Police Brutality Thread

[JGrimez]

is this the same fbi that is part of the anti-trump deep state and can't possibly be trusted? that fbi?

Sounds like you fell for it?



I really should've put this into the Juicy Smollett thread

just pointing out that some pro-trump leaners absolutely distrust the fbi. until something comes along that aligns with their bias...

As you can see from my post above I didn't need the FBI for me to know that this was BS.

 

[JGrimez]

 

[mal3volent]

So the BLM riots are pushing back against police brutality and systemic racism. Where, might they feel this way?

how very partisan of you, to score a point on the Dems when people are dying.

maybe the people in towns who elect Republican mayors simply do not give a fuck about police brutality ? Maybe large cities in general are more diverse places and thus more likely to elect Dems?

Makes sense right?

 

[mal3volent]

As you can see from my post above I didn't need the FBI for me to know that this was BS.

yet you cite them as a credible source to make a political point.
as Ali said, they're either corrupt or they aren't . You either trust them or you don't.

unless your only objective is to prop up your agenda, in whatever way you can, no matter how hypocritical it may make you seem.

 

[JGrimez]

yet you cite them as a credible source to make a political point.
as Ali said, they're either corrupt or they aren't . You either trust them or you don't.

unless your only objective is to prop up your agenda, in whatever way you can, no matter how hypocritical it may make you seem.

Yeah this is just a really bad/black+white/low-IQ/gotcha-style take.
I called BS on this while it was still being investigated.
If I was arguing for a corrupt FBI then it would be going in favor of the Leftist agenda.
Discussing the investigation of a hate crime is quite different to discussing provable corruption at the top of the FBI, identifying individuals and replete with supporting documentation (different for the nuanced observer, that is).

Also some projection as the Left were sucking FBI dick for the last few years in the quasi-religious belief that the bureau and Mr Mueller were going to take down Orange Badman.
I was right about the Mueller investigation being a fizzler. I was right about Juicy Smollett, I was right about this y'all should listen to me more

Also funny how calling out an obvious hoax is somehow me "propping up my agenda" ?

 

[Deru]

So the BLM riots are pushing back against police brutality and systemic racism. Where, might they feel this way?

I think that fits in perfectly to what role systemic racism has played into urban cities, which the majority will vote Democratic out of necessity, so I'm not sure if that's so much of a reflection of the Democratic party being the problem versus a simple reflection of many other components, and one of that contributing components would indeed be systemic racism. It's kind of the same what came first, the chicken or the egg debate again when framing it like that.

 

[JGrimez]

I think that fits in perfectly to what role systemic racism has played into urban cities, which the majority will vote Democratic out of necessity, so I'm not sure if that's so much of a reflection of the Democratic party being the problem versus a simple reflection of many other components, and one of that contributing components would indeed be systemic racism. It's kind of the same what came first, the chicken or the egg debate again when framing it like that.

This is where the calls of "systemic racism" become extremely vague.
Why were Democrat officials unable to significantly improve problems in their cities when they had control, sometimes for decades?
Where/how exactly do systemically racist federal policies prevent this?

Could it be politically advantageous for Dems to keep black communities on welfare and feeling victimized?
Noo that could never happen. Shame on me for even suggesting it.

 

[Deru]

This is where the calls of "systemic racism" become extremely vague.
Why were Democrat officials unable to significantly improve problems in their cities when they had control, sometimes for decades?
Where/how exactly do systemically racist federal policies prevent this?

Could it be politically advantageous for Dems to keep black communities on welfare and feeling victimized?
Noo that could never happen. Shame on me for even suggesting it.

Well, I'm not suggesting it's the be-all, end-all reason for every single problem in the world. It's just one of many components, but it is one very deep rooted in our country, so it's a very difficult one to truly fix (and even then, how do you adequately address it?)

How much power does a mayor have in addressing these issues to begin with? I would say the scope would need to be opened up to look at each individual state's legislature to be able to adequately answer the questions you pose.

However, politically advantageous? Possibly. Path of least resistance? Without a doubt.

 

[Xorkoth]

ffs 8(

 

[Deru]

^Yeah, that's pretty bad.

 

[mal3volent]

ffs 8(

it is parody account created by a right winger , but I'm sure JG knew that already.
twitter is overrun with them

 

[Deru]

it is parody account created by a right winger , but I'm sure JG knew that already.
twitter is overrun with them

Sigh...why does he and similar people like to play dirty to reinforce their argument points and then wonder why people don't listen to them more. Stunts like that reduce one's credibility long term. Manipulation is a piss poor substitute for trust.

 

[empeebee]

"Systemic racism" as some call it has been around for centuries, this is not a modern-day Republican vs Democrat thing. This thread, to surprisingly return to the topic, was one cop vs one suspect. The Rayshard tread is one cop vs one suspect. Let's get over ourselves folks and work for and vote for change.

Minneapolis should put up a plaque/monument to G. Floyd and others killed by police officers, so should every city to remind the police of their shame and remind the public that the city notices and cares every time a new name is added to the monument. Minneapolis, and many other cities, should make a public announcement of apology and move on by committing more resource to the education and betterment of all less privileged folk, black/brown/yellow & white.

The more less-privileged folk can be enabled to aspire to, and work for a better life, the fewer these types of incidents will become.

 

[Deru]

"Systemic racism" as some call it has been around for centuries, this is not a modern-day Republican vs Democrat thing. This thread, to surprisingly return to the topic, was one cop vs one suspect. The Rayshard tread is one cop vs one suspect. Let's get over ourselves folks and work for and vote for change.

This articulated so well what I have been failing to do. Thank you @empeebee

 

[TheLoveBandit]

#BubbaHoax
#BubbaSmollett

I'm not going to edit my words, I'll own them. But I don't agree with this bit I added at the end. Smollett created his lie, hired others to help him execute it, and played the victim to the hilt. Wallace (and/or his crew), OTOH, misconstrued a benign happenstance. Given the hypersensitivity on the subject, I could forgive a mistaken assumption on his/their part.

However, I've seen where he's continued to play the victim, insisting it was a noose, well after the FBI established it was no such thing. At which point I have to question his reasoning and motivations. It's still not something HE created, but he is trying to sustain the impression of victim-hood where there isn't any.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

how very partisan of you, to score a point on the Dems when people are dying.

maybe the people in towns who elect Republican mayors simply do not give a fuck about police brutality ? Maybe large cities in general are more diverse places and thus more likely to elect Dems?

Makes sense right?

A couple of points on this. First, I'm passing it along, I didn't create it. Nor for that matter did I elect those officials, or partake in the rioting. Care to establish factual evidence that those cities in riot are NOT run by elected Democrat officials? Or is the meme grounded in reality this time? Second, before you point at me (or whomever made the meme) for jumping on a subject when 'people are dying', can you stop and back up and ask WHY people are dying? I can't tell which way to take your comment. Is it pointing to the fact that in Democrat led cities the COPS are killing people, or that the CITIZENS are killing people (either in riots, or in crimes which then bring cops)? If you mean that COPS killing citizens should be the headline over Dem leaders, let's ask who set the requirements for being a law enforcement officer, who hired these guys, and has allowed them to operate this way for so long. Could it possibly be the Democrat mayors, their appointed police chiefs (can we still say 'chief'?)? If the point, and I doubt it, is that the CITIZENS are killing people which draws the cops in....I again have to ask why. Is it because of the 'systemic racism' and or structural unfairness of society in those cities? If so, how did that come to be? From Dem led policies and leadership and their policies? Sounds like the most reasonable assumption to me, unless you want to blame the citizens for their condition, and BLM doesn't seem to want any part of that.

"maybe the people in towns who elect Republican mayors simply do not give a fuck about police brutality" Really? Maybe the social integrity in Republican led populations simply aren't being subject to either the 'systemic racism' or 'police brutatliy'. Let's do a quick check - Floyd killed in....Dem state and local. The GA guy killed in... Dem state and local. How many of these police brutality situations are occurring in Rep led cities? How many riots are occurring in the Rep led cities?

Maybe Dem leadership doesn't foster 'systemic racism' or 'police brutality', but why does it keep occurring there? Coincidence? Why isn't either of those prevalent in Rep led cities? Luck? A basic tenet of conservatism is personal responsibility. A basic tenet of progressivism is victimhood, and the state needs the power and authority to 'help' you. Which one sounds like it builds a society with people feeling they've been made inferior, and breeds a gov't controlled law enforcement to 'help' that can easily get power drunk?

Maybe we don't make this a Rep-Dem thing, or even a Conservative-Progressive thing. Let's start with the basic facts of WHERE this occurring, and WHY, and are there common denominators that might be driving it in those areas and not elsewhere. Which brings me to

I think that fits in perfectly to what role systemic racism has played into urban cities, which the majority will vote Democratic out of necessity, so I'm not sure if that's so much of a reflection of the Democratic party being the problem versus a simple reflection of many other components, and one of that contributing components would indeed be systemic racism. It's kind of the same what came first, the chicken or the egg debate again when framing it like that.

Agreed, sort of. I can't say which on the chicken or egg, but I agree they two seem to be correlated (note, does not indicate causation). But it begs the basic question of WHY are the Dem leaders so often in control of large urban areas? Is it the promises made for generations of improving the situation? Because if that's why they are elected, why has it only gotten worse? Or is it the Dem policies that have made it worse? This boggles my mind a bit right now, so I'll drop it. But I'm also scratching my head a bit trying to think of large urban areas (Texas maybe?) that are Rep controlled and have these problems. Or rural areas that are Dem controlled and do not have these issues (proving it is the urban setting, not the leadership).

 

[JGrimez]

How much power does a mayor have in addressing these issues to begin with? I would say the scope would need to be opened up to look at each individual state's legislature to be able to adequately answer the questions you pose.

I'm talking about Democrats being in charge of states for decades.
As you're aware the state has an exorbitant level of power compared to comparative systems in other countries.
I don't see how you can explain this. You either have to admit that Democrats don't have the power to help minority communities or they have an agenda to actively not do so while lying to people that that's what they're all about.
If they don't have the power I'd like to know what federal systemically racist laws are preventing them for doing this - because imo, as we can see, digging a little deep into the issue proves that this leftist narrative is absolute bullshit.

However, politically advantageous? Possibly.

Look into this, find out what their game is and stop believing their lies.
Why would they have an incentive to keep black communities poor, uneducated and dependent on welfare?

Sigh...why does he and similar people like to play dirty to reinforce their argument points and then wonder why people don't listen to them more. Stunts like that reduce one's credibility long term. Manipulation is a piss poor substitute for trust.

It's not playing dirty, it's satire. Because of satire now being indistinguishable from the Left and them not having much of a sense of humour, they might see this as some form of sneaky political attack.
I could easily find serious leftists saying even more outlandish things.

Minneapolis should put up a plaque/monument to G. Floyd and others killed by police officers

It's actually amusing to suggest this while Floyd protesters are arguing to tear down statues of Washington, Jefferson and Jesus.
There's no need for a monument dedicated to an armed robber who threatened to kill pregnant women and didn't look after his own children.
Maybe Floyd did or didn't deserve to die - none of us truly know unless we knew him. However we can agree he didn't deserve to die that way.
But yea the way the Left idolizes criminals and immoral behaviour is disconcerting sometimes.

I've been discussing this a lot and thinking of ways to fix the problems
Most people just throw out vague accusations like "systemic racism" and then support stupid actions like defunding police (as opposed to increased funding them to improve their training). I just saw something about police in MN recently having their psyche therapy sessions downsized. Terrible move.

Some of us admit that fatherless households play a highly significant role in whether a young male will resort to violent criminal activity.
So how about this suggestion - can we stop welfare that incentivizes single families, for eg could we give massive tax breaks to families that stick together and raise children properly?
If children keep a clean record the family receives monetary help, if they break laws then they are penalized.
We also obviously pump more money into innercity education (what Dems should've done decades ago if they actually cared), and if children receive good grades then that could also be a marker in terms of financial benefits.

 

[CFC]

Saw this graph in NYT. Looks like it peaked 1970-80 period...

 

[Deru]

You either have to admit that Democrats don't have the power to help minority communities or they have an agenda to actively not do so while lying to people that that's what they're all about.

Couldn't it be both, they don't have the power and have an agenda?

As you're aware the state has an exorbitant level of power compared to comparative systems in other countries

Correct.

If they don't have the power I'd like to know what federal systemically racist laws are preventing them for doing this - because imo, as we can see, digging a little deep into the issue proves that this leftist narrative is absolute bullshit.

There are no laws preventing them, if anything, I would think there is no easy mechanism to allow them to do this. Because remember, even if the state has a Democratic governor, who has the majority in the state Legislature? Something like this would inevitably need bipartisan support. And again, I'm not even sure what "this" would even specifically be, in it's entirety. Besides a lot of good ideas mentioned here and around the world, what sounds good and what can realistically be implemented are two entirely different worlds. That's the whole point of this, the reason I'm happy, at this point, for just the discussions to finally be taking place. Just to add, look at the disaster playing out in Congress right now with the reform bill, I think this really illustrates my point is maybe everyone knew this would be a hotbed of emotionally charged issues, and no one wanted to bring it up and charge the nation prior to this.

Why would they have an incentive to keep black communities poor, uneducated and dependent on welfare?

I would still like to believe there isn't so much an incentive (keep people down to necessitate their votes) versus path of least resistance, if I view this with a very critical lens.

I could easily find serious leftists saying even more outlandish things.

Fair enough. It was more about how you dropped it in, it was like your own cruel humor to laugh at people here who "fell" for it, not a very good way to gain trust and respect. But, I digress, the point will be lost.

 

[empeebee]

It's actually amusing to suggest this while Floyd protesters are arguing to tear down statues of Washington, Jefferson and Jesus

Wasn't trying to be amusing. If protesters start tearing down monuments dedicated to victims of police brutality then they really aren't sure what they're protesting about are they?

Maybe Floyd did or didn't deserve to die

He deserved to get arrested and investigated. With sufficient evidence he deserved to get convicted. There is NO CONDITION under which he deserved to die.