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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Social Justice White/Straight/Cis/Male Privilege

No idea, I didn't live in Mississippi and I don't know how it works, but I can tell you that nowadays in some parts of Europe is better to be Person A than person B just for the fact that there's some positive discrimination towards minorities and all those in Person B group are considered to be privileged just because they are white and heterosexual when that is not the case at all, because 99% are still poor if they are unlucky. Maybe they're not discriminated directly, they are just buried into oblivion like all poor people is.

The question in all honesty isn't "Are there a few places on Earth where group A would be better?" its "Which group would you have the better shot at succeeding in?" Meaning if you put every combination of sexual orientation, gender, race, economic status, geographic location, etc in a big bag, then you draw one attribute one by one.

If you are playing the odds, there is only one correct sequence. If you don't hit the jackpot: heterosexual, male, Caucasian, wealthy, a "developed" secular nation...well, you should hope for the best combination of those things.

To be honest when you picture Person A, I consider that it does the fact of being bisexual or trans does not even matter in the sense that those "minority groups" are things that no one needs to know about, for example when you search for a job.
Who would even notice if you're bisexual or trans if you don't draw attention about it?

Okay, so what about once you actually have the job? Just hide who you are forever while your peers get to live their lives openly? Asking someone to live in the closet is essentially asking them to die.

For the same reason, tall and attractive people with very good looks are often sought after in certain customer service jobs.
Does that seem wrong to you? To me a little, but I'm not crazy about it. I myself would rather see an attractive receptionist (male or female, gay or trans) than an orc from mordor.
Excuse me, maybe I'm too shallow! But the reality is that if you have to choice between two people of the same moral quality, experience and ability, you know who they're going to choose. And look, it may not be the straight, cis, white male. It depends on what job we're talking about.

Again it's a totality of many factors. Each factor contributes to varying degrees depending on where you live and what aspect of life you're talking about. But in general, especially in North America and Europe where the vast majority of us are from, there is a standard "perfect" person you want to be. White, male, straight, rich, tall, muscular, huge cock, good fashion sense, symmetrical facial features, prominent jawline, articulate, intelligent, etc. I could keep going but I personally think it's more efficient to narrow it down to the most significant ones.
 
I dont' disagreee with your points actually, but I disagree with the fact that it seems that we need to put upside down the "Ideal" just to make things more "fair" and "inclusive" and I don't think that's a proper solution but more like what Nietzsche called "reactivity".
 
I dont' disagreee with your points actually, but I disagree with the fact that it seems that we need to put upside down the "Ideal" just to make things more "fair" and "inclusive" and I don't think that's a proper solution but more like what Nietzsche called "reactivity".

I've not actually proposed any solutions. I'm curious though, why is promoting fairness and inclusivity wrong? Maybe we disagree with how that is achieved , but surely that should be the goal.
 
why is promoting fairness and inclusivity wrong?
Not who you're replying to but I'll bit here: because methods to do so on a societal scale are almost always at least implicitly totalitarian, except in terms of actually reforming the policies of the government itself, strictly defined, which is mostly a solved problem (i.e. de jure discrimination and disenfranchisement is long gone.)
 
Oh I really don't mind getting banned. We are not the same. White males (females too) aren't even "allowed" to have an identity that is positive (separate, distinct from every other land and people on earth), without including EVERYONE including those who hate them...

They are denied the right that is given to every poor Tibetan, every Black, every Kurd, every Jew, every-one else... The right to a separate identity (or respect, of their identity, their place), the right to go their own direction. To orient and defend themself.


The amount of snarky and useless comments in response to anything a white person says regarding their own individual experiences (despite also stating at some point or another white privilege does exist) is exactly why this entire topic cant be expected to generate anything besides annoyance.


Ive been to the States a number of times, obviously cant say that is the same as living there. The yanks in this forum are the ones telling us about the racism and white privilege there. The American aborigines do not get much mention amongst that issue. They don't count though do they, they arent black either???

I know white privilege is a thing here, have got a pretty good education history wise of the development of societies from the 1600-1700's until present day. Happy to admit it, apologise for it? Well, Australia already did that officially, the PM at the time did. Did it fix all the things? Not sure about that .

Im probably far more aware of Australian issues than any of you considering where I have lived in this country and what experiences I've had.

I also know better than to touch that subject with a ten foot pole, this forum could not handle it.

The whole "white privilege " trendy annoying term and use of it (and similar jargon is purely yank in origin and is incredibly lazy and petulant imo. Its all good though, reality is this is the norm anywhere so there must be some people finding it interesting.
 
I am so confused because the splitting and resigning some threads has made this one make no sense, cant find a post I made and fixed up a few times, maybe I didn't post it in the first place.

Could have sworn a couple ppl were not banned an hour ago but are now and haven't been here to piss any mod off .

Must be the white straight men again!
 
I am so confused because the splitting and resigning some threads has made this one make no sense, cant find a post I made and fixed up a few times, maybe I didn't post it in the first place.

Could have sworn a couple ppl were not banned an hour ago but are now and haven't been here to piss any mod off .

Must be the white straight men again!

plenty of annoying straight white males left here, don't worry. They ganged up on me earlier and I actually kinda liked it.

The American aborigines do not get much mention amongst that issue. They don't count though do they, they arent black either???

I agree that what we done to the native Americans gets overlooked too often when we have discussions about racial justice. I think we should talk more about it. That being said, more has been done for the descendants of the native tribes than has been done for the descendants of the African slaves.

btw daisy, white privilege isn't a "lazy" term. It's been studied quite extensively by many people including non Americans. I'd welcome you to tell me why it's "lazy". Former and current cops have admitted that they profile black men as dangerous. The whole stop and frisk disaster was engineered so they could search non whites at will without having to establish any pretext.
 
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding when talking about privilege.

The point is not that you can't struggle or have difficulties if you're a straight white male, and no one has said that.

What it means is that, you have the privilege of not having to go through what gay people, minorities, and women go through.

I don't think that's a radical concept. The problem is that people take things that might not even be directed at them personally.
 
Also no one's freedom of speech is being infringed. You have just as much right to say anything you want as anyone else.

What you don't have is the right to control how people react to what you say. If most of society has deemed that something is offensive, ignorant, etc. then that's what society has determined.

It's amazing to me how frustrated people get that they can no longer get away with using slurs.
 
deficiT said:
you have the privilege of not having to go through what gay people, minorities, and women go through.

White women in Australia are suffering are they? News to me. I know lots of women. What do they "have to go through"?

Your statement is too broad, which is problem with white male privilege in general. It's not a useful term.

Women in Saudi Arabia are probably suffering relative to men. I've never been there. I don't know any Saudi women, but I gather it is quite oppressive.

White women in Australia pointing fingers at men and saying privilege is SUCH hypocritical bullshit.
 
White women in Australia are suffering are they? News to me. I know lots of women. What do they "have to go through"?

Your statement is too broad, which is problem with white male privilege in general. It's not a useful term.

Women in Saudi Arabia are probably suffering relative to men. I've never been there. I don't know any Saudi women, but I gather it is quite oppressive.

White women in Australia pointing fingers at men and saying privilege is SUCH hypocritical bullshit.
How often do you have to deal with unwanted sexual advances as a man? Most women go through that quite often, that is just one example. Sexual assault is ridiculously common for women.

Your comment is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You don't know what women go through because you're not a woman so you don't have to worry about it.

No one's saying women are "suffering" and that's not the point of the term privilege.
 
Murder is common for men.

deficiT said:
You don't know what women go through because you're not a woman so you don't have to worry about it.

By that logic no men know what women go through, so how can you (I'm assuming you're male here) or any other men say men are - or are not - privileged?

I'd rather be raped than murdered.
What about the suicide rate?

I have a daughter and a wife. Don't tell me I don't have to worry about it. That's bullshit.
 
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White women in Australia are suffering are they? News to me. I know lots of women. What do they "have to go through"?

Your statement is too broad, which is problem with white male privilege in general. It's not a useful term.

Women in Saudi Arabia are probably suffering relative to men. I've never been there. I don't know any Saudi women, but I gather it is quite oppressive.

White women in Australia pointing fingers at men and saying privilege is SUCH hypocritical bullshit.

Just cause people suffer much worse prejudice in one place doesn't mean it's not a problem in places where it happens much less.

Would I say I feel constantly worse off as a white female in Australia? No. Have I ever felt it though? Yes.

I get what you're trying to say. I just don't like the whole "people in/with x are way worse off than you so stop complaining" arguments.

Just cause there are people worse off, even massively worse off, doesn't mean those smaller problems that still exist should just be ignored.
 
Murder is common for men.



By that logic no men know what women go through, so how can you (I'm assuming you're male here) or any other men say men are - or are not - privileged?

I'd rather be raped than murdered.
What about the suicide rate?

I have a daughter and a wife. Don't tell me I don't have to worry about it. That's bullshit.
You are just spinning your wheels on this man. I never claimed to know what it's like to be a woman, I just listen to what women tell me about their lived experience.

And yet rape is far more common than murder. Next time I hear someone talking about their traumatic sexual assault, I'll just be like, hey at least you weren't murdered. You see, if you were a guy you'd have it much worse.
 
JessFR said:
I just don't like the whole "people in/with x are way worse off than you so stop complaining" arguments.

Just cause there are people worse off, even massively worse off, doesn't mean those smaller problems that still exist should just be ignored.

I never said any of that.

deficiT said:
I never claimed to know what it's like to be a woman, I just listen to what women tell me about their lived experience.

I listen to women too and I listen to men and I honestly do not believe that it is harder to be a woman in Australia. Your statement was nonsensical. You said "you don't know what women go through because you're not a woman". It's a two way street. Women don't know what men go through because they're not men.

There are a lot of men in this thread talking about their "lived experience".

3 times as many men kill themselves. How do you account for that, if it's harder being a woman? I'm not saying it's harder being a man. I realize that sexual assault happens more often than murder, but murder is worse than sexual assault. I have been sexually assaulted (by a woman and a man) and I'm glad I wasn't murdered.

deficiT said:
Next time I hear someone talking about their traumatic sexual assault, I'll just be like, hey at least you weren't murdered. You see, if you were a guy you'd have it much worse.

I'm not unsympathetic to victims of sexual assault and I don't appreciate you suggesting that I am. I also am not saying guys have it worse and I never have said anything of the sort.

Skip the strawman BS.
 
3 times as many men kill themselves. How do you account for that, if it's harder being a woman?

Cause men are whiney little bitches and can't take as much. :D

Ok real answer now, women actually do attempt suicide more frequently than men. It's just men tend to use methods that have a very high certainty of death.

Women tend to try and overdose or cut themselves and bleed out. Men tend to hang themselves or shoot themselves or gas themselves.
 
I never said any of that.



I listen to women too and I listen to men and I honestly do not believe that it is harder to be a woman in Australia. Your statement was nonsensical. You said "you don't know what women go through because you're not a woman". It's a two way street. Women don't know what men go through because they're not men.

There are a lot of men in this thread talking about their "lived experience".

3 times as many men kill themselves. How do you account for that, if it's harder being a woman? I'm not saying it's harder being a man. I realize that sexual assault happens more often than murder, but murder is worse than sexual assault. I have been sexually assaulted (by a woman and a man) and I'm glad I wasn't murdered.



I'm not unsympathetic to victims of sexual assault and I don't appreciate you suggesting that I am. I also am not saying guys have it worse and I never have said anything of the sort.

Skip the strawman BS.
This is a conversation about privilege. Females have certain privileges that men don't.

It's not about who has it worse it's about listening to what people say and correcting societal problems. This can't happen if people can't even recognize what advantages and disadvantages certain groups have.

Dude you're taking a whole lot out of a little bit of sarcasm.
 
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This is a conversation about privilege. Females have certain privileges that men don't.

It's not about who has it worse it's about listening to what people say and correcting societal problems. This can't happen if people can't even recognize what advantages and disadvantages certain groups have.

Bingo. I 100% agree.
 
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