Social Justice Black Lives Matter Discussion Thread

[Deleted member 521610]

women are acutally highly respected in these cultures. you can not say a swear word infront of tongan women or you will get all her male relatives beating you up. learnt this the hard way,

 

[JessFR]

Your culture needs to change. Because there's no place in the modern world for cultural norms that place such low value on life. That say it's OK to solve problems with violence rather than words.

If you learn to function in the modern world, you'll get to preserve your culture behind bars. Crying about the racism and injustice of the white man not letting you act like thugs.

It's like the aboriginal child abuse scandals here. People are so scared that they will be labeled racist they wanna turn a blind eye. It's fucked. It's not racist to fight a backward dysfunctional culture that hurts the people in it and everyone around them.

Cultural norms are not an inherent consequence of race. Judging people for their race is wrong, judging them for their culture is not.

 

[JessFR]

women are acutally highly respected in these cultures. you can not say a swear word infront of tongan women or you will get all her male relatives beating you up. learnt this the hard way,

That sure is one amazing culture of thuggish violence you got there.

How sad. Solving everything with violence.

Oh and also is that your hilarious notion of a fair fight again? Ganging up on someone? Another of Maori cultural martial arts of beatamanwhenhesdownfoo and ganguponhimudo?

 

[Deleted member 521610]

That sure is one amazing culture of thuggish violence you got there.

How sad. Solving everything with violence.

Oh and also is that your hilarious notion of a fair fight again? Ganging up on someone? Another of Maori cultural martial arts of beatamanwhenhesdownfoo and ganguponhimudo?

i would not say its fair thats just the way things are. You ever been out or seen the folks from mount druitt and the beef they have with other islanders in 21 district. Western Sydney has these same issues just like all of NZ. Expect in NZ its more widespread.

 

[JessFR]

i would not say its fair thats just the way things are. You ever been out or seen the folks from mount druitt and the beef they have with other islanders in 21 district. Western Sydney has these same issues just like all of NZ. Expect in NZ its more widespread.

Actually I've been to Mount Druitt a bunch of times. I lived for 7 years in Western Sydney, specifically Wentworthville/Pendle Hill/Parramatta and Fairfield/Fairfield Heights/Fairfield West (might as well group them you can walk through all three in well under an hour these local government areas are so stupidly small)

Just cause things are a certain way doesn't mean they have to stay like that forever and it certainly doesn't mean you should defend them being that way.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

i want solutions to ghettos and hoods i would never raise a family in them but i grew up in them. With the levels of increasing meth addiction with the failure of the government it will just lead to more levels of violence in these groups. Gangs are growing in NZ meanwhile kids still starve and go onto join gangs because the government never adressed the poverty and rising cost of living that is happening in places like south auckland.

Now gangs are becoming more american here with guns over the last year and more and more shootings are happening weekly. Either the government comes with a plan to reduce poverty living costs and all the other social economic problems that fuel violence and other crime that effects vurenable groups more or we will see a rise of more crime and even more violence on the streets. I never feel safe walking around Wellington or auckland CBD anymore gangs have taken over and everybody is on meth with extreme homeless problems that the governments are doing fuck all to address.

I will say this i have never harmed anybody who never asked for it. And yes i have been through the court systems and all that. I try better myself but violence is simply something that is so ingrained into people that if situations arise that require it usually end up in violence. breaking the next cycle of the generation so they don't become so violent is a step but ay things are going backwards atm with these governments poverty is only increasing.

 

[JessFR]

i want solutions to ghettos and hoods i would never raise a family in them but i grew up in them. With the levels of increasing meth addiction with the failure of the government it will just lead to more levels of violence in these groups. Gangs are growing in NZ meanwhile kids still starve and go onto join gangs because the government never adressed the poverty and rising cost of living that is happening in places like south auckland.

Now gangs are becoming more american here with guns over the last year and more and more shootings are happening weekly. Either the government comes with a plan to reduce poverty living costs and all the other social economic problems that fuel violence and other crime that effects vurenable groups more or we will see a rise of more crime and even more violence on the streets. I never feel safe walking around Wellington or auckland CBD anymore gangs have taken over and everybody is on meth with extreme homeless problems that the governments are doing fuck all to address.

I will say this i have never harmed anybody who never asked for it. And yes i have been through the court systems and all that. I try better myself but violence is simply something that is so ingrained into people that if situations arise that require it usually end up in violence. breaking the next cycle of the generation so they don't become so violent is a step but ay things are going backwards atm with these governments poverty is only increasing.

Except you are defending using violence when it's not called for.

And thing is, even if you legit can't help yourself, and I think that's a bs excuse, it doesn't change anything, your victims still have a right to defend themselves.

Even if Trayvon Marin couldn't help react the way he did, Zimmerman was still in the right in using his weapon to defend himself.

You keep saying you never use violence against people who aren't asking for it, but it's obvious that your definition of asking for it essentially amounts to whatever you want.

And it's utterly hypocritical that you think Zimmerman was in the wrong, you think using violence is justified by trayvon Martin because he felt disrespected but NOT justified by Zimmerman who was punched to the ground without warning.

It's all fucking backwards.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

i think its bullshit that zimmerman got off his charges when in fact if the same thing happened and travyon was white he would be prision.

 

[atara]

They aint a victim i never start fights i simply end them and humble a person who thinks they are acutally something in this world when they are a pussy who cant even fight.

Street fighting isn't really honorable. If you catch a "good" fighter tired or unprepared, you'll win. If a moron catches you tired or unprepared, they'll win. I mean, sure, there's that one guy who does MMA every weekend, who might actually have a durable advantage, but that isn't you, and most of the time the training required teaches you some kind of respect.

Fighting in public isn't something to be proud of. Fighting someone because you don't like how they looked at you is wrong. And it certainly isn't the kind of culture that breeds effective warriors. Effective military tactics depend on the ability of individuals to put the needs of the group above their own, which requires humility. See e.g. the famous Why Arabs Lose Wars.

"Head-to-head competition among individuals is generally avoided, at least openly, for it means that someone wins and someone else loses, with the loser humiliated."

This is what happens when nobody can afford to lose face.

What you've described is not a warrior culture but the culture of a traumatized underclass. Victorian Britain was a warrior culture. Medieval Turkey and Japan likewise. You think they got in fistfights all the time?

 

[Deleted member 521610]

lol you dont even a thing about our culture. Maoris and pacific islanders are true warrior cultures who gave germans in world wars there first defeat by the allies in north africa. Tribal war existed here up til the british came and stole everything.

I still train boxing most days as a way to keep in shape plus i love to shadow box to always refine my tools. Its something i have done since i was a child a moron that has no experince fighting or anything is not going to catch somebody off guard who trains and fights and fights in more street fights than most people should ever be in.

Everybody thinks they can fight but one pouch to the head and they are already dazed and its over. If you are not conditioned to fight the amount of hits a person can take is very low but islanders via their very genetics can withstand some heavy beatings. You don't how NZ is and all the factors have led to street fighting been common place in alot of places in the country. There is reason by the genetics of our acutal warrior cultures have led to everybody been massive. In cali people know not to disrepect islanders.

Street fighting is pretty much a way of life in poor communities in nz. Especially south auckland where it seems nearly every kid is a fucking kick boxer. Street gangs here had alot of world class kick boxers as their presidents. So now alot of gang kids grew up with high level kick boxing. Massive 20 on 20 brawls are pretty common place between different areas or even high schools in these street communities. But you know the difference is people aint here to murder each other just assault each other with their fists no weapons.

In america if you are hood you get shoot and if you try defend yourself vs some racists chasing you down you get shot and murdered by them or murdered by cops. Where the law always let these people off.

At least here Cops don't murder colored people.

 

[JessFR]

i think its bullshit that zimmerman got off his charges when in fact if the same thing happened and travyon was white he would be prision.

No he wouldn't. It woulda been no different.

The evidence showed very clearly that trayvon attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around. This was Florida, any lawyer woulda effortlessly been able to show that it was self defense.

This isn't fucking rocket science. If you punch someone unprovoked so they fall to the ground and you start kicking them, that person has the right to shoot their attacker.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

i disagree that it was unprovoked. But ay we are never going to agree on that point so its useless arguing any further

 

[JessFR]

lol you dont even a thing about our culture. Maoris and pacific islanders are true warrior cultures who gave germans in world wars there first defeat by the allies in north africa. thugs who beat each other up as their solution to interpersonal conflict .Tribal war existed here up til the british came and stole everything. turned us into one of the most livable countries on the planet.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

Well i guess i can only be grateful it was british who colonized the country and not the french or Spanish whos colonies are 100% shit holes.

Hell my ancestors were the ones who welcomed all the white people here with open arms due to a prophecy from the high priest who predicted white skinned people would appear one day and everything would change 200 years before the British turned up. Due to that they were welcomed and given muskets where my tribe i am from promptly murdered most of the country with said muskets for revenge over countless wars and conquered alot of land for their British rulers. So yeah ill admit that it was not a pretty site to behold but it was the tribal human culture that had been cut off from everywhere for a long time and that was the way of life. Infact people here quickly adapted learnt english alot faster than most colonies which impressed the British missionaries and alot of people converted to Christianity and gave up cannibalism and tribal warfare. But the british tricked the people and still stole alot of land which is been given back finally after 150 years

 

[Xorkoth]

The last page or so left a bad taste in my mouth, maybe let's try not to be so personal about things? Jesus christ. Too far, Jess

 

[JessFR]

The last page or so left a bad taste in my mouth, maybe let's try not to be so personal about things? Jesus christ. Too far, Jess

Which part specifically? If something I said came off wrong I'd like a chance to explain. Or if something I said came off right I'd like a chance to expand on it.

If it's just the whole thing generally, then I suppose there's not much I can say.

Other than to say... I hate racism, but I don't live in fear that what I say might come off sounding racist, cause the truth is there's sooo many racists who try to hide behind being supposedly anti racist.

People who try to subtly redefine racism.

I define racism to he the hatered of or feeling superior towards or thinking as inferior of other races.

Which is completely separate from disliking or even hating certain cultures. We are all impacted by the cultures we grew up in. And because of racial stigma cultures have a tendency to become linked to race, but they're still in no way inherent.

I do not believe that Maori or islanders have to act like thugs like TripSitterNZ portrays them. It's crap. It's purely people embracing a destructive and self harming culture and having a misguided belief that being part of that culture is what you have to be to be of that race. It's crap.

I'm not gonna take trayvon Martin's side because he was black. He was in the wrong,he started the fight. And likewise I won't take the cops side when they shoot unarmed black men in the street with no provocation just because they're white or because they're police.

I will take the side the evidence shows as being correct regardless of the racial makeups involved.

And likewise I will attack destructive and misogynistic cultures regardless of what race of any they're associated with. I refuse to stay silent because foolish people might consider it racist and would rather we just look the other way.

And I absolutely refuse to justify, defend, or lesson acts of violence on the basis that "they can't help it its part of their culture". That is total racist crap. They can help it and there are plenty of non violent people of every race and noone should stay silent while certain bad eggs try and claim they should get away with violence because of their race or their persecution or whatever other excuse they've got.

That's what I believe. And that's where I'm coming from here.

 

[Xorkoth]

Just your general tone is really aggressive and insulting/mocking to TS...

I don't know, it just seems needlessly personal and aggressive. Would you want someone to talk to you like that?

I agree with your core point about violence, 100%, but I'm willing to bet TripSitter feels pretty disrespected by the way you communicated your point.

It just rubbed me the wrong way so I felt like I had to say something.

 

[JessFR]

Just your general tone is really aggressive and insulting/mocking to TS... like this one in particular made me cringe:



I don't know, it just seems needlessly personal and aggressive. Would you want someone to talk to you like that?

I agree with your core point about violence, 100%, but I'm willing to bet TripSitter feels pretty disrespected by the way you communicated your point.

It just rubbed me the wrong way so I felt like I had to say something.

Fair enough, I just really really despise this justification of wanton violence as being "part of my culture and its racist to say it's wrong!". It's such crap.

I experienced violence growing up, and it infuriates me that we sit by and often do so little about the continuing abuse in minority communities because people are too afraid of being see as racist if they act.

So it infuriates me to hear someone so casually justify and defend this crap.

Im not exactly gonna be I inclined to worry about the feelings or respect of someone who repeatedly has defended committing unprovoked violence towards people cause he feels disrespected and he's too spineless to say anything about the culture that encourages it.

If people don't say anything if they keep playing it down.. nothing will ever change.

And honestly.. That quote of mine you listed.. I entirely mean it in the most literal sense. The actual white racists out there, they loooove this shit. They wanna divide people and get more white people to hate other racists. And taking people of minority races who support and defend wanton violence in the streets is an exceptionally effective tactic to turn more people to their cause.

If you're on the fence and you see minorities who deliberately portray themselves as thugs and defend attacking people and some nonsense code of street justice, it's easily enough to flip people from in the fence to supporting actual racist politics.

Most people out there, they just wanna be left alone. So what are they gonna think when they're shown someone of a minority group happily defending beating someone in the street cause he decided he thought he was a racist by how he looked. And not only that but saying that all the rest of his race are the same. That any of them might attack you over nothing at any time and they think that's perfectly OK.

They're gonna wanna segregate. And segregation only feeds racism. To fight racism people need to come further together not further apart.

 

[andyturbo]

A worthless comment from andyturbo but fuck the whole racism issues really do my head in. Why cant we ALL as human beings.. acknowledge (and not forget) the wrong doings of many colours and races in the past but MOVE ON as united humans.

We have millions starving to death in some countries yet people killing/bashing eachother over longtime race issues..

My dream.. i know it wont happen anytime soon

 

[Deru]

The recent post directed toward @TripSitterNZ has been deleted for violation of CEPS Forum Guidelines #1. I understand people feel passionately about these topics, but if you feel your argument needs to escalate to be directed towards an individual to prove your point, it may be best to temporarily disengage from the conversation.