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Covid-19 Who's planning on getting a COVID-19 vaccine? (Poll)

If you have not been infected and not been vaccinated then you remain a potential vector for further community transmission that could quite possibly result in the death of other human beings. If you are not getting tested every single day, or perhaps even more frequently, you would never know if you were responsible for what is in effect manslaughter (causing avoidable death by negligence), because you may be asymptomatic.
 
Gormur said:
Nothing co-morbid? I don't get the flu so I've never had the flu vaccine. I assumed this was related to the flu. Based on what it sounds like, I'd assumed I'd've gotten it already since I had bronchitis when I was a kid. Although I guess people grow out of that stuff if they're lucky
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My aunt had diabetes and was overweight, so she was at risk, but was healthy before getting it, other than diabetes. My cousin and his fiance lived with her, and both got it, it wasn't serious for him, but she ended up in the ICU on a ventilator and ended up passing away. So he lost his mom and fiance to it. She was in her mid 40s and had no health problems I am aware of.
 
Atelier3 said:
If you have not been infected and not been vaccinated then you remain a potential vector for further community transmission that could quite possibly result in the death of other human beings. If you are not getting tested every single day, or perhaps even more frequently, you would never know if you were responsible for what is in effect manslaughter (causing avoidable death by negligence), because you may be asymptomatic.
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Off-topic but what about the people giving me bronchitis when I was growing up? Doesn't that count for something? Or wait, they don't know they're causing it so they're innocent. This correlation to air-borne viruses being someone's fault doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing some science here?
 
Gormur said:
Off-topic but what about the people giving me bronchitis when I was growing up? Doesn't that count for something? Or wait, they don't know they're causing it so they're innocent. This correlation to air-borne viruses being someone's fault doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing some science here?
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Yes you are missing a little bit of science and a little bit of logic. There is no vaccination against bronchitis and it does not have the level of contagion or mortality that Covid has. So you are making a false equivalence which will get you marked down in debate club for sure.

It's worth noting that in some Asian countries, well before Covid, anybody with a cough or sniffle would automatically wear a mask when they went outside out of concern for infecting others. It is evident to me that some cultures are more community minded and compassionate than others. In those countries it's unlikely you would have picked up bronchitis as a kid.
 
Atelier3 said:
Yes you are missing a little bit of science and a little bit of logic. There is no vaccination against bronchitis and it does not have the level of contagion or mortality that Covid has. So you are making a false equivalence which will get you marked down in debate club for sure.

It's worth noting that in some Asian countries, well before Covid, anybody with a cough or sniffle would automatically wear a mask when they went outside out of concern for infecting others. It is evident to me that some cultures are more community minded and compassionate than others. In those countries it's unlikely you would have picked up bronchitis as a kid.
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It's just that I've heard of older people who had bronchitis having COVID and either dying or recovering slowly. So, since bronchitis seems to be genetic in my family (maternal's paternal side), how is that my fault? Unless you're saying since there's no vaccine for what I'm prone to, bronchitis that it's on me to correct the statistics of a virus. Then I don't know how to answer you. That doesn't seem very scientific to me

Your argument about picking up bronchitis doesn't make sense at all. Sorry
 
Gormur said:
Off-topic but what about the people giving me bronchitis when I was growing up? Doesn't that count for something? Or wait, they don't know they're causing it so they're innocent. This correlation to air-borne viruses being someone's fault doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing some science here?
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Well just in case you or I have some crossed wires, I don’t believe I was getting into the ethics of others fault and innocence or guilt regarding awareness of spreading infection.

That’s a different but not unrelated topic. I was trying to look at the potential scientific explanation for you likely having encountered Covid germs, but fended off a symptomatic infection due to naturally strong immunity.

You are currently the opposite of me. I would pay huge dollar for your own level of strong immune function at preventing new infections from developing altogether.

If I had just 5 new infections set in annually I’d be overjoyed.

It’s honestly closer to 50 at least. If it was just a smaller few, I can clear most very quickly, others eventually. But there is rarely a single week I’m not hit be a new one. Quickly treated but it still takes toll, commitment, time, and recovery then it’s go again.

Now, I really normally would try and provide something on your other questions. But lots of kava now, cannabis edibles and vapor and load of Etizolam....not so wittful right now lol. Nicely chilled out though. Cinderella Jack vapor now. Cross between Jack Herer and Cindy 99.
 
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Gormur said:
So there's no reason to get vaccinated unless you've been infected? Okay I've heard of that idea. I just hope I don't have to get vaccinated to travel when I do. I think I heard it was kind of expensive too. I checked out the ingredients of the vaccine and they didn't seem too bad, but I'd avoid getting it if I could. When I was a kid and was forced to get various vaccines at school, I later figured out why I had reactions to some of them - I'm allergic to eggs =/
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I wasn’t actually suggesting that either to be clear. I’d like to say...it’s better in the long run, to get infected and have suffucial care and treatment from off to really control the infection, prevent any major flare ups, control symptoms, clear it quickly, and acquire immunity the good old fashioned way.

Ideally! That really wasn’t what I was driving at there though. Call it an inference on your part, not without roots.

But conversely, I’m now thinking about the person who HAS had Covid, beat it successfully, not felt a whiff of it since- do THEY need a vaccine?
 
Gormur said:
It's just that I've heard of older people who had bronchitis having COVID and either dying or recovering slowly. So, since bronchitis seems to be genetic in my family (maternal's paternal side), how is that my fault? Unless you're saying since there's no vaccine for what I'm prone to, bronchitis that it's on me to correct the statistics of a virus. Then I don't know how to answer you. That doesn't seem very scientific to me

Your argument about picking up bronchitis doesn't make sense at all. Sorry
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I get that response a lot. That my argument does not make any sense and therefore cannot be responded to. It seems to be a thing.

I don't see this as a discussion about fault. There is a moral question here and it is as follows:

Should I take every reasonable precaution to ensure I do not cause the death of another human being?

Now, I believe the answer to this question for all humans in all situations is: yes. However, that does not address the rubbery question of what is a reasonable precaution. That can be debated.

Wearing a mask seems to be a risk free way to comply with the moral obligation of not potentially causing death.

Taking a vaccine is less obviously reasonable if one genuinely believes that the vaccine may cause harm to oneself.

However, because the evidence of the potential harm of the main vaccines is minimal to non-existent it seems almost all people must take the vaccine to comply with the moral obligation laid out above.

Turning it around I'd ask this: do you care if a virus jumps from you to another person and causes their death? It's a yes or no question.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
@thegreenhand

I understand being apprehensive about getting a vaccination. There is a lot of negative hype floating around. If you contract the virus, though, you might pass it on to someone else and they could pass it on to a dozen people... and so on, and so forth. Not getting vaccinated could cause deaths.

My brother is in his 40s. Lifelong alcoholic. Overweight. Chain smoker for three decades. He lives in a third world country that is riddled with COVID. He says he doesn't want to get vaccinated because the only one available over there is AstraZeneca and he is concerned about blood clotting. I haven't bothered trying to convince him otherwise, because he is as stubborn as a dead mule... If he was 19 years old, I admit that I would not be concerned about him.
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Well luckily I get tested minimum once a week for work so I can keep on eye on my positivity

a grocery chain near me apparently has antibody tests for $25 so I may do that and see if this whole thing is moot anyways
 
@AutoTripper No misunderstanding here. =) I understand what you're saying, but you wouldn't want to be me as a kid when I was wheezing to catch oxygen at night to breath. Ironically around the same time, my grandpa was living with me and he had lupus but he told me he had bronchitis at one point too and so did his twin sister, who's still alive (but he died from lupus in his 50s when I was eight). His sister has lupus as well but it's some kind of dormant variety, anyway this is off-topic again so I'll be quiet
 
Atelier3 said:
I get that response a lot. That my argument does not make any sense and therefore cannot be responded to. It seems to be a thing.

I don't see this as a discussion about fault. There is a moral question here and it is as follows:

Should I take every reasonable precaution to ensure I do not cause the death of another human being?

Now, I believe the answer to this question for all humans in all situations is: yes. However, that does not address the rubbery question of what is a reasonable precaution. That can be debated.

Wearing a mask seems to be a risk free way to comply with the moral obligation of not potentially causing death.

Taking a vaccine is less obviously reasonable if one genuinely believes that the vaccine may cause harm to oneself.

However, because the evidence of the potential harm of the main vaccines is minimal to non-existent it seems almost all people must take the vaccine to comply with the moral obligation laid out above.

Turning it around I'd ask this: do you care if a virus jumps from you to another person and causes their death? It's a yes or no question.
Click to expand...
Atelier3 said:
I get that response a lot. That my argument does not make any sense and therefore cannot be responded to. It seems to be a thing.

I don't see this as a discussion about fault. There is a moral question here and it is as follows:

Should I take every reasonable precaution to ensure I do not cause the death of another human being?

Now, I believe the answer to this question for all humans in all situations is: yes. However, that does not address the rubbery question of what is a reasonable precaution. That can be debated.

Wearing a mask seems to be a risk free way to comply with the moral obligation of not potentially causing death.

Taking a vaccine is less obviously reasonable if one genuinely believes that the vaccine may cause harm to oneself.

However, because the evidence of the potential harm of the main vaccines is minimal to non-existent it seems almost all people must take the vaccine to comply with the moral obligation laid out above.

Turning it around I'd ask this: do you care if a virus jumps from you to another person and causes their death? It's a yes or no question.
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Could we turn it around again and ask do you care if another person commits suicide from loneliness?

In Japan, you are more likely to die from your own hand than from Covid (which I think is safe to say was exacerbated by lockdowns). I don’t think it’s as binary spreading the virus or not, when the measures to protect some also hurt others
 
Atelier3 said:
I get that response a lot. That my argument does not make any sense and therefore cannot be responded to. It seems to be a thing.

I don't see this as a discussion about fault. There is a moral question here and it is as follows:

Should I take every reasonable precaution to ensure I do not cause the death of another human being?

Now, I believe the answer to this question for all humans in all situations is: yes. However, that does not address the rubbery question of what is a reasonable precaution. That can be debated.

Wearing a mask seems to be a risk free way to comply with the moral obligation of not potentially causing death.

Taking a vaccine is less obviously reasonable if one genuinely believes that the vaccine may cause harm to oneself.

However, because the evidence of the potential harm of the main vaccines is minimal to non-existent it seems almost all people must take the vaccine to comply with the moral obligation laid out above.

Turning it around I'd ask this: do you care if a virus jumps from you to another person and causes their death? It's a yes or no question.
Click to expand...
This still doesn't make sense. Based on what I know of this potential virus, it matters more about how many people one has been around; like let's not think about if certain population groups are more prone to getting such a virus or not instead which seems like how this used to be looked at. I'm not saying it isn't but you just don't hear about this much. Also, what about the possibility of taking a vaccine that further spreads a virus, instead of killing it in its tracks?

As far as morality, I'd think it's more moral to figure out where the virus came from and how to prevent it rather than trying to figure out how to dodge it with drugs. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against people being clean and trying to prevent diseases from spreading in the air, but this virus immunity idea doesn't make sense to me
 
thegreenhand said:
Could we turn it around again and ask do you care if another person commits suicide from loneliness?

In Japan, you are more likely to die from your own hand than from Covid (which I think is safe to say was exacerbated by lockdowns). I don’t think it’s as binary spreading the virus or not, when the measures to protect some also hurt others
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I get your point. But at the level of individual responsibility to take action to avoid another person's death I personally would find the same standard of care applied, within reason (which is again debatable). If I knew someone whom I knew was going to commit suicide from loneliness I would (if safe, practical, and reasonable) takes actions to mitigate that death occurring.

However, I'm not sure that not taking an action to prevent a death (becoming a friend to a lonely suicidal person) is morally the same as taking an action likely to cause a death (refusing a vaccine for a deadly illness). I think the latter is more proactively/deliberately likely to cause death at the level of individual responsibility.

It's not possible to create a moral equivalence at the level of state-mandated lockdowns (causing suicides) versus individually and knowingly becoming a vector for a disease that will likely cause a death.
 
Atelier3 said:
I get your point. But at the level of individual responsibility to take action to avoid another person's death I personally would find the same standard of care applied, within reason (which is again debatable). If I knew someone whom I knew was going to commit suicide from loneliness I would (if safe, practical, and reasonable) takes actions to mitigate that death occurring.

However, I'm not sure that not taking an action to prevent a death (becoming a friend to a lonely suicidal person) is morally the same as taking an action likely to cause a death (refusing a vaccine for a deadly illness). I think the latter is more proactively/deliberately likely to cause death at the level of individual responsibility.

It's not possible to create a moral equivalence at the level of state-mandated lockdowns (causing suicides) versus individually and knowingly becoming a vector for a disease that will likely cause a death.
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I guess I would say that individuals are proactively choosing to support lockdowns that are causing difficult times (financially, mentally, etc) and although it is non action in the sense of the virus it could be considered an intentional act given that we all know how rough this shit can be

key word is “could”. I agree that a moral equivalence there is hard to make
 
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