Mental Health The UK's unfair rules on Benzos for Mental Health patients!

[evo4ever]

The whole date rape drug thing is pure media hype. Aside from the fact any benzo could be used for that purpose, the most common date rape drug by a huge margin is alcohol. Pretty obvious when you think about it. But that doesn't sell papers or get clicks.

Nitrazepam is definitely one that knocks you out and if you stay awake it proper messes with your head and has you fucked up. Personally I wasn't a massive fan since I prefer my more gentle floaty benzos like diazepam or temazepam. But I still had some fun with it.

Honestly for me personally, if I just wanted a straight sleeper, I have found zolpidem does an excellent job. If I just take one and go straight to bed I'll be out like a light even if I'm still stimmed up. It just works for sleep. If I only wanted something to help me sleep, not get high on, I'd go for those. But the NHS doesn't really like scripting it and prefers zopiclone which ime isn't as effective for sleep, although is more fun for recreation. I think the reason is the whole "Ambien walrus" thing which I've never really had but to be fair it seems common enough that it's a legit concern so I understand why they don't like to use it.

I hate Zopiclone cos it leaves a gross metallic taste in my mouth which I cannot tolerate! Back to benzos, my favourite benzo is probably Clonazepam and it's also very similar to Nitrazepam chemically, in fact Clonazepam is synthesized from Nitrazepam! they both fall into the "nitro-benzodiazepine" family of benzos. I can buy Clonazepam (Rivotril) all day long at cheap prices made by Galenika, I've also got access to Temazepam jellies as well but they're quite expensive! but whats the point when I can get them for free?

 

[Wilson Wilson]

I hate Zopiclone cos it leaves a gross metallic taste in my mouth which I cannot tolerate! Back to benzos, my favourite benzo is probably Clonazepam and it's also very similar to Nitrazepam chemically, in fact Clonazepam is synthesized from Nitrazepam! they both fall into the "nitro-benzodiazepine" family of benzos.

Oh yes I know. Interesting that they feel so different subjectively despite being so closely related chemically. Clonazepam to me is nice and clearheaded, nitrazepam is very much the opposite of that!

Afaik the only difference between the two is that clonazepam has a chlorine ring whereas nitrazepam doesn't. That difference makes clonazepam much more potent but also much less hypnotic.

Chemistry is a curious thing, wish I understood it better.

Anyway I consider clonazepam to be excellent for long lasting anxiety relief without monging me out too much like diazepam tends to, but for chilling out I'd rather have that temazepam.

 

[evo4ever]

Oh yes I know. Interesting that they feel so different subjectively despite being so closely related chemically. Clonazepam to me is nice and clearheaded, nitrazepam is very much the opposite of that!

Afaik the only difference between the two is that clonazepam has a chlorine ring whereas nitrazepam doesn't. That difference makes clonazepam much more potent but also much less hypnotic.

Chemistry is a curious thing, wish I understood it better.

Anyway I consider clonazepam to be excellent for long lasting anxiety relief without monging me out too much like diazepam tends to, but for chilling out I'd rather have that temazepam.

I did AS/A2 Level Chemistry in college I loved it lol, I was gonna get a degree in it but I did Computer Science instead.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

It's criminal! People with anxiety DESERVE proper treatment with benzo's. This is why benzo's are such a problem in the UK. Those of us with severe anxiety have to obtain them illegally which makes you MUCH more likely to take too much and end up addicted and/or abusing them.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Personally I disagree, I think the UK is not too far off with the way in which it treats benzos. They should only be used in the most severe and debilitating cases of anxiety, I don't believe they should be prescribed in the majority of cases. A life time of benzo addiction and everything that goes with that should be a last resort.

Perhaps if we went back about a decade then I would say the attitude around then in this country was where I would want it. Doctors were pretty fucking careful around them but it was still fairly easy to get a couple of weeks worth of temazepam or nitrazepam or whatever.

 

[evo4ever]

I find it bizzare the way its much easier to get REPEAT scripted strong opioids like Oxy but not benzos! I mean opioids imo are much more addictive especially the stronger ones and much more deadlier in overdose. The worst part about benzo addiction is the WDs are more severe compared to opioid WDs.

Addiction potential: Opioids are worse.
Death through OD: MUCH more likely with Opioids. In fact I don't even think u can die from a benzo OD alone.
WD Severity: Benzos, but Opioids are not far off.
Legality: Opioids are Class A Schedule 2 controlled drugs, Benzos are Class C Schedule 4 part 2 (which is the lowest ranking in terms of overall restriction, you don't even need to sign for Benzos at the pharmacy).

I've used Morphine and Diazepam as example drugs for the facts above ^

So to summarize you'd think opioids would be harder to get considering the facts I've just mentioned! The only possible reason I can think of why doctors are more willing to prescribe strong opioids over benzos is they probably prioritise pain conditions over health conditions requiring benzos.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

The attitudes towards various controlled drugs are all over the place in this country. Amphetamines are class B schedule 2 but almost anyone with an ADHD diagnosis would have no trouble getting Vyvanse at the least. Benzos are class C schedule 4 but you have to jump through so many hoops to get some even for PRN use it's madness.

I have had a PRN (take as needed) benzo script for years now and I like to think it has been a net positive in my life. I have had severe anxiety since I was a child. When I was a teenager I was doing things that should have made me happy (going on dates etc) but I couldn't enjoy anything because my head was going mad with getting worried about absolutely any little thing that could possibly go wrong at any one moment and I'd start panicking.

I was not even diagnosed with anxiety until I was an adult, so this went untreated all that time and it took years to get back to being functional.

I cannot help but think that if some doctor had just given me a little diazepam as a teenager I would have been bloody fine. Would I have a benzo dependency by now? Probably, although if used PRN even that isn't a certainty. Would I have an addiction? I really don't think so, because from a young age I'd have seen it as a medication, a tool, and not "a drug" to abuse.

They happily script children with ADHD amphetamines and methylphenidate, both strong stimulants. Why not give the ones having actual panic attacks some relief too?

I do feel strongly benzos are treated way too strictly in the UK due to my experiences and I also agree with @ChemicallyEnhanced that a large part of why benzos are such a problem in the UK is because they are underprescribed leading to uncontrolled self-medication.

You can easily look at various European countries where benzos are handed out pretty freely and treated not too different from SSRIs by the docs, and they do not have epidemics of benzo abuse.

Over here we hate using benzos and look at what we have, bunch of teenagers gobbling up pressed Xanax bars. I don't think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of young people with mental health issues get no treatment from the NHS (unless you count an unqualified-in-mental-health GP giving you random SSRIs based on a Google search as valid treatment, which I don't).

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

I wouldn't agree with the idea that opiods have a higher addiction potential, but that's opening a whole can of worms and will dereail the thread. For me they are absolutely on a par with opiods in terms of how dangerous they are.

The difference in prescribing habits is simply a reflection on the culture within this country in the past. Opiod painkillers were prescribed at really quite low levels until the last ten years or so when numbers have shot up, so we haven't had a media frenzy and backlash around the effects of prescribing opiods until right about now as levels rise and people look at what's happening in the US.

Benzos on the other hand were widely prescribed to many people for many years, especially in certain areas like Scotland. The NHS have had to spend a gigantic amount of time and money mopping up casualties of drugs that they themselves prescribed. Once bitten twice shy and all that.

Basically we have ALL been victims of the drug companies artificially promoting benzos as being essentially non-addictive and consequence free in the 60s and 70s, we're still clearing up the backlash and mess of misunderstanding around them now because of this.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

The way I see it, they always go from one extreme to another.

Either a certain medication is amazing and risk free and non-addictive and is a miracle cure for everything with no downsides... or a medication is evil and addictive and dangerous and should only be used in the most extreme cases.

Why don't they just treat things with a more sensible middle ground approach? As in: this medication, like basically every other drug in the world, has both benefits and risks, and we should judge whether the pros outweigh the cons for each patient.

Instead of doctors, who are meant to be smart, just buying into the hype of pharma marketing whenever they shit out a new drug, then later turning against it when they find out that hype was based on lies, it would be much more sensible for them to use their own judgement as medical professionals to begin with.

I feel like I'm crazy here when I look at this shit.

 

[evo4ever]

Well I've been on the Temazepam for a few days now and I've slept right through the night getting a full 8 hours sleep! The improvement in mood and motivation has been quite dramatic just because I've been able to get adequate sleep by taking a single 10mg Temazepam tablet at night. My doctor doesn't know how I've responded to the Temazepam yet which he will next Tuesday when I've got a telephone appointment. I'm gonna try taking one tablet every other night instead of every night, I don't want to get used to these. I've got a script which will last me till the 28th, I've got x5 on hand and x16 to pick up next Tuesday.

I must say Temazepam is probably the best night-time (hypnotic) benzo I've ever tried, even better than Nitrazepam which is the only benzo I can compare Temazepam to. The only down side is I can feel a bit of Euphoria from it, whereas I didn't get that from Diazepam. Is Temazepam known to be a Euphoric benzo?

 

[sekio]

Temazepam is pretty much the Platonic ideal of a euphoric benzo... most benzosiazepine (ab)users I have met rank it very highly.

However, it is also one of the acceptable medications for the US Air Force. I believe astronauts use it too. So it's well-established as an effective sleep medication.

I am of the opinion that some restrictions on benzodiazepine use should be in place. Certainly they do have their uses, for stopping panic attacks/seizures and procedural sedation they are unmatched.

It is important to realize that benzodiazepines are very much a band-aid. In almost every case they do nothing to actually fix the underlying insomnia/anxiety. Regular use leads to nasty nasty situations where after a period of benzo overuse, the anxiety seems to have gotten ten times worse.

Take them only when absolutely needed, and as infrequently as possible.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Is Temazepam known to be a Euphoric benzo?

Very much so.

I'm gonna try taking one tablet every other night instead of every night, I don't want to get used to these.

Smort.

It is important to realize that benzodiazepines are very much a band-aid. In almost every case they do nothing to actually fix the underlying insomnia/anxiety.

This is true for literally every single psych med. With the exception of psychedelic medicine, which is very promising don't get me wrong, but in terms of the psych meds actually approved for prescription right now, none of them actually do anything to treat the underlying condition. If you stop taking any of them you get bad withdrawals, rebound symptoms, and go back to being ill. This is equally true of SSRIs as it is of benzos. But doctors are happy to shovel SSRIs at anyone without any worry because hey at least you won't get high.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

However, it is also one of the acceptable medications for the US Air Force. I believe astronauts use it too. So it's well-established as an effective sleep medication.

I guess I have trouble believing that any substantial drug would be on hold for astronauts to use. What happens if they find an emergency situation needing their cognition intact a few hours after taking temazepam? Also, they really only keep to what they really need (weight concerns). It seems to me that they have to show adept at calming activities like meditation to help induce sleep (if they insomnia, even on occasion, I don't think they'd be viable as astronauts. Basically, they take the cream of the cream of the cream of the crop: polymaths in all the sciences and healthy on all fronts.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Glad to see this thread has had a good outcome and you are feeling better.

I've had about eight hours sleep in the last three nights so although I'm not suffering like you I'm not doing wonderfully. Had started tripping by last night the walls were breathing and swirling, happens so easily now when I miss sleep. Think its probably a sign that my head is not in the best of conditions but c'est la vie.

 

[evo4ever]

Glad to see this thread has had a good outcome and you are feeling better.

I've had about eight hours sleep in the last three nights so although I'm not suffering like you I'm not doing wonderfully. Had started tripping by last night the walls were breathing and swirling, happens so easily now when I miss sleep. Think its probably a sign that my head is not in the best of conditions but c'est la vie.

I'd give u one of my Temazepam tablets if I could lol. Seriously tho I cannot cope with insomnia, it causes me to self-harm! I'm glad my GP has sufficiently helped me while I wait till I see my psychiatrist on the 28th. I don't know where I'd be if it weren't for the Temazepam tablets... Probably in a padded room somewhere being force fed antipsychotics or something which imo carry worse side-effects than benzos!

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

I'm hoping my psychiatrist will script me some on monday but I'm not optimistic because of my history, zolpidem is much more likely but even that would be appreciated tbh.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

I guess I have trouble believing that any substantial drug would be on hold for astronauts to use. What happens if they find an emergency situation needing their cognition intact a few hours after taking temazepam? Also, they really only keep to what they really need (weight concerns). It seems to me that they have to show adept at calming activities like meditation to help induce sleep (if they insomnia, even on occasion, I don't think they'd be viable as astronauts. Basically, they take the cream of the cream of the cream of the crop: polymaths in all the sciences and healthy on all fronts.

NASA has definitely studied the effects of hypnotics (zolpidem and temazepam) on astronauts in spaceflight because insomnia is very common among astronauts.

How routinely they're actually used I am not sure, but it does make sense - being in space is obviously gonna fuck up your sleep schedule, and how well is an astronaut going to perform if they've barely slept?

Phenibut was actually created as a hypnotic and anxiolytic specifically for the Soviet cosmonauts because it doesn't impair functioning like benzos and z-drugs do.

But yeah use of sedatives seems fairly common in spaceflight.

I'm hoping my psychiatrist will script me some on monday but I'm not optimistic because of my history, zolpidem is much more likely but even that would be appreciated tbh.

Zolpidem is a very effective sleeper imo. I never got the whole "Ambien walrus" thing off it but it really helps me sleep.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Yeah it's pretty effective tbh, I would be happy with zolpidem. I've had a couple of odd moments in connection with using it but nothing major, of course I would prefer temazepam so I can get a little 30 minutes buzz before I sleep

 

[evo4ever]

I think the whole respiratory depression surrounding the combination of opioids and benzos is a little over-hyped imo. I mean I've been taking my regular doses of Oxy and Pregab on top of the Temazepam and I haven't noticed any added respiratory depression. Maybe it only becomes an issue in much higher doses.

 

[MsDiz]

I think the whole respiratory depression surrounding the combination of opioids and benzos is a little over-hyped imo. I mean I've been taking my regular doses of Oxy and Pregab on top of the Temazepam and I haven't noticed any added respiratory depression. Maybe it only becomes an issue in much higher doses.

Be aware you have tolerance to oxy and pregabalin so the temazepam isn’t going to play too much into respiratory depression. If you gave that combination to someone who is opioid naive then I’d imagine there would be major problems.

Still, I wouldn’t be increasing that temazepam dose. Don’t take the risk.