Thiaminorex Sexual Aphrodisiac Stimulant..Safer Alternative to Aminorex?

[paracelsius]

It is a sulfur homolog (5-phenyl-2-amino-1,3-thiazoline) of Aminorex (5-phenyl-2-amino-1,3-oxazoline):

with the oxazoline ring of Aminorex replaced by a thiazoline. This compound has been claimed as Nootropic Anorexic and Sexual Aphrodisiacs safer than the Aryloxazolines (AR, 4-MAR, 4,4'-DMAR, pemoline, cyclazodone..etc) stimulants. Unlike aryloxazolines, it is a selective norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI) with low serotonergic SERT activity (about 80x selectivity for DAT~NET v. SERT).

Now my question is: what would make it safer? For one, less serotonergic will surely reduce the risk of (possible) toxic serotonin syndrome of large doses of non-selective SDNRI/A such as AR, 4-MAR and especially 4,4'-DMAR. But serotonergic toxicity of ARs is due to massive serotonin release (not uptake inhibition) AND the fact AR, 4-MAR, especially 4,4'-DMAR have no TAAR agonist activity like MDMA to feedback regulate levels of serotonin released.

So besides being monoamines uptake inhibitors, ARs are also potent monoamines releasers (EC50~8-20nM, 10x more potent than MDMA on avg!) with no TAAR agonist activity like MDMA and related entactogens that are also TAAR agonists in addition to being monoamines releasers. Aryloxazolines have a rather unique profile: on avg 10x more potent for DAT/NET v SERT for uptake inhibition and the exact opposite selectivity for release (10x more potent for SERT release v DA~NE!).

Now, wouldn't that compound also be a releaser?? the problem with ARs serotonin syndrome risks and sexual side-effects (stim "limp d!ck" in males) is due to serotonin release unregulated by TAAR agonism, not necessarily uptake inhibition!. I have yet to see whether this compound class (Arylthiazolines) are also releasers and if yes, what is their selectivity profile? Sure, they will be safer than Aryloxazolines if they are also selective DA/NE releasers with no or less serotonin release, in case they do have monoamines releasing properties like the Aryloxazolines. Else, they'll certainly make safer nootropic anorexic stimulants and...potent sexual aphrodisiacs devoid of sexual side-effects ("stim "limp d!ck") much like other selective NDRI/As like MDPV and other pyros.
edit: I do not endorse any NPS but for harm reduction sake, I thought this will be interesting to post on NPD.

 

[dopamimetic]

The problem with aminorexes is afaik valvuopathy because of 5HT2b agonism. Serotonin syndrome is a very rare condition and the deaths from 4,4'-DMAR usually involved combinations done because of the slow onset, or maybe very high doses. It is a MAOI which makes it different than the others but I found it because exactly this property to be surprisingly benign - in regard of serotonin depletion. The relative absence of it tells me that the compound isn't toxic but just very potent.

Abolishing the serotonin release will lead to less euphoric components.
Need to research a bit about the TAAR agonism you mentioned, I know that amphetamines are agonists there and thought it would actually lead to release?

 

[clubcard]

It's an interesting idea. I posit that synthesis is going to be a total pain. The 5HT2b that dopamimetric mentions is mostly down to the pattern of use. If you took aminorex (even at low doses) every day for months then their was certainly a risk. I've read of whole families of 4MAR makers with the classic hypertension BUT if you modify usage patterns (the MDMA mimic was safe used 1 day in 7 for 6 months in a trial with 19 users) and keep track of users then the risk can be very small.

Of course, the body loves a nice S in it's +2 oxidation state. Oxidation is a fine way to reduce LogP and render it inactive. I guess that is why +2 S is only seen in a tiny number of mind manifesting drugs. I WAS interested that McNeil used a thiomethoxy in their research chemicals that were serotonin releasers. So it would seem that it is VERY active. From my own work I nave noticed that a simple methyl moiety is still very active and of course is a convenient place for the body to metabolize the material.

If only the McN class wasn't such a pain to make. If it turns out that it's highly active then MAYBE but I must admit, I haven't looked because I cannot see it being active in the sub-mg range and the synth is only viable if that IS the case. Of course, if someone HAS read the papers then a DOI would be nice. Of course, IF someone discovered sub-MG activity then they would say nothing and make a fortune.

 

[paracelsius]

It's an interesting idea. I posit that synthesis is going to be a total pain...

You right .. I don't see easy way to get 2-mercaptophenethylamine precursors from common preprecursors, unlike with ephedrine for the oxazolines..Unless there is real advantage v oxazolines, there is no point really (may be for legal reasons where analogs laws do not apply).
But actually those are part of patent of orexin antagonists for narcolepsy adhd..etc which I think is bs cover for marketing stims!

I WAS interested that McNeil used a thiomethoxy in their research chemicals that were serotonin releasers. So it would seem that it is VERY active...

It is VERY active .. S substitution increases serotonergic release/uptake compare to H, Me, OMe..etc, not so much for DA/NE. Mostly due to increased logP. pretty much almost anything that increase ring size and/or logP will do (chloro, dichloro, tolyl, naphthyl..etc). Quite general SAR actually. It makes sense since natural serotonin substrate indole ring is larger and more lipophilic than dopamine and norepinephrine dihydroxyphenyl.. my guess the Sulfur will makes it more lipophilic (compared to AR) and probably as active as 4-MAR. But 4-Methylthio-4MAR or 4-Methylthio-AR would be insanely potent with greater risks of serotonin syndrome?!!!

The problem with aminorexes is afaik valvuopathy because of 5HT2b agonism. Serotonin syndrome is a very rare condition and the deaths from 4,4'-DMAR usually involved combinations done because of the slow onset, or maybe very high doses. It is a MAOI which makes it different than the others but I found it because exactly this property to be surprisingly benign - in regard of serotonin depletion. The relative absence of it tells me that the compound isn't toxic but just very potent.
Abolishing the serotonin release will lead to less euphoric components.
Need to research a bit about the TAAR agonism you mentioned, I know that amphetamines are agonists there and thought it would actually lead to release?

I don't think 5HT2b activitity (and thus risks of valvulopathy) have been measured. AR is a weak 5HT2a and 2c agonist. Too weak relative to its monoamines transport activity to be relevant. My guess 2b activity of ARs if any will be similar to 2a/2c activity. I think it was by analogy to Fenfluramine (a SERT releaser and 5HT2b agonist) that it was assumed it may also be a 5H2b agonist. Keep in mind, both drugs were promoted for weight loss at the time!

Only issues I think is pulmonary hypertension but even that is due to chronic use, as in chronic daily use (for weight loss) for months at time!!! iirc 10 mg dosing of AR for 6 months (for weight loss) was well tolerated with no major issues besides insomnia, stimulation, arousal and..euphoria! serotonin syndrome complications(rare) is linked to huge doses (75mg+) or combination with MAOIs, but I never heard about MAO activity of ARs!!? "the poison is in the dose, not the drug".

I was told OP compound is selective DNRI and therefore possibly safer. But nothing about selectivity for release which imo is more relevant with ARs than uptake inhibition. As I mention on avg they're 10x more selective as DNRI v 5HT and 10x more selective for 5HT release v DA/NE!! So if the idea is to have homologs with reduced serotonergic, then monoamines release potency/selectivity is more relevant than uptake inhibition. That's why I ask the question, in case somebody here came across it.

imho, that compound will be exactly or almost exactly like 3-MMC (overall balanced uptake inhibitor and releaser) may be more potent. Or maybe in between MDMA and Meth or coke! I don't see how the sulfur will dramatically change the ARs properties (may make it more active because of increased lipophilicity going from O to S).. But then again, you never know what to expect in this business (small changes can have dramatic effects!) .. So I wouldnt know that until I try.

Oh yeah, TAAR activation inhibits monoamines release (all 3 DA/NE/5HT) via an auto-inhibitory loop (at least in rodents)..not clear how relevant it is in humans but here is a detailed review article of AR and analogs.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6287711/pdf/emss-80094.pdf

 

[G_Chem]

One thing I find interesting, in that paper they speak of finding pulmonary hypertension in rats/mice yet then say these findings could not be replicated in “animal model studies.”

From the tons of reading I’ve been doing on Aminorex lately I’m beginning to believe the problems from back then might have been overstated.

Let’s look at the facts, this drug was introduced in the 1960’s at the height of the “first American amphetamine epidemic” when amphetamines were getting eaten like candy and the use was for anorectic purposes.

My take is that the people who experienced problems were likely overweight women who back then thought getting skinny meant taking a pill not exercise. They took doses 75+mg a day for months on end.

Then I wonder what kind of lobby the amphetamine industry had at the time, this drug had the potential to be a cheap easy to produce alternative if it were to get popular.

Here soon I’ll finally be trying this drug and I intend to report back on its effects.

-GC

 

[Rectify]

Although I posted this selfsame molecule not long ago in my fluff name a molecule thread, I really can't tell you anything at all about this compound's effects unless I or someone actually tries it.

 

[fm3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiphenazole

I knew I had seen something like this before. It is a respiratory stimulant, but I haven't found much information on CNS effects.

It's on the Olympic/WADA banned substance list and has been used as an "antidote for barbiturate poisoning".

 

[draculic acid69]

Someone on the hive once mentioned using thiocyanate instead of plain cyanate in a 4mar rxn once.maybe that could put the sulphur molecule where u want it.

 

[paracelsius]

Although I posted this selfsame molecule not long ago in my fluff name a molecule thread, I really can't tell you anything at all about this compound's effects unless I or someone actually tries it.

I guess you should sue chinese (or are they dutch?) vendors for royalties cause apparently that compound is being offered as 3-MMC-like replacement in anticipation of coming Dutch blanket ban...hard to tell tho, might be just plain 4-MAR!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiphenazole

I knew I had seen something like this before. It is a respiratory stimulant, but I haven't found much information on CNS effects.
It's on the Olympic/WADA banned substance list and has been used as an "antidote for barbiturate poisoning".

Nice find.. Does it have stimulant effect tho?

Someone on the hive once mentioned using thiocyanate instead of plain cyanate in a 4mar rxn once.maybe that could put the sulphur molecule where u want it.

It might work under strongly acidic conditions but I can't find any literature on this rxn! have no access to reaxys

 

[paracelsius]

My take is that the people who experienced problems were likely overweight women who back then thought getting skinny meant taking a pill not exercise...
-GC

Believe it or not, not much has changed. A lots of them still believe that and throwing billion$ for useless crap like rasberry ketone 4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)butan-2-one supplement pill !!

 

[atara]

Thinking about the metabolic fate of that ring made me very worried. However, it appears that 2-aminothiazolines occur in the human body:

2-Aminothiazoline-4-carboxylic acid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So this may not be so dangerous at least in that way.

Anyway, aminorex is reported to be a monoamine oxidase inhibitor! Unfortunately replacing O by S usually doesn't affect this activity; cf. PMA and 4-MTA. So I'm skeptical of the safety anyway.

On the other hand N-ethylaminorex might be worth looking into. Ethyl isocyanate is a pretty nasty reagent, though!

 

[paracelsius]

I wouldnt worry to much about that: the sulfur in the ring is quite different from the the aliphatic methylthio like in 4-MTA in terms of metabolism (quite stable actually). Only thing is it might have long duration, I mean something like 5-8h+ ..can you link to aminorex MAO activity? N-ethyl sounds like a winner. would probably be a more potent version of cyclazodone, yes?..

 

[G_Chem]

I’m also curious about the MAOI activity of Aminorex. Having just tried this compound twice in the past week at <1mg and 5mg respectively, I notice an odd antidepressant like effect the day after which seems reminiscent of other MAOI drugs I’ve tried.

Could be unrelated though, maybe I’m just in a good mood

-GC

 

[paracelsius]

^

I’m also curious about the MAOI activity of Aminorex. Having just tried this compound twice in the past week at <1mg and 5mg respectively, I notice an odd antidepressant like effect the day after which seems reminiscent of other MAOI drugs I’ve tried.

Could be unrelated though, maybe I’m just in a good mood

-GC

I finally got my hand on paper of Aminorex and MAOI. Yes, you're absolutely right .. it turns out Aminorex is a MAOI so I guess the antidepressant after-glow you describe may be due to MAOI.. could also be due to the unique balanced SNDRI AND SNDRA profile of the drug tho!

MAO‐inhibitory properties of anorectic drugs

Aminorex-a compound with a cyclized phenethylamine structure, and which gives rise to severe pulmonary hypertension in man (Gurtner, Gertsch & others, 1968 ; Loogen, 1972)-inhibited MAO to the same extent as iproniazid. This is of special interest with respect to its ability to liberate 5-HT in vivo. After a single injection of aminorex (10 mg kg-l, rat) the 5-HT concentration of the lungs was three times as high as that of control animals. Furthermore, during chronic treatment with this compound the 5-HT content of the rat lung remained elevated, even 24 h after the last injection (Mielke & others, 1972; 1973). This persistent high 5-HT concentration is probably caused by a synergism between liberation and inhibition of metabolic breakdown of 5-HT by aminorex.

Notice, that's a pretty HUGE dose they talking about (10mg/kg rat ~ 2mg/kg in humans ie about 150 mg dose for a 70kg human.. IV? !!) 10x the stimulant oral dose!
For 4-MAR and 4,4'-DMAR, I couldn't find anything.. I'll try to find out..
cc @dopamimetic

 

[obviously_not_carl]

Someone on the hive once mentioned using thiocyanate instead of plain cyanate in a 4mar rxn once.maybe that could put the sulphur molecule where u want it.

You're here too?
Small world phenomenon very much :D (from SM, guess who )

No, it can not be made via thiocyanate in the same manner, this would still result in an oxazoline ring.

However in 2006 some research group found a pretty neat way to access these kind of compounds, in the following paper: DOI: 10.1016/J.TETASY.2006.12.012
However, now its fifteen years later and this went largely unnoticed.

Bioassays? Not as far as I know.
No receptor binding studies, nothing.
Not about those thiazolamines.
Neither regarding the selenazolines.
Not yet, at least.

But given the informations regarding other somewhat related compounds which are discussed in Trachsel's "PEA's - von der Struktur zur Funktion", we can assume that the toxicity decreases from oxazoline -> thiazolamine -> selenazoline.
The activity probably too, but not its dropping less sharply than the toxicity.
And judging from 2C-Se, or the 2C-T's, none of the selenium/sulfur will (or if, tiniest and negligible amounts if at all) would be metabolised but just excreted as organic metabolites.
Also, Trachsel states similar things about drugs containing such heterocycles.

Thats very good.
4-MAR analogues do actually possess the cardiotoxicity, that people falsely tend to attribute to aminorex(which is less cardiotoxic than 4-MAR, and at the same time ten times more abuseable and fun).
So if the thiazolamine analogue of 4-MAR is less (cardio)toxic, then that might be an interesting target.
The plain sulfur analogue of aminorex, 5-phenyl-2-thiazolamine, is possibly the most interesting of the bunch.

Very accessible.
I know chemistry discussion is totally against the rules, and I hope I did not violate that by posting that papers DOI?
And, sorry but I do dare to add that bit, and those who understand will get it: appel.... but nobody needs carbon tet ;-)
I hope the mods allow that bit, its cryptic enough I think?

How funny to stumble over draculic acid here :D



Anyways, this might be helpful to someone.

If I somehow get my hands on a bioassay from any of the three thiazolamine analogues (relating to aminorex, 4-MAR, 3,4-DMAR), I shall share that here.
Just had to post because I saw draculic acid here, to spill what I already gathered about exactly that topic.

I do not really get the topic though.
Why sexual aphrodisiac, etc, was that now a theoretical or practical post?

Looks a bit cryptic to me as well.
It implies it was personally assayed.
But then again, its pretty scarce with hard facts.
Like the used dose, duration, and such?


Oh by the way, I will just drop this here, anyone using the search engine will probably find it anyways.
G chem mentioned 3-methylaminorex.
First, that compound turned up in warsaw a few years ago, 4g's(but no physical data, how useful is it to know the quantity then...?), as HCl salt.

Somehow I came into the possession of a tiny amount of that compound too, of the HCl salt.
And due to a very freakish accident, some of the HCl salt fell onto a piece of aluminium foil that was a bit hot, thanks to bad timing, etc.... when I saw that, I gasped in shock and I forgot why I had that bit of tubing in my mouth at that moment, but that unlikely course of things kept happening and, being totally shocked, the due to the heat immediately vaporizing substance got by chance and accident into myself...
Luckily I did not got poisoned at all.
It even turned out to be some kind of stimulanting and quite potent drug, euphoric, I estimate it to be a be slightly less potent than aminorex, and at least half as potent, somewhere in between, that needs to be established with future experiments.

Being very clumsy, I accidentally had the same accident happen to me again... more than once even... turned out its duration is comparable to aminorex too.
But it is more stable, can form a hydrochloride and such.

The 5-phenyl-2-thiazolamine is, by the way, also more stable than aminorex and I think it can form a hydrochloride as well(aminorex, well, some decomposition to its precursor will take place in presence of HCl, see Poos et al for the reference. the extent of that is exaggerated though.).

Ok.
I guess this borders the rules hard but I hope it still slips.
Its supposed to be helpful and not breaking the rules, no cookery, no laymans terms.

 

[paracelsius]

No, it can not be made via thiocyanate in the same manner, this would still result in an oxazoline ring.
However in 2006 some research group found a pretty neat way to access these kind of compounds, in the following paper: DOI: 10.1016/J.TETASY.2006.12.012
However, now its fifteen years later and this went largely unnoticed.

You mean straight from (pseudo)norephedrine? Yeah sure thiocyanate will still give the oxazoline like cyanate. Needs to convert the norephedrines to the chloro derivatives (beta-chloro-PEAs). Actually there is a old German paper describing that (the reaction of beta-chloro-PEAs with potassium thiocyanate to give the OP compounds). My German is not good but get the idea. Those guys in the paper above just repeat it with chiral version.

But there is an easier straightforward one-step route without need for toxic precursors. I suspect the precursor beta-chloro-PEA particularly toxic!! Then again I guess chemistry discussion is not allowed here (@MOD remove post if that is the case). But for sake of harm reduction be aware those beta-chloro-PEAs may be very nasty!!!

Bioassays? Not as far as I know.
No receptor binding studies, nothing.
Not about those thiazolamines.
Neither regarding the selenazolines.
Not yet, at least.

Am afraid you might not find any data (psychoactivity) on this class afaik! I couldnt find anything on those so far. Reason I suggest the thio analogs is that they may be less toxic especially less cardiotoxic (less 5HT2b activity) and liver toxicity than the oxazolines. And yet retain the activity of the oxa (or even little bit more potent). Plus they’ll be legal at least in the country I live. Only problem they stink, like any self-respecting sulfur compound!! Not too bad actually but still distinct sulfur smell.

Anyway I would probably be the first human to try that one (the 5-phenyl-2-thiazolamine, the thio analog of aminorex NOT 4-MAR!). just making sure I got the right compound.

...none of the selenium/sulfur will (or if, tiniest and negligible amounts if at all) would be metabolised but just excreted as organic metabolites...

Possible. However sp3 Sulfur/Selenium containing drugs have tendency to get easily metabolized to the oxides and excreted. But who knows?

..The plain sulfur analogue of aminorex, 5-phenyl-2-thiazolamine, is possibly the most interesting of the bunch...

Exactly what I am thinking. AND possibly the more recreational I would say. If anything the 4-methyl (as in 4-MAR or 4,4’-DMAR) would make it not only more cardio/liver toxic but also more serotonergic. Useless unless one is looking for an empathogenic ala mdma. Aminorex is already serotonergic enough compared to say d-meth (EC50 dopamine-norepinephrine-serotonine release (nM): AR=26, 56, 198; d-Meth=12, 48, 738. So it is somewhere between meth and mdma.

...I know chemistry discussion is totally against the rules, and I hope I did not violate that by posting that papers DOI?...

I don't know. But how can you discuss neurosciences/pharmacology without discussing chemistry?? It is like discussing a restaurant without discussion the food. Anyway, I guess as long as you don't post recipes in here should be ok? @MOD: correct me if I am wrong.

..If I somehow get my hands on a bioassay from any of the three thiazolamine analogues (relating to aminorex, 4-MAR, 3,4-DMAR), I shall share that here...

Can’t wait to see that. Please post if you happen on any bioassay data on those. Not necessarily on psychoactivity but any bioactivity data. I don’t have access to paywall papers which is pretty much everything these days.

It implies it was personally assayed.
But then again, its pretty scarce with hard facts.
Like the used dose, duration, and such?

It would be as soon as I got analytical data will post it here or reddit.

.. I forgot why I had that bit of tubing in my mouth at that moment, but that unlikely course of things kept happening and, being totally shocked, the due to the heat immediately vaporizing substance got by chance and accident into myself...
Luckily I did not got poisoned at all.
It even turned out to be some kind of stimulanting and quite potent drug, euphoric, I estimate it to be a be slightly less potent than aminorex, and at least half as potent, somewhere in between, that needs to be established with future experiments. Being very clumsy, I accidentally had the same accident happen to me again... more than once even....

Hmmm did your cat put the “bit of tubing” in your mouth and you forgot it was there and you inhale??

The 5-phenyl-2-thiazolamine is, by the way, also more stable than aminorex and I think it can form a hydrochloride as well

Yes it is. thiazolines are more stable than the corresponding oxazolines in acids. So yea shouldnt be a problem to make HCl salt without decomposition.

Then again why bother making the salt? Thiaminorex OP compound free base is low melting solid (110-112oC) easy to handle. The HCl mp is pretty close to Meth.HCl (172-173 v 176-178 o C for meth). So I guess it may vaporize like meth.HCl. Just watch for your cat accidentally putting “bit of tubing” in your mouth while it was accidentally vaporizing

 

[obviously_not_carl]

If you do not have access to paywall papers, use sci-hub, any of the many URL's going around, and just copy the paper's DOI in there.
There you have it, access to every "paywalled" paper(haven't heard that term in years, it became obsolete since sci-hub ).


The stuff I made the HCl salt from was N-methylaminorex and not the thiazolamine analogue

But maybe watch this thread

Also, vaporizing freebases tastes bad.
I mean, in case of mildly basic solid at STP freebases.... methamphetamine for example, should be fucking your throat up(never tried).
I just formed the HCl for purification purposes.

Also I do not think that N-MAR is a solid as freebase at STP
Could not find any data for this.
Despite that seizure in warsaw.

 

[obviously_not_carl]

Oh you are talking about that simple version via the N-ureidio-amine?

Yeah that works fine for the 4-unsubstituted version, but also for the N,4-disubstituted version.
Not the 4-monosubbed aminoalcohols!!!
There is a certain board which can be easily found, which concentrates on the topic of harm reduction (=i.e. drug synthesis), we have a thread about that topic on there why this is NOT a suitable alternative.
Complete with ref's.

Also, this thread contains why 4-MAR as is simply sucks ass.
Annoying stimulant.
Confirmed by those who tried
Desoxypipradrol is miles better in my opinion.

 

[paracelsius]

Desoxypipradrol is miles better in my opinion.

Yeah could be, for a pure NDRI not a releaser like the oxa(thia)zolines. More cocaine-like than amph-like.

But yeah very underrated. Too bad all the media brouhaha when Deoxy RC aka “Ivory Wave” were introduced and sold in headshops and some stupid kids in Scotland ingest like 10x the normal dose (which is<10mg) and they ended up in psych ward with full-blown psychosis lasting 5-7 days straight. Thats when it got banned in the UK and got bad name since.

I wont blame those kids tho. The problem with this compound is that time to peak onset (Tmax) can last anywhere from half-hour to 5 hours. So thinking reason it is not kicking is because the dose may be low so people redose only to realize hours later that was a huge mistake hours later. Afaik this is the single most potent Dopamine-Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (active dose starting at 0.5 mg!!!). Plus shit (single dose) last forever (up to 5 days!!!!!). Half-life is like 72h.

There were discussion on Aza analogs (piperidine replaced by piperazine) sometime back here: https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/4-azapradol-2-diphenylmethyl-piperazine.889105/
Morphodrol (piperidine replaced by morpholine) was not that impressive iirc. But I bet the piperazine will be way better than even Desoxy with shorter duration and faster onset.

Anyway, I think desoxypipradol is relatively safer than most RC stims. For one, because the active dose is so low, less chance for off-target side-effects. Plus it is less cardiotoxic because it is less adrenergic more dopaminergic. Less peripheral stimulation just pure dopamine rush. Only problem the risk of full-blown psychosis as I mentioned the active dose is so low, unless one has a really really accurate microbalance (or better yet do volumetric dosing), eyeballing that shit will take you straight to psych ward!

EDIT: I'll probably try see if i can make this compound (the 4-aza) easily. The original Dutch patent use pressure hydrogenation with expensive and toxic transition metals catalysts. Oh did I mention? It was patented by Dutch as a stim some years ago. I guess Chinese RCs people missed that one!

 

[obviously_not_carl]

Oh sorry I did not express myself right, I think you understood it the opposite way now :D

What I meant was, that 4-MAR is such a boring and long-lasting compound, that even the also boring and long-lasting desoxy is miles better that 4-MAR.

I did not want to say that either of them is a good and fun substance(well they might, depends on the purpose, but that purpose is not fun but rather work or studying, thats for sure).

To make that clear, I think the 4-MAR analogues are very dangerous, no matter which one.
Unlike the normal 2C analogues.

I would like to try the thiazolamine of 4-MAR still, though, as I can compare that to the oxazoline, but would not use that for extensive bioassays.

My preferable target is 5-phenyl-2-thiazolamine, "thio(a)minorex".
This should be 1. more abuse- and enjoyable, but 2. also safer to use, while 3., also much cheaper to synthesize.