rarity in the trans world. Most people who transition are happy with "normal" pronouns.

I don't think a trans woman is a woman. If you have XY chromosomes, you are a man. (Excluding intersex situations or whatever. You know what I mean.) That's my opinion. I'm not going to yell it from the rooftops. But, I also don't feel guilty for having that opinion.

I've met a lot of lovely, intelligent trans people. I read something a while back that indicated that gay/lesbian people tend to have higher IQs than straight people. Maybe it's not true, but (from my experience) it probably is. I think the same is true for trans people. I've had fascinating conversations with trans men and women. They are light years ahead of me in terms of deconstructing gender... so maybe I don't understand because I'm ignorant.

I've tried to understand. I just don't get it.
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The poorly kept secret is that the majority of trans people do not transition as the surgery is expensive, risky, and the hormones are not good for the body either. Many transition partially and I have met people who are trans that did not take any hormones or have any surgery as they feel that the surgery and hormones are not going to actually make them the opposite sex or gender and they will be the sex/gender they are genetically/biologically but just a poor imitation of the opposite sex/gender.

I also do not like trans or the new tern non-binary people telling bisexuals, gay men, lesbians, and heterosexual people that they must or have to fuck, date, partner/marry trans/non-binary people.
 
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