Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

[Meth novice 79]

I just don’t understand how some can turn this all into a conspiracy suggesting COVID is not real, and lockdown was so totalitarian move.

Have some world leaders handled it poorly? Absolutely.
Will they also use it in some way to manipulate changes we otherwise would never agree to?
Of course! That’s what they do with every incident.

But the lockdown response and subsequent restrictions were rational logical responses to a particularly virile and previously unknown and understood virus.
They just didn’t KNOW how this would evolve, they still really don’t.
It spreads like wild fire, and is evolving as rapidly.

It’s not about the death rate,
It’s about the fact that there isn’t a health system in the world strong enough to handle the numbers of critically ill patients they were/are considering there could be.

The average first world country has something like 20 ICU beds per 100,000 people.
Countries like Italy and Spain who became overrun with COVID fast had 12 ICU beds per 100,000 people. So citizens were dying in hallways of hospitals while awaiting a place.
It’s simple math!

What else were they supposed to do but attempt containment to buy time for them to increase bed numbers?
Imagine all the conspiracy theorists had they just left it to ‘see what happens’?

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020...-icu-beds-ventilators-hospitals/12090420?nw=0

 

[Fire&Water]

... keep soaking it in

 

[novaveritas]

I just don’t understand how some can turn this all into a conspiracy suggesting COVID is not real, and lockdown was so totalitarian move.

But the lockdown response and subsequent restrictions were rational logical responses to a particularly virile and previously unknown and understood virus.
They just didn’t KNOW how this would evolve, they still really don’t.
It spreads like wild fire, and is evolving as rapidly.

It’s not about the death rate,
It’s about the fact that there isn’t a health system in the world strong enough to handle the numbers of critically ill patients they were/are considering there could be.

The average first world country has something like 20 ICU beds per 100,000 people.
Countries like Italy and Spain who became overrun with COVID fast had 12 ICU beds per 100,000 people. So citizens were dying in hallways of hospitals while awaiting a place.
It’s simple math!

What else were they supposed to do but attempt containment to buy time for them to increase bed numbers?
Imagine all the conspiracy theorists had they just left it to ‘see what happens’?

Lockdown of healthy individuals is ineffective and very destructive. Isolate sick people, isolating 1 sick person is a thousand times more effective than isolating a thousand healthy people.

Lockdown and mandatory isolation of large numbers of possibly infected (but likely not infected) people does not work the way the simplistic think it does. The lockdown strategy does not protect the most vulnerable, it disrupts healthcare and will continue to lead to unnecessary deaths.
Lockdown is not a new idea, and it has been resisted time and time agian, but unfortunately now most of the sensible real epidemiologists who actually had practical experience dealing with infectious diseases are now dead. old age.
Which leaves policy being steered by the current crop of oxygen wasting academics with their dumb models, group think, petty politics, spin and tall stories.

Read what Donald A Henderson, had to say. Here the disease was influenza, but it applies equally to all contagious respiratory diseases. He really did know what he was talking about. the experience and wisdom of these old school scientists are just being ignored and forgotten in a rush to embrace the new and the shiny.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.552.1109&rep=rep1&type=pdf

For those that don't know Henderson was one of the main people behind the successful smallpox eradication campaign. The smallpox eradication campaign was successful not due to universal vaccination of everyone, but due to an efficient track and trace with ring vaccination. Any analysis shows that general herd immunity to smallpox was never achieved, local herd immunity is what broke it, Smallpox helped by becoming attenuated over the years and was easy to diagnose making track and trace possible. Now smallpox exists just in a couple of vials in US and Russian weapons labs.

 

[w01fg4ng]

Isolate sick people, isolating 1 sick person is a thousand times more effective than isolating a thousand healthy people.

We would if we could but challenges and negligence in the testing process have prevented us from finding out who is and who isn't positive. Nothing is streamlined because we've never seen this exact problem.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Yeah what the boss/moderator said lol

All comes back to the not knowing/being prepared at the outset.

Shit I reckon there’s at least one story in every country of faulty ineffective tests in the beginning.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing

 

[novaveritas]

Yeah what the boss/moderator said lol

All comes back to the not knowing/being prepared at the outset.

Shit I reckon there’s at least one story in every country of faulty ineffective tests in the beginning.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing

This is nothing to do with hindsight, countries supposedly had pandemic preparedness plans, had run trials and exercises and still failed completely. people who called it differently were shot down, everywhere including here.
Coronavirus is really no different to any other respiratory illness, different virus but not anything special.

Testing in most of the West has been woeful. Protecting the vulnerable has been incredibly badly implemented bordering on willfull neglect.

If you can't test and identify infected individuals and their contacts and lose situation awareness then you have to protect those who are vulnerable and who choose to be protected and then let it run, you can't use models because the models rapidly fail. You can't go down the lockdown path without a clear plan and timescale back out out of it, yet the politicians have done exactly that.

Testing along with PPE are the biggest and most obvious failings along with internal turf wars and empire building by unaccountable bureaucrats and academics who have no skin in the game, who don't lose their jobs if they are wrong.

The captured regulators pushed forwards tests from their insiders which didn't work whilst blocking access to samples and trials for tests that did work and this is still going on.
Right now with Roche and Abbott getting preferential treatment, being able to ship out tests that they knew were faulty (Abbott) or tests where the specificity is in question (Roche nucleocapsid) and still blocking other tests. The also allowed select groups to make substandard diagnostic kits and are still doing this.

Now everyone is convinced a fabled vaccine is the answer, well I am betting that the disease has burned out before a vaccine makes it to market. Especially as the early candidates, Moderna and Oxford Vaccitech have serious issues, Moderna is going to run into scale up nightmares and efficiency problems and Oxford has unanswered issues with safety neither has ever gotten anything to market, ever. This current push for vaccine is about money pure and simple and that is from someone who thinks that vaccines used carefully are a critical part of health care.
It is extremely unlikely that vaccinated individuals can't transmit coronavirus (for example those vaccinated against flu can and do transmit flu), but by being vaccinated you screw up antibody testing.

Some countries may allow travelers who are vaccinated or who have past infection evidence to enter, others may choose not to, because from a national point of view a negative antibody test and a negative current infection test (PCR or antigen) means the traveler represents the very lowest risk, positive antibody test and negative current infection (PCR or antigen) test means that the entire thing hinges on the reliability (or unreliability) of the current infection test. PCR gives false negatives regularly.

By listening to the more lunatic and shrill academic prognosticators and their hysterical believers and locking down the politicians have gotten themselves in a hole which they can't get out of, and people continue to die from treatable conditions and the whole economy falls to pieces with its own consequences in terms of unnecessary harm and hardship. The current situation is spectacular as it is simultaneously a demand side crash with a supply side crash and it is going to be a bumpy ride. The stockmarket will soar and crash and soar and crash but the real economies are on their knees, nobody has a job or food because of wall street. The governments will make noises about helping the little guy and instead slide free money to their friends and the little guy or gal will get screwed once again. As was said at the start the risk is not the virus but the governments doing some stupid shit to be seen to be doing something, that risk has crystallized now.

Perhaps you wouldn't believe the things that I know have gone on and are still going on, but it doesn't serve any good purpose publicizing it.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

You wanna hear something odd? It's a conspiracy, yes, call me crazy. It's okay, I think this whole thing is fake, swear on my momma grave. Fake as f u c k because there's 5 mil Pretzel-19's cases, yeah? How come the whole economy got pinned down? It doesn't kisses. I have the anxiety to wear a mask, I don't deny this, yeah but I think it's fake. It doens't make any sense.

The virus is real and the reaction to it is expected. They never let a good crisis go to waste.

 

[nznity]

The federal reserve banking system Is designed to do that, take advantage of the crisis. That's how they maintain their power because that kinda economic system Is not sustainable, whether the COVID Is real or not, they are exploiting this shit to increase their power, make Ppl poor AND generate chaos to regain control. Meh

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

The federal reserve banking system Is designed to do that, take advantage of the crisis. That's how they maintain their power because that kinda economic system Is not sustainable, whether the COVID Is real or not, they are exploiting this shit to increase their power, make Ppl poor AND generate chaos to regain control. Meh

Speaking of the markets they've been very interesting since humans were taken off the floor a couple of months ago. Most trading has been done with computers for some time now but now they've removed humans from the process all together. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Shady's Fox]

The virus is real and the reaction to it is expected. They never let a good crisis go to waste.

It still doesn't add up because it's a question without answer. What possibly answer could be? Too many market stocks than people? Too many agencies than people? See? that's why you can't answer, nah man. And lemme tell you something else, the Gov had pre-planned plans for any kind of outbreak but still they do what they usually do while we eat eachother. It's a world without cure that's going nowhere, nothing new.

 

[Xorkoth]

How is this a serious pandemic? Or, how is it a pandemic at all?

It's a pandemic because it's a disease that has spanned the globe and is highly contagious. The flu is a pandemic every year. All a pandemic means is that it is highly contagious and not isolated to one region but has spread out of control. Is it super serious? I'm not sure. The response has, at this point, I will say been overblown, or rather, is becoming overblown now that we know more. However I think it was sensible to take an overly cautious approach, given that we don't/didn't know much about it. What if it had turned out that 3 months after initial symptoms, a second wave hits and people die from brain hemorrhaging? We would then all be moaning about how governments didn't do enough and the conspiracy theories would be all about how they were trying to let everyone die.

And to be honest, I'm still sketcehd out by it. We don't know the long-term ramifications. I'd rather live in a world where we act with an overabundance of caution than one where we say "eh whatever let's not do anything."

To suggest it's not a real disease is dumb though. It's obviously real. Suggesting it isn't is suggesting that everyone who has been sick from it or lost loved ones is lying.

I do think we're in real danger of the fallout from the response causing more damage than the disease though.

 

[JGrimez]

All a pandemic means is that it is highly contagious and not isolated to one region but has spread out of control.

Plus lots of death.
It's only a pandemic inasmuch as the flu is sometimes a pandemic.

And to be honest, I'm still sketcehd out by it.

Only due to the constant media barrage of lies.

To suggest it's not a real disease is dumb though. It's obviously real. Suggesting it isn't is suggesting that everyone who has been sick from it or lost loved ones is lying.

Some people are getting hung up on whether this is "real" or "fake" which can make one instinctively cling to a side.
The media hype that they've created (justifying lockdowns) is what's fake. The virus may be real, it may be something significant or it may be not much different to other novel coronaviruses that we've experienced before as a species with not much fanfare. As of this point it's looking like that. The problem is that people who were warning us and recklessly implementing lockdowns are now doubling down because they don't want to look stupid. Even if it's true you will never hear one of these psychopath leaders say "the lockdowns were a mistake, we shouldn't have done that". So they need to continue with the LIES and the FEAR to legitimize their actions.

I do think we're in real danger of the fallout from the response causing more damage than the disease though.

Correct. OBVIOUSLY correct.

It’s about the fact that there isn’t a health system in the world strong enough to handle the numbers of critically ill patients they were/are considering there could be.

What we've proven now is that their original proclamations were based on spurious, dubious, dodgy (arguably purposefully deceptive) data (see Imperial College)
Why can't some people understand this? If their original data was wrong, then the justification for the lockdowns was wrong.
Your argument is completely irrelevant fearmongering.

It's real man. I live in a high covid-19 density location. I've seen people younger and fitter than me struggling to breathe walking up a hill. I've seen people with the lung plague with pneumonia struggling to breathe, coughing their ass off perfectly healthy and young merely walking.
It's undeniable where I live. Does EVERYONE get pneumonia as a complication? Oh, definitely not... but it is scary as shit.

This proves absolutely nothing and is not out of the ordinary.

Look at the spate of high-level politicians/officials who have been caught violating their own strict lockdown procedures (Ferguson, Cummings etc)
This tells us that they don't even take their own shit seriously, so why should you?
Or just willing to accept "lockdown for thee, but not for me" ?

There's a rather simple psychological trait at work among those who refuse to accept that the lockdowns and social distancing measures were/are pointless:

"Escalation of commitment is a human behavior pattern in which an individual or group facing increasingly negative outcomes from a decision, action, or investment nevertheless continues the behavior instead of altering course. The actor maintains behaviors that are irrational, but align with previous decisions and actions.

Economists and behavioral scientists use a related term, sunk-cost fallacy, to describe the justification of increased investment of money or effort in a decision, based on the cumulative prior investment ("sunk cost") despite new evidence suggesting that the future cost of continuing the behavior outweighs the expected benefit."

 

[JGrimez]

As the figure for US deaths "from covid-19" reaches 100,000, it's useful to remember that those deaths will go on the official list of deaths for this year as deaths from "chronic lower respiratory diseases".
A majority of such deaths occur every year in the USA (and around the world) during the winter season (where present) peaking in Feb/March.
For example, in 2017:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
So if there are another 60,000 such deaths in the USA between now and the end of the year (we're almost half way through), this will have been a normal year for deaths from "chronic lower respiratory diseases"

Youtube CBS - Unplugged: H1N1 Cases Overestimated?
What about all those 'probable' covid deaths?
"Only a small fraction of cases that doctors flagged as most likely to be swine flu actually tested positive at state labs. [...]
We wanted to hear from CDC when we found this high negative rate, and they wouldn't answer a freedom of information request that we filed, they wouldn't answer questions we posed to them."


According to the CDC (doesn't say much, I know), from Feb 1st to May 16th 2020 death count is at 103% of expected deaths.

The public must lead us out of the lockdown
It's the ONLY way some level of normality is coming back. Those waiting on feckless government that got us into this unnecessary mess are seriously mistaken. Time to grow a pair, recognize the facts, and act on them.

"The public must lead Britain out of lockdown. The elites have invested too much of their reputation in the lockdown to be able to admit that it is a catastrophe. It falls to the people to restore liberty and get Britain back to work, says Brendan O’Neill‬."


Lockdown saved no lives and may have cost them, Nobel Prize winner believes


Your 'authorities' were:

Wrong about infection fatality rate.
Wrong about overrun hospitals.
Wrong about wait two weeks.
Wrong about the end of lockdowns.
Wrong about the need for tests.
Wrong about Japan.

But hey, maybe they're right about masks - there's a first time for everything!

^About 300 people die on average every day in Sweden. The majority of those are the elderly with serious health issues (obviously).
Here's a graph showing daily deaths that were attributed to SARS-CoV-2.over a 9 week period from March to May in no lockdown Sweden.

Maria Neira, director of Public Health, Environment and Social Determinants of the Health Department of the WHO said yesterday:
"A second wave is increasingly unlikely".
Thanks, a bunch of us had that figured out quite a while ago. But better late than never I suppose.


Norway 'could have controlled infection without lockdown': health chief
And so could every other country. But...too late.

‘Point of no return’: Belgium ‘won’t impose’ strict measures again even in case of 2nd coronavirus wave
At least someone has learned the lessons of this destructive farce.

UK Covid-19 infection peak may have fallen before lockdown, new analysis shows
Take a moment and think about this, and that it is likely true in most countries that imposed lockdowns.
"UK Covid-19 infection peak may have fallen before lockdown, new analysis shows"

Covid-19 Patients Not Infectious After 11 Days: Singapore Study
Read 2nd paragraph.

"Covid-19 patients are no longer infectious after 11 days of getting sick even though some may still test positive, according to a new study by infectious disease experts in Singapore.
A positive test “does not equate to infectiousness or viable virus,” a joint research paper by Singapore’s National Centre for Infectious Diseases and the Academy of Medicine, Singapore said. The virus “could not be isolated or cultured after day 11 of illness.”

Varadkar no longer has moral authority to tell anyone to stay at home
Irish (unelected) Prime Minister reminds everyone to stay at home, as he enjoys picnic with friends in the park, while not social distancing.

 

[JGrimez]

This is an interesting debate that I didn't think would happen.

Exposer of lack of vaccine safety Del Bigtree (producer of VAXXED) debates Alan Dershowitz (Trump lawyer and good friends with the late Epstein).



Bigtree makes some good points which Dershowitz weasels out of. They're really desperate to force this new vaccine onto people and are ignoring common sense in the process. This should be a red flag for most people.

 

[JGrimez]

TheBlaze

News and entertainment for people who love America.

www.conservativereview.com

The CDC just came out with a report that should be earth-shattering to the narrative of the political class, yet it will go into the thick pile of vital data and information about the virus that is not getting out to the public. For the first time, the CDC has attempted to offer a real estimate of the overall death rate for COVID-19, and under its most likely scenario, the number is 0.26%. Officials estimate a 0.4% fatality rate among those who are symptomatic and project a 35% rate of asymptomatic cases among those infected, which drops the overall infection fatality rate (IFR) to just 0.26% — almost exactly where Stanford researchers pegged it a month ago.

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Boris Johnson announces non-essential retail to reopen from June (Youtube)

Minute 1.02:
"We know that the transmission of the virus is lower outdoors."
So why was everyone locked indoors for 2 months, where the virus spreads more easily?
Why were the vulnerable elderly locked into care homes for two months, where they were more easily infected?
Are we to conclude that the govt. lockdowns significantly increased the infection and death rates?
Have governments just presided over what amounts to an 8 week process of mass murder of citizens through reckless stupidity?

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

Only due to the constant media barrage of lies.

I was sketched out by it before the media was even covering it. The media told me it was nothing, then it was the end of the world, now it's nothing again. Just like they said masks didn't help, then they said everyone should be wearing one. What initially sketched me out was the censorship on Chinese social media and now I'm seeing the same thing world wide. No one is allowed to speak out against the so-called experts even if they're experts themselves. Several doctors and experts that went against the popular opinions have already been censored if they were one of the lucky ones. The unlucky ones turned up dead (just 6 shots to the back of the head, a clear case of suicide).

My prediction: This is airborne AIDS and we're all going to be enjoying a life time of medication if we want to continue living. Get ready for $2k+ a month for your pills just like those with HIV take everyday. Anyone that refuses the medication and/or vaccine will not be allowed to participate in society and will be left for dead. I don't believe the numbers of deaths/cases. They've lied about everything else and they've been caught fudging the numbers too much over the last few months. None of these people care about our safety and they're mainly telling us it's time for the slaves to get back to work.

 

[JGrimez]

Then: "The mortality rate is really high, but don't wear a mask"
Two months later: "The mortality rate is way lower than what we thought, now wear the mask"

Youtube has confirmed it's "accidentally" been deleting comments containing 2 phrases that insult China's communist party. One of them refers to the "50 Cent Army" which is the CCP's army of online trolls that spreads propaganda and attacks truth-tellers.

Something quite concerning is what happened in NY state. Governor Cuomo ordered covid patients to be placed into high-risk nursing homes - which is obviously an insane and reckless policy. I would personally say it's murderous and criminal. Cuomo lied and said that he followed CDC/Federal guidelines. Then some people will blame Trump for the high death rates even though the states enjoy significant autonomy. Imagine how much lower the death rate would've been if Cuomo/NY didn't do stupid things like that?

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

Something quite concerning is what happened in NY state. Governor Cuomo ordered covid patients to be placed into high-risk nursing homes - which is obviously an insane and reckless policy. I would personally say it's murderous and criminal. Cuomo lied and said that he followed CDC/Federal guidelines. Then some people will blame Trump for the high death rates even though the states enjoy significant autonomy. Imagine how much lower the death rate would've been if Cuomo/NY didn't do stupid things like that?

I've heard from several sources including nurses I personally know that most hospitals are not prepared to treat this. They've been putting folks on ventilators because they're afraid open systems like CPAP machines will spread the virus. What they end up doing is placing you into a room by yourself, machines outside of it, and not doing the regular check-ins. Basically, if the machines are working they just keep walking. My local hospital still doesn't have enough masks for their staff.

What worries me the most about this virus is the fact that if you test positive and go to the hospital no one is allowed to see you. Can you imagine how that must feel? You're fighting for life, alone, can't see your family/friends, and the staff is terrified to even come in the room. In typical America fashion I'm not even sure I'd seek help at this point. I'd just take my chances at home. I wonder how many others are going through that as I type this. This is reminding me so much of HIV in the early days where those that were suffering from it wouldn't tell anyone for fear of being shunned.

Concerning the media: they've lied so much about this and other things I'm surprised anyone out there still believes them. I can't understand why people I know are intelligent fall into the trap of believing the media. It's so frustrating talking to those people. At home I have a family member that believes everything on CNN. I visit a very smart friend of mine and he believes everything he hears of Fox News. Both of these people have accused me of "believing lies" told by the news network that they dislike. Alternative media is just as bad now. I've seen so many good sources/shows practicing self censorship to avoid the ban bammer on youtube and other social networks. Once they get a taste of the money they all fall into the same trap.

I just want things to go back to normal. It's tiring sitting around waiting for something I can't see to start killing my family. It's frustrating wondering how much longer they can keep the economy going with all this debt they've just taken out. I won't be surprised if we end up in another Great Depression in the next couple of years. For now I'm enjoying steak while I can still buy it.

 

[S.J.B.]

The number of fatalities per capita in the U.K. has now surpassed that in Italy. The only countries with more fatalities per capita than the U.K. are now Belgium, Spain, and the micro-states San Marino and Andorra.

 

[CFC]

The number of fatalities per capita in the U.K. has now surpassed that in Italy. The only countries with more fatalities per capita than the U.K. are now Belgium, Spain, and the micro-states San Marino and Andorra.

The UK is one of Murdoch's (et alia) more interesting recent experiments: what happens when you put some of the most mediocre and least capable, competent or intelligent politicians in charge of a middle-ranking nation during a pandemic? Unfortunately I suspect the outcome isn't so catastrophic as to deter them from rolling the model out to other countries in the not-too-distant-future...