People who have no faith

[Gloomp]

Yes, you're probably correct and I admit they were poor examples of 'spirituality'. However, I desperately wanted to believe there was more to life than this mortal coil, but my logical, rational side held me back until I eventually gave up trying. One thing I do know for certain though, is that organised religion has irrevocably damaged human spirituality...

Giving up is for the best. Take a look arou

You are turning your back on a lot of religious harm to society.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL

Of course religious zealots are absolute bonkers, but i'm not gonna waste my emotional energy to the grotesque homophobia they seem pleased with, and all the other elements of the world that are scourged and scarred due to ancestral relics of the brain. I'm too middle-aged and exasperated with the entire world that I must occupy my thoughts elsewhere because we always have something on our minds at all times: it might as well be something positive.

 

[JessFR]

I'm just wondering if anyone that uses this part of BL has no faith & doesn't believe in an afterlife, ghosts, magick, curses, Jesus, "God", Kali etc etc.........(Insert whatever faith system etc you may think of first)

Since being a really small kid I've had faith in a higher force & beings that go way beyond anything we can understand while alive, I've said before about the events I've gone through before & the first was flying down the stairs as a kid. My mom still says to this day I fell down but I would have died & she gets really mad if I bring it up still to this day. Also the first time I saw a demon I was with a friend who was a really strict Jehovah's Witnesses & her mom came round came round going mad at me saying I was making her daughter cry with tales of ghosts etc but we had both seen something truly fucking evil, still to this day out of all then stuff I've gone through that made me 100% SURE there is something way beyond what we can understand & made me sure in my "faith" of a "God" but sadly too many people when they hear the word "God" get trapped in this strange Jewish cult idea of a God (You have to give it to Christianity they sure done a good job of messing up most folks minds when it comes to "God" sadly)

I'm just curious what made people so sure that nothing else is one the other side & why you have NO faith in anything when we die.
I'm NOT here to judge anyone or to try & change a persons view, most people think I am weird & mad at the very least for having the faith I do so please if you post on this thread show respect to another persons ideas etc which sadly is sometimes lacking on this part of BL for some reason.

Why do you have NO faith in anything?
What made you come to this conclusion?
What do you make of people with a faith?

I'm probably pretty close to how you describe.

I don't believe in ghosts or spirits, curses, magic, or that Jesus was a God.

My beliefs are driven by a belief in the scientific method to establish accurate information. I believe that the human mind is extremely inaccurate at objectively observing the world and evaluating it. And that science is as close as we can get to getting to real answers. Which is why I don't believe in any of the above.

I haven't seen any evidence that meets my standards to suggest any of it is true, and plenty of indication to think they are all just manifestations of the flaws in human perception and reasoning.

However, I don't not believe in anything. Even with no scientific reasoning, I do feel I have enough logical and deductive reasoning to believe that there probably is some kind of afterlife. Personally I believe that the universe, reality, is probably infinite. I believe that given my thought experiments about the nature of the mind, that we probably have something that could be described as a soul. And following it to its conclusion, I believe that when we die, a part of us, our consciousness, our continuity of experience, will live on in some other form, somewhere, at some time, forever.

You could consider it a kind of a belief in reincarnation.

That's what I believe to a large degree.

I'm addition to that, I also have faith that there is some kind of being, some... Thing, greater than us, that gives reason to the existence of the world. You might call it God if you like. Although I don't believe in any abrahamic God.

That's not as much a deduction as my belief in the afterlife, it's more the closest thing I have to an actual faith rather than a belief I feel I have cause to follow.

So that about sums it up. In my every day life I try to follow a reasoned, scientific approach to belief, and because of that I see no reason to believe in almost any of the kind of things you mention like ghosts and the paranormal and such.

But I do have beliefs in some most abstract kinda of ideas about the afterlife and the soul, which I could spend ages going into explaining how I came to those beliefs. And I have a faith in some kind of higher power.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Without forgiveness of others, the world is doomed to endless warfare and hatred. The vast majority of people just want what is best for themselves and their loved ones. To hate them and cast them down for acting in fear is will only lead to more suffering. Only with understanding will we ever ascend beyond this hatred, and only with acceptance can there be understanding.

We all understand what discrimination without a just cause is.

Repentance has to be before forgiveness can be given.

You are asking people to forgive an ongoing discrimination.

You go ahead and forgive the bastards that will just turn around and continue their vile ways.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Giving up is for the best. Take a look arou



Of course religious zealots are absolute bonkers, but i'm not gonna waste my emotional energy to the grotesque homophobia they seem pleased with, and all the other elements of the world that are scourged and scarred due to ancestral relics of the brain. I'm too middle-aged and exasperated with the entire world that I must occupy my thoughts elsewhere because we always have something on our minds at all times: it might as well be something positive.

I guess that you do not have children or women or gays in your family tree.

I hope no one comes for whatever you are if those around you think as you do.

For evil to grow and all that.

Strange though that correcting is though to be quite the positive and loving thing to do, while you think the opposite. Oh well.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I'm probably pretty close to how you describe.

I don't believe in ghosts or spirits, curses, magic, or that Jesus was a God.

My beliefs are driven by a belief in the scientific method to establish accurate information. I believe that the human mind is extremely inaccurate at objectively observing the world and evaluating it. And that science is as close as we can get to getting to real answers. Which is why I don't believe in any of the above.

I haven't seen any evidence that meets my standards to suggest any of it is true, and plenty of indication to think they are all just manifestations of the flaws in human perception and reasoning.

However, I don't not believe in anything. Even with no scientific reasoning, I do feel I have enough logical and deductive reasoning to believe that there probably is some kind of afterlife. Personally I believe that the universe, reality, is probably infinite. I believe that given my thought experiments about the nature of the mind, that we probably have something that could be described as a soul. And following it to its conclusion, I believe that when we die, a part of us, our consciousness, our continuity of experience, will live on in some other form, somewhere, at some time, forever.

You could consider it a kind of a belief in reincarnation.

That's what I believe to a large degree.

I'm addition to that, I also have faith that there is some kind of being, some... Thing, greater than us, that gives reason to the existence of the world. You might call it God if you like. Although I don't believe in any abrahamic God.

That's not as much a deduction as my belief in the afterlife, it's more the closest thing I have to an actual faith rather than a belief I feel I have cause to follow.

So that about sums it up. In my every day life I try to follow a reasoned, scientific approach to belief, and because of that I see no reason to believe in almost any of the kind of things you mention like ghosts and the paranormal and such.

But I do have beliefs in some most abstract kinda of ideas about the afterlife and the soul, which I could spend ages going into explaining how I came to those beliefs. And I have a faith in some kind of higher power.

For a guy who does not believe or have faith in things without evidence, you sure have a lot of faith in things that you have no evidence for.

Would you say that you are a deist?

Regards
DL

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

Just when i thought GB wasn't trying to push peoples buttons, he calls JessFR a guy.

Can you try any harder?

Alright, i'll get out of the peanut gallery.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Why do you have NO faith in anything?
What made you come to this conclusion?
What do you make of people with a faith?

I have faith in myself and my own abilities. I don't see any need to believe in some mystical higher power to control my life for me, nor do I find any comfort in doing so. The philosophy of determinism is very depressing by its nature, it devalues life itself. I prefer to believe in free will. I deal the cards.

There is zero evidence, either scientific or anecdotal, that leads me to believe in spirits or gods. I am a logical data driven person. If tomorrow there was irrefutable evidence a higher power existed I'd accept it. Until that happens, I won't assume one does based on faith, because I have no reason to need that faith.

I think people who feel as if they need faith are either scared of death or their own insignificance or feel like they need to be told what to do by a crypto-state - for that is what all organised religion is. I don't feel an urge for any of that. I feel much more comfortable making my own meaning and having control over my own life. I know I'll die and be forgotten one day. I know I am ultimately insignificant. I certainly don't want another state ordering me around.

I have no animosity towards anyone who is religious, spiritual, or any similar label so long as they mind their own business. If they start trying to convert me, or attack me for not believing what they do, then they can go fuck themselves. Zero respect deserved for that lot. But most religious people are happy just minding their own business so I got nothing against 'em. I return the same courtesy - I don't even speak about these things unless someone asks me. I certainly don't try to convert others to my own way of thinking. My values are my values.

 

[JessFR]

For a guy who does not believe or have faith in things without evidence, you sure have a lot of faith in things that you have no evidence for.

Would you say that you are a deist?

Regards
DL

I'm not a guy.

Deism isn't quite the label I'd use, but it's in the ballpark. I don't believe in a personal God that responds to your requests. But I do believe there may be a structure to why certain things happen.

I generally believe all of history is predetermined, and so no I don't believe in a God that changes things past what was set in place to start with.

However, where I might not be entirely aligned with Deism is that while I don't believe God, or whatever you wanna call it, changes anything in response to our requests. I don't entirely reject the notion that events may already be set in motion such that it may appear that there has been intervention.

Whatever God is, assuming such a thing exists, I believe more that God is just a convenient label for an underlying structure to the universe. A broad, overarching meaning to the existence of existence.

My belief, such as it is, is in a very broad, abstract diety that can't properly be put into human terms. I don't believe in a personal God or even perhaps a God that's intelligent in quite the same way we are. Not that there isn't an intelligence, just that such an intelligence may be very unlike our own.

In practical real every day life terms it doesn't matter much though. My beliefs still amount to a belief that you shouldn't expect God to intervene at your request, or that your life for all practical purposes doesn't end when you did.

Assuming my beliefs are right, my beliefs are not so much that YOU will live after death, but that your perception of continuous existence lives on. Whatever it will live in after your death, I feel it's unlikely to have any of your memories. You won't know it has happened. Just as I believe it has happened before and that you don't now remember any existence before your birth, even if such an existence.. Existed..

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Oops

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Just when i thought GB wasn't trying to push peoples buttons, he calls JessFR a guy.

Can you try any harder?

Alright, i'll get out of the peanut gallery.

You may as well if all you will do is attack the messenger instead of speaking to the message.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

My values are my values.

It sounds like your values do not include the notion that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

You seem to be immune to the harm religions are doing to the women and gays in your family tree.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I'm not a guy.

Deism isn't quite the label I'd use, but it's in the ballpark. I don't believe in a personal God that responds to your requests. But I do believe there may be a structure to why certain things happen.

I generally believe all of history is predetermined, and so no I don't believe in a God that changes things past what was set in place to start with.

However, where I might not be entirely aligned with Deism is that while I don't believe God, or whatever you wanna call it, changes anything in response to our requests. I don't entirely reject the notion that events may already be set in motion such that it may appear that there has been intervention.

Whatever God is, assuming such a thing exists, I believe more that God is just a convenient label for an underlying structure to the universe. A broad, overarching meaning to the existence of existence.

My belief, such as it is, is in a very broad, abstract diety that can't properly be put into human terms. I don't believe in a personal God or even perhaps a God that's intelligent in quite the same way we are. Not that there isn't an intelligence, just that such an intelligence may be very unlike our own.

In practical real every day life terms it doesn't matter much though. My beliefs still amount to a belief that you shouldn't expect God to intervene at your request, or that your life for all practical purposes doesn't end when you did.

Assuming my beliefs are right, my beliefs are not so much that YOU will live after death, but that your perception of continuous existence lives on. Whatever it will live in after your death, I feel it's unlikely to have any of your memories. You won't know it has happened. Just as I believe it has happened before and that you don't now remember any existence before your birth, even if such an existence.. Existed..

In conclusion, you think of god as a mystery.

Do tell all the religious who think otherwise as their ways are harmful to women and gays and the gullible who think a genocidal god is somehow a good god.

Regards
DL

 

[JessFR]

I don't have an inherent problem with followers of more conventional religious beliefs.

I've met some really great religious organizations, with great people in them. I like it when religion helps motivate people to help societies least fortunate.

There's lots of room to interpret these religions.

The problem I have is how many people use them to justify their prejudices.

In other words, the Christians I've met who want to help feed and shelter the homeless, women escaping domestic violence, etc. They're great.

I just wish they were all like that. Or even just mostly like that.

Religion is kinda like an amplifier, bringing out the best in good people and the worst in bad people.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Religion is kinda like an amplifier, bringing out the best in good people and the worst in bad people.

And the worst in good people.

Few today would respect Hitler, yet the religious adore their genocidal god.

If that is not bringing out the worst evil in good people, I don't know what it is.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I don't have an inherent problem with followers of more conventional religious beliefs.

Then you must like being discriminated against without a just cause and just for being a woman.
If you cannot fight for your sister or yourself, you are not much of a woman and certainly are not living by the Golden Rule.

Complacency in your type of person makes you a part of the problem and not a part of the solution.

Regards
DL

 

[JessFR]

Then you must like being discriminated against without a just cause and just for being a woman.
If you cannot fight for your sister or yourself, you are not much of a woman and certainly are not living by the Golden Rule.

Complacency in your type of person makes you a part of the problem and not a part of the solution.

Regards
DL

Funny, that's exactly the kind of rigid, extremist, us vs them no room for gray kinda thinking that makes me dislike religious extremists to begin with.

Frankly I see very little difference between your words and their words. Both come down to "believe what I believe or you're the enemy".

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Complacency in your type of person makes you a part of the problem and not a part of the solution

Who decides what the problem is and what the solution should be, you?

 

[JessFR]

Extremists see the problem as being the extremists of every other belief system, in opposition to their belief system.

To me the problem is extremists of every creed, in opposition to the rest of us who just want peace.

I want no part of any belief system that says if you don't believe as I do, you're wrong and need to be fought.

 

[Gloomp]

I guess that you do not have children or women or gays in your family tree.

I hope no one comes for whatever you are if those around you think as you do.

For evil to grow and all that.

Strange though that correcting is though to be quite the positive and loving thing to do, while you think the opposite. Oh well.

Regards
DL

LISTEN. TO. ME.

Any emotional energy placed upon the human wreckage's of the world instantly validates that they should share a part of my life, to which they have no such privilege. I won't have it.

I get it. You're speaking practically; sociologically; standing up for others and yourself. That's completely fine and I wish more people would do it. I really am happy people with your volition exists. But i'm too middle-aged, too jaded to give a fuck what assholes can conjecture up for themselves that ruin lives for others. They will not touch me ever, anymore, again, ever, never, ever, ever.

Secondly, I don't need to justify shit to your toff ass. Just let this last post of mine to you be to know that i'm the one in charge here, and if there is a bigoted God, God will obey Me.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Funny, that's exactly the kind of rigid, extremist, us vs them no room for gray kinda thinking that makes me dislike religious extremists to begin with.

Frankly I see very little difference between your words and their words. Both come down to "believe what I believe or you're the enemy".

Blame my Christ consciousness as Jesus did the same.

How did Jesus put it?

Brother against brother daughter against mother etc.

If you cannot see that adoring a genocidal god, or his homophobic and misogynous religion are not good at all, then for sure you are my enemy, whether you sit on the fence with a spiked plank shoved up your ass.

Jesus also said that you are not to sit on the fence and should be hot or cold to ideas. That takes maturity though.

So do you believe genocide and infanticide are good or evil?

How about the homophobia and misogyny we find in the mainstream religions. Good or evil?

Regards
DL