Social Justice Here we go again: Killing of Rayshard Brooks by Atlanta police

[TheLoveBandit]

All the arguments over what the charge should are amusing. Reminds me of a scene that's stuck with me forever



(apologies for shitty version, any other clip is too long and doesn't cut right to these lines)

 

[mp44god]

so you should follow the cops' instructions and pose no no threat and you'll be fine?



yeah... not so much.

alasdair

Im glad your brought that video up.. why do you think there were no protests over it? Strange. There are absolutely psychotic cops out there, but generally, 99% of the time, they don't end up killing you for no reason. There have been many doctors/nurses over the years that murdered their patients. Should we abolish hospitals or generalize all of them because of that?

 

[alasdairm]

why do you think there were no protests over it?

no protests? you mean like this protest?



but i understand the point you're making. this problem does affect everybody - since around 2015, police have shot and killed about twice as many white people as black people. but, of course, the killings of black people are starkly disproportionate which is at the heart of the protests precipitated by the george floyd death.

well, people say, the rates of black and white crime account for at least some of that disproportion? not necessarily: Minneapolis police shootings since 2000: A deeper look at who and where: Do areas with more crime see more fatal police encounters? Not necessarily.

well then, people say, blacks commit disproportionately more murders - surely that explains it? not really. very few deaths at the hands of the police result from police trying to prevent - or even responding to - murder (e.g. george floyd). and put that argument in the context of other uses of force by police. black people are significantly more likely to be pulled over and searched for drugs (even though countless studies on the subject demonstrate that drug searches of whites are, in fact, more likely to turn up illegal drugs). black people are also more likely to be arrested for distribution and possession of drugs even though drug use and sale among blacks and whites tends to be very similar (see: Rates of Drug Use and Sales, by Race; Rates of Drug Related Criminal Justice Measures, by Race)

when i see police violence against a white person (i am white) i rarely tend to think in terms of "that could be me". when black people see the police kneeling on george floyd's neck until he died, "that could be me" is much more common a reaction.

so, yes, i think it's true that police pose a risk to everybody, of every race. but the risk is disproportionate to people of color. and, i believe, that's why we see fewer protests over the killing of an unarmed white man.

There have been many doctors/nurses over the years that murdered their patients.

sure, but those tend to be isolated incidents rather than a pattern of over-use of lethal force as a first, rather than last resort.

Should we abolish hospitals or generalize all of them because of that?

i'm pretty sure i never said anything about abolishing the police.

alasdair

 

[mp44god]

no protests? you mean like this protest?



when i see police violence against a white person (i am white) i rarely tend to think in terms of "that could be me". when black people see the police kneeling on george floyd's neck until he died, "that could be me" is much more common a reaction.

so, yes, i think it's true that police pose a risk to everybody, of every race. but the risk is disproportionate to people of color. and, i believe, that's why we see fewer protests over the killing of an unarmed white man.


sure, but those tend to be isolated incidents rather than a pattern of over-use of lethal force as a first, rather than last resort.


i'm pretty sure i never said anything about abolishing the police.

alasdair

Wow, that looked like a HUGE protest for Daniel... definitely on the scale of these BLM riots where innocent people's livelihood has been ruined by scumbags burning their businesses to the ground. Thanks for speaking for "people of color" white savior. I'm sure they appreciate that. As someone who is white and has done jail time and been stamped with a felony conviction, my outlook on police is much different that yours. Then again, I didn't grow up a town in CA with 5 black people and gated suburban communities everywhere.
I know this is off topic, but so was the video you posted of Daniel Shaver, so I feel it's fair game. Why do leftists like yourself use the term "People Of Color"? Calling someone "colored" is a racist term from the jim crow era. Why is that term acceptable to use? Furthermore, black could be looked as the absence of color. Can you point out any race of people on earth that doesn't have a hue to them? Lmao.

 

[alasdairm]

Wow, that looked like a HUGE protest for Daniel... definitely on the scale of these BLM riots

you said no protests. i linked you to a protest demonstrating that your claim was incorrect.

if that's not what you meant, then i suggest writing what you mean in future.

Thanks for speaking for "people of color"

i can't and do not speak for anybody but myself.

white savior

what's with the shitty attitude, dude?

Then again, I didn't grow up a town in CA with 5 black people and gated suburban communities everywhere.

neither did i so i don't really know what you're getting at with this comment? care to expand?

alasdair

 

[mp44god]

you said no protests. i linked you to a protest demonstrating that your claim was incorrect.

if that's not what you meant, then i suggest writing what you mean in future.
i can't and do not speak for anybody but myself.
what's with the shitty attitude, dude?
neither did i so i don't really know what you're getting at with this comment? care to expand?

alasdair

That's cute that you didn't answer a single question I asked. Kind of hard to without looking dumb, I guess. Let me know when you find the race of people with the transparent skin tone!

 

[Soso78]

you said no protests. i linked you to a protest demonstrating that your claim was incorrect.

if that's not what you meant, then i suggest writing what you mean in future.
i can't and do not speak for anybody but myself.
what's with the shitty attitude, dude?
neither did i so i don't really know what you're getting at with this comment? care to expand?

alasdair

About 6 people at that demonstration.
Poor example

 

[alasdairm]

^ if the claim was there was no large-scale protest then maybe. @mp44god claimed there were no protests. a claim that is simply, and demonstrably wrong.

That's cute that you didn't answer a single question I asked

fancy that. i asked you a couple of questions yesterday:

do you?

then you'll agree with me that officer garrett rolfe shot an innocent man?

which you didn't answer. pretty cute yourself

alasdair

 

[mp44god]

^ if the claim was there was no large-scale protest then maybe. @mp44god claimed there were no protests. a claim that is simply, and demonstrably wrong.


fancy that. i asked you a couple of questions yesterday:


which you didn't answer. pretty cute yourself

alasdair

I've already made it pretty clear I don't think he was innocent multiple times in this thread, and he sealed his fate trying to tase the cops. As far as your false claims about blacks and whites using drugs at the same rate - https://www.amren.com/archives/videos/race-and-drug-arrests-another-big-lie/ debunks multiple points you made. Like you said, black people disproportionately commit more crime (though it needs to be emphasized, not all) so obviously neighborhoods full of black people have more encounters with police. Are you going to answer my question about you referring to people as "colored" now?

 

[alasdairm]

I don't think he was innocent

how was he proven guilty?

alasdair

 

[mp44god]

how was he proven guilty?

alasdair

You have to try harder than this. Still avoiding my questions? I meant not innocent in the sense that he assaulted the cops and attempted to use their own weapons against them... not in a legal sense. Fortunately, he got swiss-cheesed before he made it to the court house!

 

[alasdairm]

^ so you don't truly believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

thanks for clearing that up.

Are you going to answer my question about you referring to people as "colored" now?

oh sure.

so, first, i never used the term "colored". if you are going to quote me, please do it accurately.

i used the term "people of color" as i was referring to a wider group of non-whites than just black people.

in his "i have a dream" speech, martin luther king jr. referered to "citizens of color". i'm quite comfortable taking my lead from mlk.

alasdair

 

[empeebee]

Contentious question follows:

Taking drugs isn’t comparable to physically attacking someone do cut that shit out.

But is selling drugs comparable to attacking someone by proxy?

 

[mp44god]

^ so you don't truly believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

thanks for clearing that up.


oh sure.

so, first, i never used the term "colored". if you are going to quote me, please do it accurately.

i used the term "people of color" as i was referring to a wider group of non-whites than just black people.

in his "i have a dream" speech, martin luther king jr. referered to "citizens of color". i'm quite comfortable taking my lead from mlk.

alasdair

He said that quote during the Jim Crow era, when that was a racist term for black people, genius. There's a huge difference between "Colored Person" and "Person Of Color" though I think you might've got me there. 10/10 Logic

 

[mp44god]

^ so you don't truly believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

thanks for clearing that up.


alasdair

Not sure where you got that, as I've also stated in this thread that I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty. You assault multiple cops and try to use their taser/guns against them, you will most likely get killed - which is a completely different scenario. Had he complied with his DUI arrest, then absolutely he's "innocent until proven guilty". This is just common sense my man, don't try to overthink this.

 

[alasdairm]

I don't think he was innocent

I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty

lol. ok.

alasdair

 

[mp44god]

lol. ok.

alasdair

The context in which I said those things matters. That's a pretty pathetic way to try and debate someone.

 

[alasdairm]

so, more accurately, your position seems to be "i believe someone is innocent until proven guilty unless i think they're not innocent".

thanks.

alasdair

 

[mp44god]

so, more accurately, your position seems to be "i believe someone is innocent until proven guilty unless i think they're not innocent".

thanks.

alasdair

Nice strawman.

 

[alasdairm]

they're not my words.

your position seems, at best, a bit muddled...

interesting coincidence (actually i doubt it's a coincidence but...) i was just browsing linkedin on my phone and, in my feed, was an ad for https://www.mytherapycards.com/.

the creator - dr. ebony who is a black woman - use the term "women of color" throughout her site. she seems to have little problem with the adjective "of color".

i think you're trying to manufacture a 'gotcha!' moment here when there is none.

alasdair