What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[user666]

Also of interest: after I got those test results back, I forwarded them to the supplier. The supplier was surprised, and said multiple acetone washes would be added to the process. After that, the product was whiter and the experience did improve somewhat, but never to a "magic" place.

If the 'ol theory is sound than a specialized wash, designed to bond to the OH groups would improve it much better.

I hope that there is another way to wash out the 'ol compounds than doing the Birch Reduction because I doubt you'd like to play with anhydrous ammonia and metallic sodium or lithium at home.

 

[indigoaura]

it just feels like.....almost nothing

That is why we are having such a hard time defining what the effects are. It is kind of similar to a glass of wine, now that you mention it. It has that same slow quality, but, not the same loss of inhibition/embarrassment.

That is actually something I wanted to bring up and get other people's feedback on. For me, MehDMA does not result in any notable loss of inhibition or loss of embarrassment. On magic MDMA, I might wander out into the party partially clothed, or end up making out with a girl, or give random friends back-rubs. I did things that I normally would not do because the weight of societal expectation was gone. It was a very "in the moment" experience where anything could happen. When you are an introverted person, taking away those typical inhibitions is significant. That is one of the reasons why it made sex exciting and different, in addition to the increased tactile sensation.

There is no loss of inhibition there with the meh. Alcohol has more loss of inhibition. It is still very possible to feel awkward, embarrassed, uncertain, etc.

 

[user666]

in my current TLC experiments I've been applying reagents to the spots. I've found the colours to be a lot more vibrant, and nuanced than when applying to raw crystal.

In reference to my recent sniffing around the MD-Ph alcohols as the potential "sleepy" contaminants of Meh MDMA, I thought you would find it useful to visualize them on your TLC plates.
To do that, you need to have a compound that preferentially reacts with any OH groups in your solvent system.

According to this article, the Tosyl Chloride selectively reacts with the OH groups in alcohols (including MDP2Pol, etc...) and in carboxylic acids, which the pure magic MDMA is not supposed to have !
Since Tosyl Chloride is a relatively large molecule, it will slow down the rise of any contaminants containing an OH group on the TLC plate. Naturally, the remaining ingredients of the solvent system cannot contain any OH groups ...and that means no water nor alcohols, but I am sure that our resident Pros will be able to come up with some workable mixture.

Please do not ignore this because it is a potential lead to a reliable Meh MDMA test.

P.S.
Maybe the Tosyl Chloride can alter the solubility of these MD-Ph alcohols in comparison to MDMA, enough so they can be easily distinguished and removed by some solvent, but I am not experienced enough to engineer that. Maybe these tosylates will even precipitate out of solution as solids, Help!

 

[user666]

I do not know if this would work with salts, but dissolving a dry contaminated MDMA sample in some anhydrous and non-alcoholic solvent and adding in the Tosyl Chloride would cause the hydrochloride gas to be evolved if the sample contains OH groups. Hydrogen Chloride can be easily detected by a wet litmus paper or even the human nose.
This would serve as a simple test to determine whether the sample contains MD-Ph alcohols or carboxylic acids ...which the pure MDMA is not supposed to have !

Question to Pros: Will the amino group in MDMA be tosylized by the Tosyl Chloride, too ?

 

[draculic acid69]

I don't think salts of MDP2Pol are liquids at room temperature.
Please correct me if I am wrong (I do not take offense at being corrected, I welcome it).

I don't think salts of MDP2Pol are liquids at room temperature.
Please correct me if I am wrong (I do not take offense at being corrected, I welcome it).

It doesn't form salts at all. I can't prove it but I seriously doubt that it's a solid.
Everywhere says it ether soluble so probably xylene,alcohol and acetone soluble as well.

 

[draculic acid69]

Your right with this one, but I am also considering other compounds which have an OH group sticking out and have been documented to be contaminants in "street MDMA". Such as:

• MDP2Pol and MDP1Pol, which are major byproducts according to this.
• Piperonyl alcohol and Piperonal oxime
• Alpha-Hydroxy-3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone (CID 13591054)
• 1,3-Benzodioxole-5-ethanol, alpha-methyl (CAS 6974-61-4)

Maybe some of them work similarly to Xanax, due to that OH group messing with GABA receptors like some alcohols.
Also, some of them decompose during GC testing and pretend to be MDMA... Just Google for: Hydroxy "Pyrolytic Disproportionation"


What would the lithium/sodium ammonia method do to the pure 3,4-MDMA ?

All those hydroxy compounds would be washed out in a recrystallization or be left behind in the gassing step except the hydroxyketone which will give the
Ephedrine equivalent of mdma and if subjected to a reduction the same way as pseudo ephedrine is u would get mdma.that could be the culprit though as pseudo ephedrine is a lot more meh than meth is so it might be the same with mdma.the lithium ammonia method won't hurt the mdma theoretically as long as excess lithium isn't used or over reduction might occur on the ring.u don't want that so using already formed mdma in a lithium ammonia rxn will fuck it.

 

[user666]

All those hydroxy compounds would be washed out in a recrystallization or be left behind in the gassing step except the hydroxyketone which will give the
Ephedrine equivalent of mdma

What about the N-Hydroxy-MDMA (a.k.a.: MDHMA) which has a basic amino group that can form a salt with HCl ?

 

[draculic acid69]

Your right with this one, but I am also considering other compounds which have an OH group sticking out and have been documented to be contaminants in "street MDMA". Such as:

• MDP2Pol and MDP1Pol, which are major byproducts according to this.
• Piperonyl alcohol and Piperonal oxime
• Alpha-Hydroxy-3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone (CID 13591054)
• 1,3-Benzodioxole-5-ethanol, alpha-methyl (CAS 6974-61-4)

Just because these show up in analysis data doesn't mean theres more than a % or two of them in the product and I doubt any of them would have any effect.also if these impurities are the culprit then they would have to only occur from using a new production route that wasn't around before meh appeared so is this list of impurities from before or after meh?
What route was used?
Are they common to multiple routes or a single route?

 

[draculic acid69]

So it was you! Can you find your discussion with @G_Chem about it ?
BTW: The 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol (CAS 6974-61-4) is another name for the "MDP2Pol", which is the major byproduct of reductive amination of the ketone MDP2P (a.k.a. PMK).

According to Rhodium:

And again it will all stay in the solvent layers and not end up in the product in more than trace amounts

 

[user666]

Just because these show up in analysis data doesn't mean theres more than a % or two of them in the product and I doubt any of them would have any effect.
...
And again it will all stay in the solvent layers and not end up in the product in more than trace amounts

I dunno. @indigoaura had a lot of it in the sample she has submitted to the lab and wrote that it was her most-Meh sample of all.

What route was used?
Are they common to multiple routes or a single route?

For example, see this article.

 

[draculic acid69]

What about the N-Hydroxy-MDMA (a.k.a.: MDHMA) which has a basic amino group that can form a salt with HCl ?

Apparently the MDOH in pihkal is n,OHMDA and is described as not meh in effect and the mdhma doesn't easily form salts with phosphoric, sulfuric, hydrochloric,perchloric acids and required a tedious process with oxalic acid which I think might be bad for you.it was also far more difficult to make the mdhma.the fact it doesn't form the hydrochloride with usual methods let's it's seperation via freebasing the meh to oil non polar extracting and regassing would seperate any mdma from mdhma.

 

[draculic acid69]

What about the N-Hydroxy-MDMA (a.k.a.: MDHMA) which has a basic amino group that can form a salt with HCl ?

Read the pihkal entry on it.it doesn't easily form the HCL salt.

 

[draculic acid69]

I dunno. @indigoaura had a lot of it in the sample she has submitted to the lab and wrote that it was her most-Meh sample of all.


For example, see this article.

Its a pdf.cant read it on this shit phone

 

[draculic acid69]

If the 'ol theory is sound than a specialized wash, designed to bond to the OH groups would improve it much better.

I hope that there is another way to wash out the 'ol compounds than doing the Birch Reduction because I doubt you'd like to play with anhydrous ammonia and metallic sodium or lithium at home.

There are no magic washes that remove OH group compounds and leave everything else behind.they don't exist

 

[ComicSansMS]

There are a couple of archives:

Darknet Market Archives (2013–2015)

<p>Mirrors of ~89 Tor-Bitcoin darknet markets & forums 2011–2015, and related material.</p>

www.gwern.net

I grabbed one, if you can remember any more information to narrow down the thread let me know.

@Negi Big thumbs up mate, from my post 4851 you and other's have really gotten back into it.

I need to read through the posts and do some searching

As soon as I see the seller's name (Started with a Ph or a Pf) I will know it and from that name you would be able to key search for all substantial threads with his name in them

In amongst the "Where is my MdMAyyy brah" or "My droogs have been seized mate" posts, there were a lot of intelligent posts and pictures of testing agent reactions with reports as well. There were also people that sounded like backyard chemists/had studied chemistry or in the medical field posting things that went over my basic knowledge of why vinegar descale kettles Anyone making posts saying their MDMA lacked something during the roll got buried in a bot like fashion or the seller would flood the thread with a big sale which would bring everyone out of the woods.

Anecdotally, IT WAS the amazing/magical MDMA when smaller amounts (less than 2.5grams) were purchased directly from overseas and took their time to get here and then the supposed 5+ gram orders that were just flying through the mail & customs in standard envelopes were often but not always the meh batches. Often they would test similar but. Supposedly he also sold to some Australian vendors a different product than most Australians who were well versed in MDMA, were usually receiving and those batches were always MAGIC but obviously 3-5 X the price depending on amount.

The Australian seller was not ETM btw and he's not the key to this information either. Sorry if the above is a bit confusing with the way I wrote it but it's a touchy subject for a lot of reasons and to a lot of people, but he possessed the magic MDMA, along with other batches that ranged from pure magic to semi-magic to meh to blah.

Where's Peter Nash when you need him? Though I don't know if he was a moderator during this time.

 

[user666]

There are no magic washes that remove OH group compounds and leave everything else behind.they don't exist

What about the Tosyl Chloride, Organosilanes and other chemoselective methods that preferentially bind to the OH groups ?

 

[indigoaura]

@ComicSansMS

Anecdotally, IT WAS the amazing/magical MDMA when smaller amounts (less than 2.5grams) were purchased directly from overseas and took their time to get here and then the supposed 5+ gram orders that were just flying through the mail & customs in standard envelopes were often but not always the meh batches. Often they would test similar but. Supposedly he also sold to some Australian vendors a different product than most Australians who were well versed in MDMA, were usually receiving and those batches were always MAGIC but obviously 3-5 X the price depending on amount.

This is interesting to me, because I have come across an Australian vendor who claims to have been around since the original Silk Road and advertises that his product is different than other products being sold. If the photos are accurate, the product looks like other magic product photos that have been shared here: clear jagged crystals. I know we cannot openly discuss names and whatnot here, but would you recognize the Australian vendor's name?

If I understand the rest of your post, you are saying that there was a vendor who sold ranges of MDMA from "pure magic to semi-magic to meh to blah." Did he openly discuss/advertise this?

 

[PlayHard]

Both the same product. Flash on and daylight taken photo - tests fine with test kit. Yet to indulge and take some.. Anyone who remembers me previously posting knows I was skeptical of tan/cola mdma and always got a nice clear product which I did have images of before taking a break.

url=https://ibb.co/XS24DDQ]

[/url]

 

[indigoaura]

@PlayHard I don't think anyone can tell anything from photos really, as there is a pretty wide variation in reports of the appearance of magic/meh. However, that color and those rounded edges to the crystal look like meh product I have had. I know @G_Chem has speculated here before that a more jagged crystal edge may possibly indicate a better product. Hope that your experience is magic though!

 

[user666]

Yet to indulge and take some...

If you do then please do it right and collect some hard data.

1) Fast for 6h before, drink only unsweetened water.
2) Take a photo of your pupil after being 1 minute in bright light (without the flash)
3) If you have a glucometer (or know a diabetic that has one) then measure your blood sugar right before consumption.
4) Weigh 1.5mg of the crystal per 1kg of your body weight (0.68mg/lbs)
5) Dissolve the crystal completely in pure water and consume
6) Throughout the trip don't eat and drink only unsweetened water with some kitchen salt added (don't add so much that it becomes yucky to you). Note how much you drank.
7) Note the come up time
8 ) Retake a photo of your pupil after being 1 minute in the same bright light as in pt.2 (without the flash)
9) Measure your blood sugar again and note the time.
10) Write down your objective effects (locked jaw, eye wiggles, temperature, pulse, bowel movements, urination, etc...)
11) Note the time of your peaking.
12) Retake a photo of your pupil after being 1 minute in the same bright light as in pt.2 (without the flash)
13) Measure your blood sugar again and note the time.
14) Write down your subjective effects (energy, fast music appreciation, sociability, empathy, tactile sensations, etc...)
15) Write down your objective effects (locked jaw, eye wiggles, temperature, pulse, bowel movements, urination, etc...)
16) Note the comedown time
17) Note hangover time if any.

Report but do not post pictures of your eyes. Just measure the relative pupil dilation. Tell us what other drugs you had and when.

Note:
Don't throw the remainder away if it turns out to be crap ! Save it for testing later.