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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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i'm not a fan of armchair psychology.
It was a logical question, I'm not trying to "label" DJT (hell he might be more mentally healthy than me!), rather, I'm trying to figure out potential motivations in a human being for this degree of lying.

It should be noted he might be lying as a result of a bet between Putin and him that he "can't lie over 10,000 times in 8 years and get away with it"... or something. I don't know. That doesn't imply a mental disease or disorder, necessarily, and isn't armchair psychology... it's trying to make sense out of a person's motivations for lying to this degree or possible explanation (which delves into sociology, philosophy and what not)...

I do respect not wanting to "label" someone. I thought it was gross so many psychiatrists or psychologists were willing to go on national television and DIAGNOSE THE PRESIDENT, which would clearly be unprofessional and potentially against their Hippocratic Oath (telling someone indirectly, knowing Trump may very well hear it as he's a renowned mainstream news junkie and obsesses about what "the mainstream media say about him" in his own words many times those words or to that effect) to diagnose someone without any face to face contact in such a manner like that.

If I wanted to put a neutral or positive spin on it to explain away people who act like this but are not DJT I might say something like "he seems to be well-served by a superiority complex because he clearly has one, and clearly is the United States President, an accomplishment I'll likely never attain or ever be able to hope to attain, and something must have gotten him there and it's one of the few things I could attribute that isn't inherently negative". And again, since it seems to "serve him well" in my own words, that's not really a diagnosis nor a critique but just a point of observation I've had. (Since I've said much worse things about him totally unrepentant, I would hope you could see the neutral/impartial/potentially-positive way I'm trying to categorize his behavior)... and perhaps people with superiority complexes just happen to lie a lot, which can serve to buffer them to be continuously on top of the world in the way that is most important to them.

?

Most other interpretations on why one would lie, the kind of people known to lie, are less flattering admittedly and I don't think it's just that, but what do I know? I could be wrong. That's why I was disgusted with the people who label him "DEMENTIA, NARCISSIST" etc. on the news as mental health professionals. It's just totally shameful behavior.

If you do that after like, oh I don't know, Hitler or Stalin dies, maybe? But it's still like nothing I would be jumping with joy to do.
 
This should be the biggest case study in modern time of planetary response to legitimate fear. I think around 1 to possibly 10% of people infected will die, I may be included. Human kinds fear reaction will likely have much greater implications. Fear pushes our buttons like almost nothing else.
sorry but not even close, what you are calling out is the CFR case fatality rate based on a skewed sample, that is people who are diagnosed (diagnosed meaning doctor) the death rate following infection IFR is less than 1% probably a lot lower than 1 % somewhere around 0.1 to 0.2% at the maximum. As we get more data the estimate will get better and the numbers will drift lower like in all epidemics.

I am not being callous or ignoring the suffering. I care. but I want solutions not problems
 
I hope so nova, but based off the data I have access to that's what's presenting. What's not a skewed sample, is the exaggerated fear response. Sure its real, but given losing less then 1% or even 10% has no chance of taking that much out of society.. unless we freak out and do it to ourselves. Do what we can and hold each other up as we try and deal with it.
 
I hope so nova
It's not that you have to hope. You can know it.

People are getting loved ones with "probable covid-19" on the death certificate.

Not enough test kits, too new, some people will never know what the true cause of death is for one of their relatives.

You could also then wonder "how many people will die of covid-19 without any other pre-existing health conditions?" which becomes a harder question to find an answer for since hypertension, etc. tends to be not uncommon (perhaps not totally prevalent but not unheard of) in older people.

A lot of people think they're going to die, but did nothing different when diseases like HIV came around. People aren't afraid of TB even if it's a worse disease and a longer potentially asymptomatic period of time. People don't fear cardiovascular disease normally and it's for sure going to stay the #1 killer of people for some time to come. People know smoking cigarettes will shorten their life or impact quality of life/lung function, this doesn't stop them. People know alcoholism is going to kill them or can kill them before they make it half way to their life expectancy.

I'm noticing people are more scared of the novelty of covid-19 moreso than it just being a risk to their mortal lives.
 
On the one hand, I could ask 'how could anyone have expected or planned for this?'. On the other hand, I fully expect gov'ts around the world WILL expect and plan for this going forward.

They had several months to act, in which they did very little - not even ordering ventilators, testing kits or protective equipment. These were very simple steps that would have taken little effort or expense. Thus their failure neither warrants nor deserves any effort to justify or excuse it.
 
5e7b66eb0c2a6229f34da738



What's in the $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus bill

CNN | 25 Mar 2020

How the stimulus package will help those out of work.

Congressional lawmakers are putting the finishing touches on a $2 trillion stimulus bill to respond to the coronavirus pandemic, with cash and assistance for regular Americans, Main Street businesses and hard-hit airlines and manufacturers, among others.

CNN reporters are reading through the draft legislation. Here's a running list of highlights:

Direct payments to individuals

Under the plan as it was being negotiated, single Americans would receive $1,200, married couples would get $2,400 and parents would see $500 for each child under age 17.

However, the payments would start to phase out for individuals with adjusted gross incomes of more than $75,000, and those making more than $99,000 would not qualify at all. The thresholds are doubled for couples.

Student loan payments suspended

The Department of Education would suspend payments on student loan borrowers without penalty through September 30, according to the bill.

CNN reported last week that the Department of Education was planning to allow student loan borrowers to suspend payments without penalty and accruing interest for at least 60 days.

REAL ID deadline delayed

The deadline to obtain a REAL ID, federally mandated identification that will be needed for passengers to board aircraft, will be extended until at least September 2021 -- a year past the current deadline, according to a draft version of the Senate stimulus bill obtained by CNN.

Before the coronavirus pandemic swept across the US, states were preparing to issue residents "REAL ID-compliant" driver's licenses or identification by the October 1 deadline.

Historic boost for unemployment benefits

In an unprecedented expansion of unemployment insurance, the federal government would give jobless workers an extra $600 a week for four months on top of their state benefits, which range from $200 to $550 a week, on average, depending on the state.

In addition, lawmakers want to add up to 13 weeks of extended benefits, which would be fully covered by the federal government. Currently, state unemployment checks last up to between 12 weeks and 28 weeks, depending on the state.

Stimulus bill offers $600 a week to the unemployed for 4 months

Plus, the deal calls for a new pandemic unemployment assistance program, which would provide jobless benefits to those who are unemployed, partially unemployed or unable to work because of the virus and don't qualify for traditional benefits. This includes independent contractors and the self-employed, who typically don't qualify for such assistance, and to gig economy workers, who aren't eligible in many states. These benefits would mirror what's available in an individual's state.

https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fimageserve%2F1214337189%2F0x0.jpg

Cuomo slams $2 Trillion coronavirus stimulus bill, calling it ‘terrible’ for New York.


$500 billion lending program

The Treasury Department can provide $500 billion in loans, loan guarantees and investments.

That specifically includes $25 billion for passenger air carriers, $4 billion for cargo air carriers and $17 billion for businesses that work in national security. The rest of the funds, $454 billion, are given wide latitude to provide loans to businesses, states and municipalities.

The measure includes restrictions on businesses who receive the loans. Those businesses may not issue dividends for up to a year after the loan is no longer outstanding, and must retain 90% of employment levels as of March 24, "to the extent practicable," through September 30. The loans also cannot last longer than five years.

There's a specific provision in the program for direct loans to mid-sized businesses, defined as between 500 and 10,000 employees, as well as non-profit organizations, where no payments will be due for the first six months after the loan is issued.

A congressional oversight commission will monitor how the money is spent.

Trump businesses can't get money

The legislation prohibits federally elected officials and their immediate relatives from obtaining funds from the $500 billion program.

Businesses that are owned or partly owned by "the President, the Vice President, the head of an Executive department, or a Member of Congress; and the spouse, child, son-in-law, or daughter-in-law" will be barred. The provision applies to anyone with 20% or greater stake in a business.

Senate stimulus deal includes individual checks -- but don't expect the money until at least May

This was a key provision for Democrats concerned that Trump would provide funds to his personal businesses in the stimulus package.

No money for border wall

The Defense Department will get $1.2 billion for the National Guard's coronavirus response. Over 10,000 National Guard members to date have been activated.

An additional $1 billion is available for Defense Purchases Act purchases.

Notably, while the Pentagon will be allowed to transfer the money to other "applicable" accounts, it prohibits transferring the money to the counter-drug account, an account which has been used to fund Trump's border wall.

200325-coronavirus-deal-mc-901_0026244bcf82ba82e746caaa438bf17f.fit-760w.JPG



Airlines and airports get what they wanted

The package includes $32 billion in grants for wages and benefits to the decimated airline industry.

That includes $25 billion for passenger airlines, $4 billion for cargo airlines, and $3 billion for industry contractors, such as those who handle catering, baggage, ticketing, and aircraft cleaning.

In addition, another $25 billion for passenger airlines and $4 billion for cargo airlines will be available in the form of loans or loan guarantees.

Companies that receive the assistance are barred from making furloughs, pay cuts, or stock buybacks, and from issuing dividends to investors, through September. It also institutes limits on executive compensation.

Airlines may also be required to operate routes they would otherwise like to cancel because of low ridership or profitability. Under the bill, the Transportation Department can require air carriers continue service on routes, particularly for the "needs of small and remote communities and the need to maintain well-functioning health care and pharmaceutical supply chains, including for medical devices and supplies."

Contractors and 'gig' workers

Independent contractors and so-called gig workers will be eligible to receive federal aid. The language could provide additional certainty to millions of part-time workers who drive for Uber or deliver for Amazon, in what has become a major part of the digital economy.

The provisions are responsive to requests by tech execs including Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi, who this week wrote to Trump asking for economic support for Uber drivers.

"My goal in writing to you is not to ask for a bailout for Uber, but rather for support for independent contractors and, once we move past the immediate crisis, the opportunity to legally provide them with a real safety net going forward," Khosrowshahi wrote.

Gig economy businesses such as Uber have battled fiercely at the state level, especially in California, to avoid having to classify their drivers as employees who would be eligible for corporate benefits.

Protections against foreclosures and evictions

The bill includes housing protections against foreclosures on mortgages and evictions for renters.

The bill states that anyone facing a financial hardship from coronavirus shall be given a forbearance on a federally backed mortgage loan of up to 60 days, which can be extended for four periods of 30 days each. The legislation says that servicers of federally backed mortgage loans may not begin the foreclosure process for 60 days from March 18.

The bill also does not allow fees, penalties or additional interest to be charged as a result of delayed payments. It includes similar protections for those with multifamily federal mortgage loans, allowing them to receive a 30-day forbearance and up to two 30-day extensions.

Those with federally backed mortgage loans who have tenants would also not be allowed to evict tenants solely for failure to pay rent for a 120-day period, and they may not charge fees or penalties to tenants for failing to pay rent.

WNX6TF2RQZHVLLFV3Z7BUHFECY.jpg



$25 million for the Kennedy Center

The bill contains $25 million to support the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, DC.

A Democratic aide familiar with the negotiations said the funding has bipartisan support.

"This is a federal agency that is funded by a mixture of appropriations and ticket revenues. They've had to cancel all their performances, so they have no revenue and have already laid off nearly 800 people. If they don't get a cash infusion, they will become insolvent and could be unable to reopen," the aide said.

The Kennedy Center closed on March 17 and does not plan to reopen until at least May 10.

The stimulus package also includes $75 million for the National Endowment for the Arts, a federal program that Trump has tried to cut from his budget proposals for the past four years and that in a Republican-led Congress already has seen its budget dwindle by several million dollars.

More funding for food assistance

The bill provides $450 million for The Emergency Food Assistance Program, which supplies food banks, which are expected to see more clients as job losses mount. Some $350 million would buy additional food, and $100 million would be used for distribution.

The package also provides $200 million for food assistance for Puerto Rico and other US territories, as well as $100 million for food distribution on American Indian reservations.

While it appears that the bill provides billions in additional funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps) and Child Nutrition Program, it would not expand eligibility or benefits.

Evacuations of Americans

The bill includes $324 million for the State Department, as well as money specifically for "evacuation expenses," according to a draft obtained by CNN. The proposed legislation doesn't specify who would be evacuated, whether it's US diplomats or American citizens living overseas, or potentially both.

A senior State Department official said that 9,300 Americans had already been repatriated. A different senior State Department official said the government was tracking 13,500 Americans seeking assistance abroad.

Peace Corps, diplomatic programs and refugees

The bill includes $88 million for the Peace Corps, an independent US government agency that sends American volunteers abroad. The organization suspended all operations last week and evacuated its volunteers. Its director said "operations will return to normal when conditions permit."

In addition, the measure provides an additional $324 million for diplomatic programs, $258 million for international disaster assistance, $350 million for migration and refugee assistance and $95 million for USAID operating expenses.

It also authorizes the agencies to administer oaths of office remotely, but they must submit a report to the relevant committees "describing the process and procedures for administering such oaths, including appropriate verification."

 
This is pretty impressive:

More than 500,000 volunteers have signed up to support the NHS in helping vulnerable people who have been told not to leave their homes during the coronavirus crisis.

Nearly five people per second enlisted in the government’s new volunteering scheme in the hours after the health secretary, Matt Hancock, launched a call on Tuesday for 250,000 people in England to help bolster the NHS response to the Covid-19 pandemic.


 
5e7b66eb0c2a6229f34da738



What's in the $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus bill

CNN | 25 Mar 2020

How the stimulus package will help those out of work.

Congressional lawmakers are putting the finishing touches on a $2 trillion stimulus bill to respond to the coronavirus pandemic, with cash and assistance for regular Americans, Main Street businesses and hard-hit airlines and manufacturers, among others.

CNN reporters are reading through the draft legislation. Here's a running list of highlights:

Direct payments to individuals

Under the plan as it was being negotiated, single Americans would receive $1,200, married couples would get $2,400 and parents would see $500 for each child under age 17.

However, the payments would start to phase out for individuals with adjusted gross incomes of more than $75,000, and those making more than $99,000 would not qualify at all. The thresholds are doubled for couples.

Student loan payments suspended

The Department of Education would suspend payments on student loan borrowers without penalty through September 30, according to the bill.

CNN reported last week that the Department of Education was planning to allow student loan borrowers to suspend payments without penalty and accruing interest for at least 60 days.

REAL ID deadline delayed

The deadline to obtain a REAL ID, federally mandated identification that will be needed for passengers to board aircraft, will be extended until at least September 2021 -- a year past the current deadline, according to a draft version of the Senate stimulus bill obtained by CNN.

Before the coronavirus pandemic swept across the US, states were preparing to issue residents "REAL ID-compliant" driver's licenses or identification by the October 1 deadline.

Historic boost for unemployment benefits

In an unprecedented expansion of unemployment insurance, the federal government would give jobless workers an extra $600 a week for four months on top of their state benefits, which range from $200 to $550 a week, on average, depending on the state.

In addition, lawmakers want to add up to 13 weeks of extended benefits, which would be fully covered by the federal government. Currently, state unemployment checks last up to between 12 weeks and 28 weeks, depending on the state.

Stimulus bill offers $600 a week to the unemployed for 4 months

Plus, the deal calls for a new pandemic unemployment assistance program, which would provide jobless benefits to those who are unemployed, partially unemployed or unable to work because of the virus and don't qualify for traditional benefits. This includes independent contractors and the self-employed, who typically don't qualify for such assistance, and to gig economy workers, who aren't eligible in many states. These benefits would mirror what's available in an individual's state.

https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fimageserve%2F1214337189%2F0x0.jpg

Cuomo slams $2 Trillion coronavirus stimulus bill, calling it ‘terrible’ for New York.


$500 billion lending program

The Treasury Department can provide $500 billion in loans, loan guarantees and investments.

That specifically includes $25 billion for passenger air carriers, $4 billion for cargo air carriers and $17 billion for businesses that work in national security. The rest of the funds, $454 billion, are given wide latitude to provide loans to businesses, states and municipalities.

The measure includes restrictions on businesses who receive the loans. Those businesses may not issue dividends for up to a year after the loan is no longer outstanding, and must retain 90% of employment levels as of March 24, "to the extent practicable," through September 30. The loans also cannot last longer than five years.

There's a specific provision in the program for direct loans to mid-sized businesses, defined as between 500 and 10,000 employees, as well as non-profit organizations, where no payments will be due for the first six months after the loan is issued.

A congressional oversight commission will monitor how the money is spent.

Trump businesses can't get money

The legislation prohibits federally elected officials and their immediate relatives from obtaining funds from the $500 billion program.

Businesses that are owned or partly owned by "the President, the Vice President, the head of an Executive department, or a Member of Congress; and the spouse, child, son-in-law, or daughter-in-law" will be barred. The provision applies to anyone with 20% or greater stake in a business.

Senate stimulus deal includes individual checks -- but don't expect the money until at least May

This was a key provision for Democrats concerned that Trump would provide funds to his personal businesses in the stimulus package.

No money for border wall

The Defense Department will get $1.2 billion for the National Guard's coronavirus response. Over 10,000 National Guard members to date have been activated.

An additional $1 billion is available for Defense Purchases Act purchases.

Notably, while the Pentagon will be allowed to transfer the money to other "applicable" accounts, it prohibits transferring the money to the counter-drug account, an account which has been used to fund Trump's border wall.

200325-coronavirus-deal-mc-901_0026244bcf82ba82e746caaa438bf17f.fit-760w.JPG



Airlines and airports get what they wanted

The package includes $32 billion in grants for wages and benefits to the decimated airline industry.

That includes $25 billion for passenger airlines, $4 billion for cargo airlines, and $3 billion for industry contractors, such as those who handle catering, baggage, ticketing, and aircraft cleaning.

In addition, another $25 billion for passenger airlines and $4 billion for cargo airlines will be available in the form of loans or loan guarantees.

Companies that receive the assistance are barred from making furloughs, pay cuts, or stock buybacks, and from issuing dividends to investors, through September. It also institutes limits on executive compensation.

Airlines may also be required to operate routes they would otherwise like to cancel because of low ridership or profitability. Under the bill, the Transportation Department can require air carriers continue service on routes, particularly for the "needs of small and remote communities and the need to maintain well-functioning health care and pharmaceutical supply chains, including for medical devices and supplies."

Contractors and 'gig' workers

Independent contractors and so-called gig workers will be eligible to receive federal aid. The language could provide additional certainty to millions of part-time workers who drive for Uber or deliver for Amazon, in what has become a major part of the digital economy.

The provisions are responsive to requests by tech execs including Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi, who this week wrote to Trump asking for economic support for Uber drivers.

"My goal in writing to you is not to ask for a bailout for Uber, but rather for support for independent contractors and, once we move past the immediate crisis, the opportunity to legally provide them with a real safety net going forward," Khosrowshahi wrote.

Gig economy businesses such as Uber have battled fiercely at the state level, especially in California, to avoid having to classify their drivers as employees who would be eligible for corporate benefits.

Protections against foreclosures and evictions

The bill includes housing protections against foreclosures on mortgages and evictions for renters.

The bill states that anyone facing a financial hardship from coronavirus shall be given a forbearance on a federally backed mortgage loan of up to 60 days, which can be extended for four periods of 30 days each. The legislation says that servicers of federally backed mortgage loans may not begin the foreclosure process for 60 days from March 18.

The bill also does not allow fees, penalties or additional interest to be charged as a result of delayed payments. It includes similar protections for those with multifamily federal mortgage loans, allowing them to receive a 30-day forbearance and up to two 30-day extensions.

Those with federally backed mortgage loans who have tenants would also not be allowed to evict tenants solely for failure to pay rent for a 120-day period, and they may not charge fees or penalties to tenants for failing to pay rent.

WNX6TF2RQZHVLLFV3Z7BUHFECY.jpg



$25 million for the Kennedy Center

The bill contains $25 million to support the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, DC.

A Democratic aide familiar with the negotiations said the funding has bipartisan support.

"This is a federal agency that is funded by a mixture of appropriations and ticket revenues. They've had to cancel all their performances, so they have no revenue and have already laid off nearly 800 people. If they don't get a cash infusion, they will become insolvent and could be unable to reopen," the aide said.

The Kennedy Center closed on March 17 and does not plan to reopen until at least May 10.

The stimulus package also includes $75 million for the National Endowment for the Arts, a federal program that Trump has tried to cut from his budget proposals for the past four years and that in a Republican-led Congress already has seen its budget dwindle by several million dollars.

More funding for food assistance

The bill provides $450 million for The Emergency Food Assistance Program, which supplies food banks, which are expected to see more clients as job losses mount. Some $350 million would buy additional food, and $100 million would be used for distribution.

The package also provides $200 million for food assistance for Puerto Rico and other US territories, as well as $100 million for food distribution on American Indian reservations.

While it appears that the bill provides billions in additional funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps) and Child Nutrition Program, it would not expand eligibility or benefits.

One big thing, that I'm not seeing here (though it might be part of it that's just not clearly spelt out), is protecting the banks. Probably the biggest danger (financially) is the banks collapsing. And the way to prevent that is to either put in withdrawal limits, or for the government to promise to safeguard a certain amount in every account.

Really the point is just to get people to not think the banks are collapsing, and so keep them from going out, taking out their money, and thereby cause the banks to collapse.

Evacuations of Americans

The bill includes $324 million for the State Department, as well as money specifically for "evacuation expenses," according to a draft obtained by CNN. The proposed legislation doesn't specify who would be evacuated, whether it's US diplomats or American citizens living overseas, or potentially both.

I find it slightly amusing that I'm a citizen of two countries and both are telling their citizens to return home immediately. :p

I mean obviously it's directed at people only temporally abroad and not people with permanent residencies or dual citizenships. But I still find it a little funny.
 
They had several months to act, in which they did very little - not even ordering ventilators, testing kits or protective equipment. These were very simple steps that would have taken little effort or expense. Thus their failure neither warrants nor deserves any effort to justify or excuse it.
indeed.
remember ventilators don't work without trained and skilled staff, without oxygen supplies without electricity without monitoring equipment all of which has to work properly otherwise it a complete waste of effort

Testing kits are limited by the availability of components and reagents, China shipping is pretty screwed at the moment, loss of passenger airliners has seriously hit airfreight, so I everyone wants to make a difference do not order useless plastic shit from China for a couple of weeks to let the backlog clear. That actually may end up saving your life and other peoples lives whether you or they have corona or not.

The governments have not listened to the pragmatic scientists they have listened to the shrill cries of the more extreme elements with their useless models, rubbish in rubbish out. The world is not a model. The coronavirus is not at war with humanity, it just is doing its thing. You cannot fight the wind no matter how patriotic and full of flag waving bullshit your rhetoric is. What you can do is make huge efforts not break absolutely everything in a war on an inanimate object.

this is a good quote,
there is a very good example that we all forget: the swine flu in 2009. That was a virus that reached the world from Mexico and until today there is no vaccination against it. But what? At that time there was no Facebook or there maybe was but it was still in its infancy. The coronavirus, in contrast, is a virus with public relations.

Whoever thinks that governments end viruses is wrong.
Yoram Lass senior Israeli doctor and academic
 
I don't know about that CH
480,000 Americans die from cigarettes every year


And there aren't even 1,000 covid-19 American deaths...

Cigarettes = legal...
Covid-19 = WE'RE FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST THE VIRUS.

If they want to curtail some civil liberties to save lives, I get it, but that's not what this is about. Not by a long shot.

Why don't we shut down all the fast food businesses, make people eat healthy, ban tobacco production/use, enforce strict measures to prevent hypertension and diseases more likely to lead to a covid-19 death for an individual... because this isn't about saving lives. It is about creating a police state.

One where we're all perfectly safe to commit suicide quickly via GUNS, or slowly via alcohol and tobacco. Show me where I sign up!!!

In 2017, gun deaths reached their highest level since 1968 with 39,773 deaths by firearm, of which 23,854 were by suicide and 14,542 were homicides.

I'm so glad guns in 2017 killed more people than covid-19 (literally break that number down per day...) oh let's do the math, shall we... JUST the homicides, for the sake of LOLZ...

14542/12 = 1,211.8... deaths per month

Oh, so GUNS KILL MORE PEOPLE PER DAY THAN COVID-19?

This is not about saving lives. How about cigarette deaths?

480000/12 = 40,000 deaths per month

This is not about saving lives.

This is getting so, so fucking stupid.

300,000 deaths per year due to obesity (instead of rationing out food people get to horde so this problem WILL NOT go away, and people like me don't give a fuck / know it's wrong to horde food... LOL I love it, and with everything shut down people won't burn calories, slower metabolism)...

how do these numbers compare to flu deaths in previous years? So far, it looks like the 2019-2020 death toll won’t be as high as it was in the 2017-2018 season, when 61,000 deaths were linked to the virus. However, it could equal or surpass the 2018-2019 season's 34,200 flu-related deaths.

NO REQUIREMENT TO GET THE FLU SHOT LOL people get to come up with all sorts of psychological nonsense to AVOID the needle THEY ARE SO AFRAID OF.

I hope they make the covid 19 and flu shots legally mandatory so I can enjoy the sounds of people freaking out from needle phobia.


...oh and it'll save lives, too... :|

I'm not an anti-vaxxer but what happened to our god damn civil rights? They didn't curtail them to save lives. They did it to save the economy, so that the rich don't have to pay for the poor to ride this out over 18 months, so that we can "GO BACK TO WORK" as our slave driver in chief Trump wants us to be around Easter time THIS YEAR.

I KNOW WHY DON'T WE JUST LEGALIZE CHILD LABOR? LOL

What other INSANE BULLSHIT THAT DOESN'T WORK will they think of next? How about the... JUST SAY NO campaign? DARE classes? Drug prohibition?

This isn't about saving lives. It's about keeping TrumpTrain™ going for four more years.

"...but the hospitals will be overwhelmed..." yeah they had that problem with socialized medicine + legal immigration in the UK. People aren't going to become doctors overnight and we're not RUSHING TO BUILD NEW MEGA-HOSPITALS/QUARANTINE CENTERS like other nations... this isn't about saving lives.

It's about keeping the wealthy class wealthy and making the rest of us poor. The Feds are prepared to print up money and dole it out to us if AND when congress fails on a bailout; and if a bailout comes I don't think it's going to work. Most people will horde the money, pay off bills (The national average for American household debt is $137,063) .... and they think $1,200 to $2,000 will work... :ROFLMAO:

Me and one other person I know are GOING to pay off a debt and $1-2k isn't going to cover shit, really. If you think you're in debt... you're probably just a little in debt. Most Americans will be responsible and not irresponsible with their money if they're just given a 1x lump sum like this. I might be the only person actually planning on immediately spending it that I've talked to; others: "save it", "pay off bills", "pay rent" (which does not circulate into the stock market... show me Landlords Inc. on the DJI, please...)

This will lead the Feds to BUY STOCK WITH FAKE CASH THEY KEEP PRINTING UP. The price of goods will skyrocket to match the inflation. This is basic economics and Trump knows he fucked up big time by not shutting the ports of entry and borders down at just the right time. The national deficit (something HRC addressed reasonably and no one else wants to... no one...) can only go up.

The Feds will do anything, anything they can in their power to keep sucking profit margins off giving us this fake fiat currency which won't last forever.

Endgame: an IOU note that doesn't have a fake number written on it, but "IOU nothing suckers!" would work better, because then at least the people would know the Feds made off with all their money over the years with nothing to show for it but wealth inequality, hyperinflation and societal collapse. And what's the end-game of all this, so we can go to work after this vaccine comes out TO PAY OFF THE NATIONAL DEFICIT? Do you think that will EVER happen, now, at this rate? Nope.

The game is over, the Feds know it and are planning a fancy exit strategy to save their own heads, I am sure. People are going to be pissed.

Many outlets are criticizing, logically and intelligently, what the Feds are planning on doing to keep THEMSELVES, NOT YOU afloat.

If this was about saving lives the corona virus bail out money wouldn't go to you, nor me, it would go to pharmacological investigations in treating / preventing covid-19, not to bail out the POOR, LITTLE OLD DOW JONES INDEX... you might think it's a person MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY AMERICAN OR ANY PERSON ALIVE. It's not. It's the stock market. Covid-19 patients don't need the Down Jones Index to be at 30,000 to survive covid-19. They need treatment, a cure... antiviral drugs... this isn't about saving lives. It's about saving MAGA, the 30k DJI, the poor rich people who might jump out of tall Wall St. buildings because they went from "rich" to "broke" overnight... this is who Trump is concerned will commit suicide. Not unemployed/furloughed workers unable to feed/shelter themselves. This is about saving the wealthy upper class of the world. They do not want to contribute to society, don't have to, know it and will do anything to keep wealth inequality going the way it was.

I've even said I believe in wealth inequality; please read what I'm saying very carefully.

"Captain that's ridiculous, because I heard having hundreds of thousands of dollars as a rich person IS THE PREVENTION METHOD for covid-19!"

Being rich isn't going to save you forever unless you have enough money to retire, forever, and account for ANY AND ALL HYPERINFLATION.

Don't think anyone is that rich unless they have treasury inflation-protected securities. I'm guessing most of us DON'T.

And what happens when, like at the end of WWI in Germany, a loaf of bread costs a shit ton of money? Has anyone thought of this?

They talk about flattening the curve. They're really talking the inverted curve (a dip) in the DJI, not the actual death toll or infection rate of poor people that weren't contributing anyways, and certainly weren't going to vote for TRUMP TRAIN.

The Republican bailout was designed so Republican senators/congressmen can get re-elected. The Democratic bailout was designed so Democratic senators/congressmen can get re-elected.

Four senators sold stocks shortly after a January briefing in the Senate on the novel coronavirus outbreak, unloading shares that plummeted in value a month later as the stock market crashed in the face of a global pandemic.

According to financial disclosure forms, Sens. Kelly Loeffler (R-Ga.), James Inhofe (R-Okla.), Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Richard Burr (R-N.C.) each sold hundreds of thousands of dollars in stocks within days of the Senate holding a classified briefing on Jan. 24 with Trump administration officials on the threat of the coronavirus outbreak.

The sales raise questions about whether the senators violated the STOCK Act, a law that bans members of Congress from making financial trades based on nonpublic information.

I'm so glad we trust these IDIOTS. Notice PELOSI. Democrat? Surprised? Don't be. Rich people do not care who lives or dies they want to have their cake and eat it too off the backs of the bruised.

Do you think Pelosi donated all her stock profit $ to SAVE THE COVID-19 PATIENTS? Nope. Do you think they can legally MAKE her? She'll probably flee the country, she's not Martha Stewart with an image and name brand to protect...
 
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440,000 Americans die from cigarettes every year


And there aren't even 1,000 dead covid-19 American deaths...

Cigarettes = legal...
Covid-19 = WE'RE FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST THE VIRUS.

If they want to curtail some civil liberties to save lives, I get it, but that's not what this is about. Not by a long shot.

Covid 19 could kill a lot more than 440,000. And more to the point, we don't already have the capacity ready for that number.

You can't just suddenly add a huge number more patients into a system that doesn't have the capacity for them. It's very different.

Ugh, sorry I don't wanna snap at you but it's just so frustrating. I keep seeing these faulty metaphors.

Potentially over a million deaths in the US alone, that's what we're looking at if appropriate action isn't taken.

It's like looking at a nuclear bomb about to wipe out an entire country in 1 week if it's not stopped, and having people go "Pfft, is hadn't even killed anyone yet, and even if it does all those people would have eventually died anyway". It's just a bad argument.

IF covid 19 were going to spread over the course of the next 10 years. Then yeah it'd be a very different situation. But it isn't, it will get much worse, very soon, and the societies that didn't act will pay a steep price for it.
 
Oh and worst still.... Do people just have no memory?

First it was "meh, it's barely killed anyone,the flu kills way more".

Then it's "meh, its only killed a few hundred, that's nothing".

Now it's "meh, its only killed a few thousand, that's nothing".

Next it'll be "meh, it's only killed a hundred thousand"

Until eventually it'll be "wow... It killed over a million just here in the US... people I know have lost people... If only we could have know this might happen!"
 
On the one hand, I could ask 'how could anyone have expected or planned for this?'. On the other hand, I fully expect gov'ts around the world WILL expect and plan for this going forward.

I knew about the food shortages and these are nothing compared to what's to come. You all either grow your own food now or you starve. Could be 1-2 years of pushing it out but it could happen sooner. This overhyped virus has accelerated a lot of their plans. Governments don't give a fuck about us, if they did we'd all be aware and preparing instead of sitting around clueless petrified of a virus that's killing less people than the flu.

So yeah don't be someone starving in a year or two asking how you could've planned for it.
 
Oh and worst still.... Do people just have no memory?

First it was "meh, it's barely killed anyone,the flu kills way more".

To date, it's killed much less. Much less than other preventable causes of death which society accepts as normal.

Now it's "meh, its only killed a few thousand, that's nothing".

Next it'll be "meh, it's only killed a hundred thousand"

Until eventually it'll be "wow... It killed over a million just here in the US... people I know have lost people... If only we could have know this might happen!"

Or not. It could pass with less medical impact than the flu. Or, we could develop a vaccine/cure. Still too early to predict it will kill 'a hundred thousand' or more.

We can't say the potential 'nuclear bomb' does not remain a possibility. But we can't say it's a certainty either. Everything we try to predict at this point remains built upon transient flimsy data. It won't be for a few months until we actually have decent data for projection. By then, it may change, or have already exploded. We simply don't know.
 
I think it will likely mutate into something weaker. I have no idea how long it'll take but what I said was 110% true about the US plans taking too long and I'm not the only one who thought so.....

14:10 GMT - Germany aims to speed up virus diagnosis, treatment
The German Ministry of Education and university hospitals have come together to share knowledge about the new coronavirus and advance new strategies for diagnosis and treatment of COVID-19.

The alliance aims to carry out work on tests, drugs and a possible vaccine. The initiative is based on a proposal by Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Germany has increased its ability to test for the new coronavirus to 500,000 a week.

ftr. link

Am hoping perhaps this sense of urgency coming from people who did the math on this and thought out potential end-games realized that a little money at the problem now will go a long way...

...also am feeling much better, am thinking perhaps just "a regular flu" is what I had and if I really get covid (i.e. if i never had it and it really fucks me up) I'll be glad not to have gotten both @ the same time... or whatever. I'm sure that could be terrible. Hope you guys are healthy happy and staying well <3
 
We have more than enough data at this point to see the potential number of lives lost.

You only need to look at what's happening in other places and extrapolate.

The only way this doesn't end with millions dead, is if either the mortality rate is somehow a fraction of even some of the most optimistic assumptions. Or if preventative action is taken.

Relying on the former is criminally irresponsible. To use the nuke metaphor, it's like saying "well we don't know for sure that the nuke isn't a dud". It's technically true but relying on it is unthinkable.
 
Or not. It could pass with less medical impact than the flu. Or, we could develop a vaccine/cure. Still too early to predict it will kill 'a hundred thousand' or more.
I don't think there will be any feasible way to innoculate 8 billion people in tandem... considering if you have viruses such as this the vaccine "doesn't work as well" (what is said about having the flu and getting the vaccine "too late" or whatever)... and what not... so if they get sick (and are naturally going to assume if not educated about the virus that "the vaccine gave them the covid" esp if already anti-vaxxers :|) and be less likely to get vaccine #2 or won't report symptoms, under report? Young-enough people may not notice mild-ish symptoms? Are we going to have to innoculate everyone twice for this to work? I am thinking this might be wiser but I'm sure there's people already thinking of it.
 
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