Election 2020 The Final Countdown v. Nov. 3rd

[Deru]

EDIT: wait... 12,284 was exactly the margin before the recount wasn't it... now I'm confused?

According to the summary, the original margin was +12,780 Biden and the risk-limiting full hand count was +12,284 Biden. The difference was +469 Trump for a +0.0099% Trump.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

So, he needs approximately 80,000 votes across at least four states and so far he has 469 votes in one state... I wonder when @dalpat and @JGrimez will admit defeat. Will they wait until Biden is literally sitting in the oval office? Or is that too soon?

Even if it was +2,284 for Biden, he still lost Georgia.
How can't win without Georgia. So, he's lost.

 

[JGrimez]

For this. And other statements like it. I'm saying, the stuff you posted, and Twitter link, are not sources. They're people saying stuff. people can say anything on the Internet, you need to have a real source. I'm sure if you are wrapped in a social media bubble, it appears self-evident because all you see is people saying all this stuff you're saying. That is not the same as a real source. And you know this, mannnn.

This is ironic since you believe Biden is president-elect when he in fact is not, according to the US constitution.

I'm not here to force-feed information to people too lazy to search for it themselves and who will not believe direct proof anyway.

 

[Deru]

I wonder when @dalpat and @JGrimez will admit defeat.

From the sounds of it, not until Congress certifies the electoral votes.

Until then, it will be nothing more than unofficial and technically incorrect.

Nevermind the fact that “unofficial president-elect” has precedent going back years and years, I guess, the MSM (and our processes) just can’t be trusted

 

[birdup.snaildown]

This is ironic since you believe Biden is president-elect when he in fact is not, according to the US constitution.

He will be the president-elect very soon. You're making a meaningless pedantic distinction.

I'm not here to force-feed information to people too lazy to search for it themselves and who will not believe direct proof anyway.

Weak excuse.

Man, some right wing people make it hard to remain right of center... but then I felt the same when I was on the other side. Why is everyone crazy except for me?

 

[JessFR]

Georgia confirms Biden victory and finds no widespread fraud after statewide audit



alasdair

Oh I'm shocked who could have seen that coming!

From the sounds of it, not until Congress certifies the electoral votes.

Until then, it will be nothing more than unofficial and technically incorrect.

Nevermind the fact that “unofficial president-elect” has precedent going back years and years, I guess, the MSM (and our processes) just can’t be trusted

I don't recall anyone on the right, or o n the left for that matter, crying this "msm doesn't declare president elect!" until 2020. Including when Trump won the election.

They're just bad losers who accept that most americans didn't want trump.

Dalpat doesn't seem quite as extreme so I'm not gonna make a prediction, but I don't expect JGrimez will ever admit trump lost. Just like trump himself, he will simply say there was a conspiracy to steal the election and that it was successful.

They can't accept being a minority.

 

[JGrimez]

Exactly, I've offered so much information to this forum in the past. There were a few who appreciated it but most people stick their fingers in their ears or they only hear what confirms their pre-existing beliefs. I'm not even right-wing just to show you how ridiculous your presumptions are.

By the way if we were to weigh up accurate predictions and analysis over the past term I wonder who would come out on top? Let's see: called Donald Trump, Mueller fizzle, FISAgate, Syria false flag, Epstein, NXIVM just to name a few (most people still don't know about NXIVM thanks to the super trustworthy lying-by-omission leftist media). I was right about covid too (economic destruction, mandated vaccinations, global reset) but many people are still in heavy denial there.

So basically my only advice at this point which I have repeated ad nauseum - stop listening to sources that have been proven to bullshit you. Don't allow them to deflect their lies by passing the blame onto the "enemy". For eg. if Trump somehow does pull out a miraculous win (which is still possible under the legal framework) the media will paint it as a Trump coup - but their followers won't call them out for lying about Biden being president-elect -their hate and anger will be misdirected elsewhere.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

stop listening to sources that have been proven to bullshit you

Okay, where is your source?

 

[JessFR]

Exactly, I've offered so much information to this forum in the past. There were a few who appreciated it but most people stick their fingers in their ears or they only hear what confirms their pre-existing beliefs. I'm not even right-wing just to show you how ridiculous your presumptions are.

By the way if we were to weigh up accurate predictions and analysis over the past term I wonder who would come out on top? Let's see: called Donald Trump, Mueller fizzle, Syria false flag, Epstein, NXIVM just to name a few (most people still don't know about NXIVM thanks to the super trustworthy lying-by-omission leftist media). I was right about covid too (economic destruction, mandated vaccinations, global reset) but many people are still in heavy denial there.

So basically my only advice at this point which I have repeated ad nauseum - stop listening to sources that have been proven to bullshit you. Don't allow them to deflect their lies by passing the blame onto the "enemy". For eg. if Trump somehow does pull out a miraculous win (which is still possible under the legal framework) the media will paint it as a Trump coup - but their followers won't call them out for lying about Biden being president-elect -their hate and anger will be misdirected elsewhere.

I seem to recall you saying trump would win, that was wrong. But even if you didn't (I accept I might be remembering this from someone else saying it), what mandatory vaccinations have there been in the US? or anywhere?

Seems like you've only been right because you're making yourself right.

 

[JessFR]

stop listening to sources that have been proven to bullshit you.

I'm trying too, that's why I put you on ignore.

 

[JGrimez]

but I don't expect JGrimez will ever admit trump lost. Just like trump himself, he will simply say there was a conspiracy to steal the election and that it was successful.

Like you did for the past 4 years without evidence?
The Dems spent the past 4 years saying that Trump was not the legitimate president so what I've been hearing now is a bit rich.

The flip-flopping and false equivalencies are next-level but I'm not surprised. Do whatever it takes to win. Seize power at all costs, the ends justifies the means.
And if systemic fraud does get exposed, then the Democratic Part is in real trouble. So I get it.

 

[JessFR]

I am not "the Dems"
I have said for the last 4 years that I think it's silly to argue that trump stole the election just cause Americans are so effortlessly manipulated.

I have NEVER said trump stole the election.

Far as I'm aware I'm actually one of two people here now that you've assumed believe trump was illegitimately elected when we didn't because of your "all leftists are the same" bullshit.

Trump IS trying to steal it this time though.

Nothings gonna get exposed though cause there is no systemic fraud. Trumps gonna lose office. And you're gonna spend the next 4 years crying fraud.

 

[JGrimez]

I seem to recall you saying trump would win, that was wrong. But even if you didn't (I accept I might be remembering this from someone else saying it), what mandatory vaccinations have there been in the US? or anywhere?

Seems like you've only been right because you're making yourself right.

Well for me it was the same prediction as last election - Trump wins a fair election but I expect the Dems to steal it (why else would they not update their electoral systems yet?).
Last time they failed - which is why they didn't demand a recount - but blamed Russia instead.
This time they succeeded but anyone who was watching it real-time on election night can see what happened - Trump running away with it, they could've called it at that point but instead they stopped counting and waited for mail votes to arrive overnight that were all for Biden. It's incredibly obvious but yes you do need evidence, and the Trump haters/Biden supporters will be willing to temporarily turn a blind eye to this. Which is sad because regardless of who wins it's destroying the democratic framework of the republic. That's why I don't care if Trump loses- IF it's a legitimate vote. So lying and saying that there's no fraud doesn't help electoral integrity, it just lends weight to a cover-up. But if the Left were also demanding recounts and investigations then afterwards the Trump supporters will not have much of an argument.

 

[sekio]

anyone who was watching it real-time on election night can see what happened - Trump running away with it, they could've called it at that point but instead they stopped counting and waited for mail votes to arrive overnight

In many states, mail in ballots cannot even begin to be counted until after the polls close. Are you implying that the mail in ballots should have been discarded? What kind of a fair election would that be?

were all for Biden

Hmm, maybe the fact that the Republicans have been claiming that mail in ballots are fraudulent, and the whole coronavirus situation, have something to do with that?

That's why I don't care if Trump loses- IF it's a legitimate vote.

In Trump's world, any vote where he isn't the winner must be illegitimate.

regardless of who wins it's destroying the democratic framework of the republic [...] So lying and saying that there's no fraud doesn't help electoral integrity

Bold claims, but the evidence just isn't there. You want to see a rigged election? Check out what happened in Belarus this year.

 

[dalpat077]

Well. It had to come. And here it is. Sincere apologies for the delay.

I'm not going to quote posts here. There's too many of them. But it'll not be rocket science to figure out to what and to whom I'm responding to.

Let me begin by saying that one or two posts made since yesterday sure do have an isolationist flavor to them (not sure I'd use the word xenophobic). That's pretty ironic given that is what most Americans have just, apparently, voted against and voted out.

As for my mouthing off here to simply be contrarian: far from it. Not to mention the other comment as to whether or not this is some type of game to me. And let's not forget the insinuation that this has nothing to do with foreigners (although see first paragraph again). Let me tell you a little story. One Tuesday afternoon, in a previous life, I just happened to be watching CNN. I remember clearly as a DVD had just finished playing and I switched over to CNN. I remember it like it was this morning. The date: 11 September 2001! By that time: the first plane had hit. I thought it was an accident. But then I watched the next plane hit as it happened. Live. Up until that day: I had little more than a passing interest in American politics (or any other politics for that matter). To me and up until that time: America was just the place where the best stuff came from (goods and services I'm talking about here just in case there's any misinterpretations). And a part of my business at the time was inexorably linked to the New York Stock Exchange (hence my always having Bloomberg or CNN going somewhere). That day changed things for me. I would have fucking upped myself and fought for your country had it been an option. I lived through that with you. And ever since then: America and its well being have been on my radar. I lived through the housing bubble, credit crunch, and financial crisis with you. I watched those iconic banks and big firms and the economy go down. And it pained me in my gut (and I don't mean financially) (although it didn't help matters either but that's of no consequence). I lived through that with you. I sat glued to live broadcasts of Senate hearings etc. for months and months on end knowing I was seeing history in the making. And it was a source of pride for me to see how things were handled. I lived with that through you. And somebody has the cheek to insinuate that I think this may be a game? I'll refrain from using expletives here! But I think you get the general picture anyway. I don't think that any of this is a game. It pains me to see how this has all turned out. And it saddens me. And for what reason is beyond me (even more so today after I see some of the posts that have been made here since yesterday). So there's your gamer and foreigner's feelings and take on matters and why the strong feelings on matters. Your election results are not going to change my life not one iota. It's obviously just some sense of, evidently misguided, pride that I had in America. And its past.

So there you have it.

I'm not going around in circles with this debate any longer. I will admit that yesterday there was a fair bit of mucking about on this particular thread. And if that offended anybody or gave the wrong impression then I apologize.

Let it also be noted: I'd be mouthing off just as loudly were this any other Republican candidate. While my posts may indicate otherwise (which is my fault) I'm not into "Trump worship" per se. I'd be just as vocal if this was George W. Bush et al. To me: Trump/Republican is the same thing. But for one slight difference. I'd say he's far more right than even he will admit to. And when I hear this "Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya" liberal bullshit coming out of Biden and Harris and the rest of them: it offends me. I don't think that needs much further explanation i.e. I think I've made it clear in other posts (not on this thread) why this be the case. In fairness: this not just as it pertains to America. This crap has been tried and tested and has failed the world over. If you want to know more: feel free to go through my other posts on the other related threads.

As for those that are having a hard time under Trump? Well I feel for you. But I'll tell you this: we didn't get stimulus checks here! You know what our government gave us? Today's equivalent of $22.73 per month. And which I'd rather die than accept. And the irony: that's the best they could do after the billions of USD that's been flung this way over the decades but has been pilfered away both here and across the continent at large. Trump wanted to put a stop to this (at very least take it down a notch or twenty). But that revenue stream I'm guessing will be opened again. Not to mention the legalization of millions. Not to mention the rest that will follow. And if you think that any of this is going to improve the situation over there financially: think again. Why Trump had such a hard on to reverse every single one of Obama's policies and in particular Obamacare: I know not. But having this bunch in power is not going to make things better.

And let's not forget that I live in a country where the government has fallen over its feet to rewrite the history books and at all costs. And it's already started over there (even while under Trump and that in and of itself should be concerning). And it will not end. These are not the same Democrats that put America back on course. This is not President Clinton or President Obama. Moreover: people's attitudes the world over have changed. And Biden/Harris & Co. are for damn sure not going to go against the grain.

And lastly: don't blame me for my ignorance when it comes to what's going on there domestically. Blame your own media and citizens. I don't dream stuff up over night I assure you. I watch YOUR media. I watch YOUR citizens on YouTube. I read YOUR press releases. I listen to YOUR NPR and some localized stations. Nothing re: America comes from local sources (not that I've seen anyway so it's not like I'm influenced by somebody local who is making stuff up as they go along).

So there you have it. Straight from the heart. No mucking about this time. And probably time to move on from this too. Matter of fact: my jump in post account (again) this week says it is.

 

[JessFR]

@dalpat077

I swear I'm not trying to mock or call you a liar in saying this, I'm just wanna understand.

If you consume so much American news, how do you think it's possible that you hadn't heard the multitude of times it was brought up that mail in votes were likely to lean towards Biden?

Cause the other day you asked if it was just coincidence that so many mail ins were for biden and a few people got on your case about how you didn't seem to have ever heard the reason, in spite of it being mentioned lots of times by lots of media outlets in the lead up to the election.

I just assumed that must have meant you hadn't consumed much news in the lead-up to the election, but then just now you indicated that you did which bring it back into my mind again.

Why do you think you hadn't heard many times how mail ins were likely to learn democratic, and that as a result and due to Republicans trying to prevent vote counting before the election that there would likely be a so called "red Mirage" where trump initially appears to be winning only for Biden to come back as the mail ins were counted.

Again I'm just asking cause I'm curious. Cause I had heard the likely hood of, well honestly pretty much everything that's happened since the election was held a great many times going as far back as at least september.

As wild as 2020 has been, the actual election itself has been surprisingly consistent with expectations if your expectations were based on "mainstream" thinking. The only thing that was wrong is the polls indicated Biden would win by a landslide. And while he won, it wasn't a landslide and the results state by state didn't match the polls. Other than that though, trump refusing to concede, him initially being ahead only to ultimately lose and then using that fact to cast doubt on the whole process. All of it is stuff I've heard predicted what feels like most of the year.

 

[JessFR]

To give one of the most spot on examples. This is an interview with Sanders from before the election dated Oct 23. It's 7 minutes long but you can skip to 2:30 minutes in.

In it Bernie Sanders pretty much spot on predicts how trump would, and has acted in the election.

And this isn't the only examples it's just one of the most concise and eerie.

And this is why for those of us who oppose trump it's so frustrating to have trump supporters act like the election is being stolen, pretending there was ever any chance whatsoever that they were gonna accept a legitimate Biden win.

Those of us who've been watching have seen trump set it all up for months before the election. Appointing a political puppet as postmaster. Removing post boxes, destroying usps equipment, deliberately withholding usps funding and openly saying it's to sabotage mail in voting.

All to try and stop democrats from voting cause he knows they won't wanna vote in person in a pandemic. And because he knows that very high vote turnouts favor the democrats (because most Americans actually aren't Republicans)

And all so that when the election happens, if it doesn't go his way in spite of his attempts to suppress the democratic vote turnout, he can cry fraud.

So it's immensely frustrating to see him be so transparent about his attempts to manipulate the election result and make false cries of fraud. And for his diehard supporters to either pretend, or be too brainwashed to see, how transparent he's been about his plan to do this months ahead of time.

The only excuse they have is that he wanted to stop mail in voting because he knew it would be used for fraud, but he's the fucking president, head of the executive branch. If that were the truth you don't suppress people from voting in the middle of a pandemic, and you certainly don't vote by mail yourself (and trump did, as he does every election). you begin open, independent investigations with the evidence and concerns you have ahead of time to try and ensure there's no fraud in the first place. He didn't because deep down he knows there's no fraud.


This kinda stuff is why we hate him. Because he's a critical threat to American democracy. Because to behave like that shows he has zero respect for America's laws or his oath to the constitution or the right of Americans to decide their leadership.

I understand how trump diehards can pretend they don't see it and lie to themselves and others. I don't understand how the more reasonable trump voters (and I accept they exist) either don't know or don't care about it.

 

[mal3volent]

Like you did for the past 4 years without evidence?
The Dems spent the past 4 years saying that Trump was not the legitimate president so what I've been hearing now is a bit rich.

if you wanted to be fair, you'd go back further to when Trump and the right were delegitimizing Obama. Asking for his birth certificate, college records, etc.

There were no democrats refusing to call Trump president elect. Obama invited him to the White House. He went to his inauguration. The Dems who did think he was in bed with Putin, even they didn't refuse him security briefings or the funds to ensure a proper transition. They waited, investigated, and impeached him through a perfectly constitutional process. You may disagree with their conclusions , but they acted fairly and constitutionally.

 

[JessFR]

if you wanted to be fair, you'd go back further to when Trump and the right were delegitimizing Obama. Asking for his birth certificate, college records, etc.

There were no democrats refusing to call Trump president elect. Obama invited him to the White House. He went to his inauguration. The Dems who did think he was in bed with Putin, even they didn't refuse him security briefings or the funds to ensure a proper transition. They waited, investigated, and impeached him through a perfectly constitutional process. You may disagree with their conclusions , but they acted fairly and constitutionally.

More to the point. They didn't put the whole country at risk out of sheer spite.

That's what trumps doing. Deliberately damaging the country he's sworn to protect so he can later blame it all on biden. Biden was vice president, there's zero cause to deny him security briefing that he will need when (or if you wanna have your head in the sand, if) he takes office.

And once again just like the election fraud his fanatics will lap it up.

 

[dalpat077]

@dalpat077

I swear I'm not trying to mock or call you a liar in saying this, I'm just wanna understand.

If you consume so much American news, how do you think it's possible that you hadn't heard the multitude of times it was brought up that mail in votes were likely to lean towards Biden?

Cause the other day you asked if it was just coincidence that so many mail ins were for biden and a few people got on your case about how you didn't seem to have ever heard the reason, in spite of it being mentioned lots of times by lots of media outlets in the lead up to the election.

I just assumed that must have meant you hadn't consumed much news in the lead-up to the election, but then just now you indicated that you did which bring it back into my mind again.

Why do you think you hadn't heard many times how mail ins were likely to learn democratic, and that as a result and due to Republicans trying to prevent vote counting before the election that there would likely be a so called "red Mirage" where trump initially appears to be winning only for Biden to come back as the mail ins were counted.

Again I'm just asking cause I'm curious. Cause I had heard the likely hood of, well honestly pretty much everything that's happened since the election was held a great many times going as far back as at least september.

As wild as 2020 has been, the actual election itself has been surprisingly consistent with expectations if your expectations were based on "mainstream" thinking. The only thing that was wrong is the polls indicated Biden would win by a landslide. And while he won, it wasn't a landslide and the results state by state didn't match the polls. Other than that though, trump refusing to concede, him initially being ahead only to ultimately lose and then using that fact to cast doubt on the whole process. All of it is stuff I've heard predicted what feels like most of the year.

Hey. Hello.

To be clear: I wasn't ASKING if it was a coincidence. I was being facetious and sarcastic.

And yes (no more joking around): I heard and read all the news (not all but you know what I mean) re: these mail in or absentee ballots and from both sides. It's my fault that my mucking about yesterday would lead somebody to think I don't know what I'm talking about (with regard to these ballots). I'm well aware of the history, the whys, and the wherefores for mail in or absentee ballots. But we're not talking about the 1800's or 1900's here. Matter of fact we're not even talking about the early 2000's here anymore. This was an election like no other. The stakes were high. And Trump is polarizing to say the least (although as is blatantly obvious from my heartfelt post of earlier this morning it's not something I have an issue with and for the reasons I've given). I think he knows that. I think he knew that. And I can understand why he is calling foul because of these ballots. Have they been valid for past elections? Probably. Just not this one. Could this whole system have been changed in the last four years? I'm guessing not. Ironically though (and I'm not getting into the argument again about the current election results): they have indeed been used in the past to influence or rather, to be more accurate, ensure the outcome of an election. Just not by fraud. But rather strategy. And that was before technology. And from what I gather or have read: it sort of caught on from there (for reasons which I really don't agree with but that's just me).

As I've noted though: I can only base my opinions (albeit that they're evidently not welcome) on what I see, read, and hear coming from America itself. Trying to sift through what's factual and correct and what's made up or is fictional or has an agenda to it or doesn't? That's the key. And I don't believe I've found the sweet spot. If it exists at all. But it's frightening and overwhelming the effect that the media and the rest can have on public opinion. And I fear it only gets worse from here (if that's even possible).