exit plans

sekio

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,994
So, recently I experienced a life-changing spinal injury resulting in paralysis from the chest down (ASEA A, T4 complete). My life has totally been turned upside down. As a result I have been giving serious consideration to coming up with a plan to allow me to end my life in a peaceful and orderly manner, if I find that in the future my body just can't hack it any more.

I am by no means suicidal but I am seriously considering coming up with an "exit plan" so that if my situation deteriorates to the point where I feel that my suffering greatly outweighs my ability to produce positive change in the world I have an option for relief. For instance, if my paralysis becomes total and I am rendered quadriplegic, or I am totally bedridden and unable to leave my room indefinitely, I can relieve myself one last time, forever. The specific method isn't important. I would like to have another trusted individual agree that my situation is unsalvageable before I do anything though, have a few other individuals informed of my intent, and also have a waiting period of a week or so between my initial decision and the day I follow through, so that I can give serious consideration to my decision to self-terminate, and allow others to say a proper goodbye.

I'm very hesitant to discuss this with anyone because I don't want to end up stuck in a psych ward because someone decides I have suicidal ideation. The only reason I am considering this is because I have a major physical disability which causes significant amount of pain.

What do you guys think? Is this too morbid? Would any of you consider having an "exit plan" if you suffered a major injury?

(Please don't worry about me, either. I reiterate, I'm not thinking of checking out any time soon. If anything, I actually think I'm doing okay, all things considered. My pain is manageable and my body is healthy (except the paralysis part). I have no reason to go, and besides, this forum would fall apart without me anyway :))
 
We are voting to legalize euthanasia in NZ next month so its something i have been thinking about when it comes to voting and im going to vote yes.

Im sorry this has happened to you and people deserve the right to make a informed decision once they have a life disability that causes them pain so they can find peace instead of going through torment daily. Its something that only the person and their close family members can decide in the end if the pain was unbearable and life became a living hell then every person in that situation should have the right to euthanasia.



If i came down with a major injury that disabled me im not sure what i would do i always told myself i would just take endless amounts of lsd if it bought me some sense of happiness and if nothing eased the pain then i would look into exiting though my own beliefs on the afterlife etc i would most likely go through with it to have a peaceful rest in whatever awaits.


Some people find this sort of topic hard to talk about and its something as country that we are going to vote on and i hope that it does become legal here for those suffering from terminal illness that is painful or disability.

I believe its a logical thing to think about but if things do get worse please don't hide it from the people closest to you and open up to them to come up with your decision. No one should live through unbearable pain or judged wanting to end their lives if all things have been exhausted and there is no fight left in the person it is cruel to deny that person their right to die in a peaceful way.

I wish you the best in your life and hope things don't get any worse please reach out if things get worse your posts are always really informative and your a well respected member here.
 
You are not alone @sekio
Just check out this dude:
NSFW:

Some people find ways around their disability, and from the threads,posts and forum you mod you seem like a good dude, just in a shitty situation. Why not do something positive?

Have you considered some psychedelic's? I've read reports of people having severe issues mentally & physically, and willl take ayahuasca, and it helps them. Would that be something you would be willing to do?
 
If I ever reached the point of serious physical disability and pain I wouldn't want to stick around for it to be honest, I think that everyone should be able to check out when their lives reach an unbearable/unmanageable point like that. In Europe, namely Switzerland we have Dignitas a not for profit organisation which allows people to die with dignity. I believe euthanasia should be legal.
 
Some people find ways around their disability, and from the threads,posts and forum you mod you seem like a good dude, just in a shitty situation. Why not do something positive?
I am doing my best to stay positive. I would say I have a very positive outlook and feel that managing my condition is within my ability. I have plenty of support, both from peers in meatspace as well as many internet friends (not to mention all of you lovely BLers). I managed to end up in a wheelchair-equipped suite at my apartment, I am receiving money from the government as well as medical supplies, and despite my lack of usable legs I can still get around where I need to go.

It's not impossible to end up in a situation where you are no longer able to make or carry out such "exit plan" and then you have no choice but to live through "whatever" until you die (painfully) of natural causes if it's a physical issue.
This is exactly what I want to avoid. I want to have a clear plan in case I find I can no longer function for whatever reason. I'm not ready to leave this mortal plane yet anyway, there's still drugs to do and people to educate.

Have you considered some psychedelic's?
I have, but I am hesitant to take any because I read they can exacerbate spasticity in people with spinal injury (I get spasms in my paralyzed half when I change posture or manipulate my legs, and take baclofen, nabilone, and THC for them). I don't want to spend my LSD trip having my legs flail around and my abs tensing up for 8 hours or more.
I'll probably bite the bullet and try a small dose once I feel settled in my apartment.
 
I was weary about mentioning it myself and forgot that group charges for the book. They have other rules concerning age and your condition as well IIRC. As with all things the book can be found for free in several places but is usually an older edition. I've also heard the stories of shipments not making it to their destination as well. There seem to be a lot of folks out there desperate enough to send several hundred dollars to people that are willing to rip them off.

I consider the information harm reduction and learned all of this stuff after watching a family member suffer for many weeks when no one was willing to supply them with the means. I decided then that I would have a plan in place should things get really bad for me later in life. I know a lot of people with similar plans. I don't want to lay in a bed for weeks knowing nothing can be done. I don't want to burden others with bringing me the means if I decide it's needed.

I know OP isn't attention seeking and didn't see much harm in pointing him in the right direction. In the old days before medical industry got so focused on profits it was common for your GP to give you a bit of help near the end. They'd send you home for Christmas with a bottle of pills and instructions to combine them a bed time. Now they make more profit keeping you alive to experiment on. They want to run up that bill and milk your insurance company and estate for everything they can get.
 
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I'm a confirmed bachelor. No kids.

Already read the ------- some years ago, I just torrented it. I'm a chemist at heart, if I needed a barbiturate I'd make it myself, the synthesis is not hard at all. Besides I don't want to deal with trying to source a scheduled drug from some Mexican "pharmacy" and risk it being seized or whatever.
That said, I'm not concerned about specific methods. I think I can figure it out on my own. (Not going to shoot myself, not going to jump from height (already did that), nothing too dramatic.

On the subject of your actual condition. I've had two friends that suffered from paralysis from the chest down. Both of them ended up dying because of the same thing: Infection. Please try to take good care of your feet.
My feet? I'm more worried about my kidneys and bowel TBH.
 
I met a Suicidology researcher about 40 years ago so I know what you are talking about Seiko, I don't know what to say. If I had my choice I'd die naturally with no pain killers or aenasthetics, with my family around.

Edit: I misremembered, it was about 30 years ago in a insurance claim
 
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Sekio,
I’m so sorry to hear this. It’s fabulous that your outlook remains positive and that you have lots of support around you, IRL and online. I’m happy that you have financial assistance, as well.
A family member went through something similar, though it hadn’t been determined his broken neck would lead to any paralysis. He simply grew tired of living with the halo, smelling delicious food while he was forced to get his nutrition via a gastrostomy tube, and not being able to resume his normally active life. The sad thing is that he had lived with his broken neck for almost 3 months and was due to resume life without the halo and feeding tube in 6 weeks. I guess the thought of living as he had been living, for 1.5 months longer, really had become unbearable.
Only we can determine for ourselves when the scale shifts, and when the quality of our life is now outweighed by unmanageable pain and a lack of hope for any brighter future.
I’m glad you are positive and that is not the prevailing sentiment in your case. There is nothing wrong with preparing an exit plan in the event that things change. I hope you never have to use it, but only you can make that determination, Sekio.
 
What do you guys think? Is this too morbid? Would any of you consider having an "exit plan" if you suffered a major injury?

It's not too morbid at all. You have suffered what is a catastrophic injury to the spine and as a result you have lost much of your ability to do things that the rest of us take for granted. I do not consider your decision or discussing the possibility of ending it to be morbid at all. I hate suffering of any and all kinds, from physical to mental suffering, irrespective of the cause.

You are an adult and in my opinion you have every right to decide whether or not your current health is acceptable to you or not.

If it means anything to you, I went through a recent crisis and was about to overdose on barbiturates, and what I was dealing with was no where near as bad as what you are dealing with, health-wise, but emotionally I was in a very dark place and still am to some extent. It's all about what we are willing to tolerate. You have the right to decide what is right for you and don't ever let anyone try to tell you otherwise.
 
@sekio : My deepest condolences for what you're going through and mad respect for how you're handling what has to be incomprehensible sorrow. What you're going through is literally my worst nightmare. I'm cleithrophobic, so living in that condition was simply not an option for me.

I can't tell you how relieved I was when I got to the hospital after my neck injury last year and found out for certain that though my injury was extremely painful and would be for the foreseeable future, I wouldn't be facing any kind of paralysis. My thought processes were very similar to what you're thinking during my transportation to the hospital.
 
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So, recently I experienced a life-changing spinal injury resulting in paralysis from the chest down (ASEA A, T4 complete). My life has totally been turned upside down. As a result I have been giving serious consideration to coming up with a plan to allow me to end my life in a peaceful and orderly manner, if I find that in the future my body just can't hack it any more.

I am by no means suicidal but I am seriously considering coming up with an "exit plan" so that if my situation deteriorates to the point where I feel that my suffering greatly outweighs my ability to produce positive change in the world I have an option for relief. For instance, if my paralysis becomes total and I am rendered quadriplegic, or I am totally bedridden and unable to leave my room indefinitely, I can relieve myself one last time, forever. The specific method isn't important. I would like to have another trusted individual agree that my situation is unsalvageable before I do anything though, have a few other individuals informed of my intent, and also have a waiting period of a week or so between my initial decision and the day I follow through, so that I can give serious consideration to my decision to self-terminate, and allow others to say a proper goodbye.

I'm very hesitant to discuss this with anyone because I don't want to end up stuck in a psych ward because someone decides I have suicidal ideation. The only reason I am considering this is because I have a major physical disability which causes significant amount of pain.

What do you guys think? Is this too morbid? Would any of you consider having an "exit plan" if you suffered a major injury?

(Please don't worry about me, either. I reiterate, I'm not thinking of checking out any time soon. If anything, I actually think I'm doing okay, all things considered. My pain is manageable and my body is healthy (except the paralysis part). I have no reason to go, and besides, this forum would fall apart without me anyway :))

I'm so sorry mate. I've never had to go through something like this, but have always thought if I did end up in a bad situation, I would definitely have an exit plan. That's all I can really say about it as it's kind of a morbid topic as you said, but I really wish you the best and will pray to my God that it never comes to this (unless you are opposed, sorry I've become very spiritual lately and its helped with my mental health tons).
 
My feet? I'm more worried about my kidneys and bowel TBH.

Both of my friends died from open sores on their feet that became infected. I guess when you can't feel them you forget to check them and it's easy to injure them without noticing it.
 
my situation is not remotely comparable to yours, because i haven't had such an injury. i'm really sorry that you have, and i can see why you want an exit plan if it gets too much. BUT i have been using the 'i'll kill myself in a week if i haven't seen any improvement' trick for maybe 10 years and it has saved my life multiple times. it makes you feel better in that instant, because you know you would carry it through and end your suffering. it can be a bit difficult when you first crack a smile, then you realise you can't kill yourself cos you have felt better, but you've also felt better so are less committed to ending it all.

i think the idea of having trusted people is a good one, but you have to pick the right ones. obviously no one with hardcore religious beliefs that would prohibit such a thing, or who would stand to gain from your death. but also its a fuckload of responsibility on the person so you need someone who will rise to that challenge. i could imagine a lot of people saying yes but not really taking you seriously til the time comes. or someone understanding you're serious but then feel responsible for causing your death. it might be worth bringing it up in the way you have here with people who you think could do it.

i'm glad you're feeling ok and that this is just future planning in case it does get too hard. i don't think there is anything morbid with realistically considering that, were your condition to deteriorate, you wouldn't want to be trapped in your body. i hope you are getting adequate psychological support as well as the physical. i can't honestly imagine many bigger challenges and it seems like you're rising to it.
 
Hi sek,

I was going to PM this to you but decided to keep it public in case someone else may benefit.

We live in the same region (though I am temporarily not there, if I was I'd visit you). There is government assisted euthanasia available to you and I am certain you would qualify. The program is called MAID. I know this because I applied and was accepted twice, but then aborted the process once my health made a turnaround -- which it did, both times, unusually. However, you and I both have different circumstances, and I am not going to even attempt to compare.

You need a supportive doctor who agrees with your personal assessment of your condition. That's all. You don't need two doctors, you don't need a specialist, you just need an MD who is willing to be there to send in your application and possibly administer the life ending medication, unless they hand that job to someone else. I was fortunate in that my doctor agreed because my quality of life got so horrible and my suffering was intense with little hope. There is a two week waiting period between time of application and approval. It doesn't matter how urgent your doctor marks the application, they will make you wait 2 weeks for ethical reasons. There are intentional barriers to access so that you think about it over and over with each step. In the weeks leading up, they will go over what will happen on the day you do it, many times, along with your rationale, even if you've already done it. They will ask you where you want to be (home or hospital), they will ask if you want to be alone or with friends/family. On the day you are given the IV meds, they will check in with you multiple times. And in the final moment they will inform you that they are going to give you a drug that will 100% definitely end your life, and ask if you still want it. If you don't give an affirmative yes at each step, the process will be called into question and won't go forward.

While the application for the process is happening, you need to get a DNR (do not resuscitate) order put on your file. This is because if, theoretically, the euthanasia drug doesn't kill you outright, they won't have a right to rescue you. But this is unlikely. You may also want to get a living will done. If you google wills and your province, you will get a provincial will kit. If you can't move to do the will yourself, you can get someone to write it out for you (they will have to sign indicating they wrote it for you). You can also do funeral planning and whatever else at the same time. Fortunately in our province, a lot can be done without a lawyer, you just need two or three people on board who can sign, witness, etc. They all have to sign in front of one another, they can't sign at separate times. Then they all receive copies of what they just signed. If you don't have that many people in your life then you will have to go the lawyer route.

I had many factors at work: intense pain and debility, low income, very little human resource to help me in my day to day except my mother who couldn't do it forever, not much possibility of gainful employment, no prospect of being of service to the world or humanity, and a future life of unending loneliness and isolation. Also, the government had cut all public funding for home care a couple of years prior, so there was no way for me to afford a caregiver who would visit me once a day. My spiritual beliefs dictate that I couldn't continue to live under such circumstances. Because my health eventually shifted and I became functional again, a lot more was possible. This may happen to you, and I would encourage you to not necessarily rest on the laurels of what your current medical team are telling you. The reason I say this is because the medical expertise in our area of the world FUCKING SUCKS. They have huge egos so it makes it seem like they know their shit but honestly they are backwater. If you have any agency to go elsewhere, or at least communicate with elsewhere to find out possibilities, I would try that. Our region is typically middle rung medicine, they aren't known for anything special. People don't come from all over the world to get X treatment done on them. I was only able to somewhat pull myself out of my private hell there because I did unending research and communicated with experts around the world, despite the ongoing denials of my local doctors. The system there is also so strapped for cash that their medical opinions are heavily skewed by quotas and internal resource management.

So... have the euthanasia option in your back pocket, but pursue alternatives. I don't personally know a lot about spinal injuries, but I do know a lot about the diversity of global medicine. For example, I found out that in the Bahamas they do stem cell treatments for inflammatory bowel (which I have) for $10,000 USD. I found out that in Australia and NZ they diagnose and treat SIBO, a kind of dysbiosis of the bowel, meanwhile in Canada they don't even acknowledge that this condition is real. My GI doctor (the top one in our area) actually said to my face I was wasting his time and that I should stop pursuing fantasy health conditions and just accept the reality of my disabled future, while simultaneously a doctor in Australia was getting me remotely tested for other conditions and coming up with a treatment plan. There are online communities of groups doing a lot of experimental things. Anyway... my point is, do some searching before you decide you're well and truly at your road's end. Don't string yourself along with too much false hope, just be practical and factual, you know?

You have so much of my compassion, I really do know what it's like to be where you are. Not exactly like you are, but similar vibe. The hardest part for me was listening to everyone telling me to live. I have some really, really good friends with whom I would say our bond is spiritual. Those friends said... yeah, you know, I love you so much, but if you need to end your life, I will grieve you, but I will TOTALLY understand why you are doing it because look at the hell you're going through. If our pet dog was suffering this much, they'd be put down. So why not humans? Other people, they just wanted me to live for no rhyme or reason other than their own (understandable) selfishness. Take the counsel of your loved ones, but ultimately you must do what is right for you. If there is any inkling of doubt in you, any whatsoever, you should not do it. Continue to live, even if it sucks balls, as long as that doubt about ending it is there. Sometimes, that doubt will keep you living and then you discover a new dimension to life despite the hardship, and you see a way to live that might work for you. Other times, nothing develops, the doubt fades and then you know. If one day you feel certain, and all checks and balances end up with you feeling like yes, this is what's right, then own it. You have every right to exit if this life is untenable to you. Nobody else has a right to lecture you about it. Nobody else is going to understand your life like you. It requires major soul searching and ultimately only your soul knows if you should continue or not.

If you want to talk about this more feel free to PM me. I'm even open to talking to you on the phone about it. I'm not a professional counsellor but I've been through it.
 
You are not alone @sekio
Just check out this dude:
NSFW:

Some people find ways around their disability, and from the threads,posts and forum you mod you seem like a good dude, just in a shitty situation. Why not do something positive?

Have you considered some psychedelic's? I've read reports of people having severe issues mentally & physically, and willl take ayahuasca, and it helps them. Would that be something you would be willing to do?

Psychedelics will not help, as well as other drugs if you just can move your head and arms and lying around, waiting for a lung inflammation to die. I can fully understand you sekio, because I work in the medicplaal sector and its always so hard. If YOU decide your physical life is not there anymore or it does get worse so that you have to lie in bed............ no. I would do the same.
 
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Dignitas supply the very drug that I recently flushed down the toilet due to a suicidal crisis.

Perhaps one day I may get my hands on it again in case I get some horrible disease but perhaps by then our doctors and the government might grow some empathy for patients who want out due to the pain/desperation caused by their illnesses.
 
I believe that it is a rational thing to do! we plan so much of our life , and do not want to endure any more pain and suffering than needed in life, so if it is time to go, and a trusted third party agrees that we of sound mind? Then yes an exit plan is appropriate. As a Cancer survivor who has volunteered to work with cancer patients for the last 10 years, I have seen many horrible long drawn out end of life situations that I will not choose for my end!!
" The Most EXPENSIVE two weeks of anyone's medical care in there Life time is the Last Two WEEKS!!
I will much rather have my family have my money than Drs , and hospitals, to see me die any way!!
So sorry for your accident :cry:
What happened?
Ice
 
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