Do you think you reach a point of drug use where no substances are enjoyable anymore?

[Rio Fantastic]

Unfortunately, I got paid and was able to obtain it again. But for me, it definitely seems to be more of a habit than a physical dependence. How is this possible? I fulfill all the criteria of an alcoholic but seem to suffer no withdrawal. Is it a case that the more psychologically addicted you are, the worse your physical withdrawal? And if you dont really like the shit that much, it doesn't get such a grip on you?

The physical withdrawal isn't that intertwined with the psychological. You can take someone who hates drinking and force them to consume as much vodka as they possibly can every day for 6 months, and even though they may hate the experience every single day they will still get withdrawals at the end of it, it just so happens that physical & psychological dependence usually come together because people don't usually drink the amount necessary or with enough consistency to develop the physical dependence unless they get psychologically dependent first. The implication of that connection that you're suggesting would be that you can overcome physical alcohol withdrawal just by changing your thinking about alcohol, and that's simply not true. A lot of people underestimate just how long it takes to become physically dependent on alcohol - it takes far, far longer to get your first bout of alcohol withdrawal with daily drinking than it takes to get your first heroin withdrawal after daily use, for example. People can drink every single day for months but because of either genetics or because of the relatively low amount they're drinking (relative to alcoholics) they can stop without a single physical symptom at all. Unfortunately, this often lulls people into a false sense of security, making them think that it's easy to quit alcohol and then going back to drinking enthusiastically without thinking of the consequences of stopping, and then one day they run out or go broke and are surprised by their first physical withdrawals that they're entirely unprepared for.

And of course, after that first alcohol withdrawal it will all change. You won't be able to drink with impunity anymore - a couple weeks of drinking will be all it takes to get withdrawal again, and thanks to the magic of kindling it will take less & less alcohol for shorter periods of time to get withdrawals, which will simultaneously get worse & worse every time. If you head on over to reddit and go to the "crippling alcoholics" subreddit you will find plenty of people that have gone through kindling that now only need to drink for a single day to get withdrawals. If I were you I would take a look over there and then make sure that you stay in the situation you're in now by taking regular breaks, ensuring that you never cross that line into physical dependency, because once you've crossed over you can never go back to enjoying lengthy periods of extended drinking without the consequence of dependency & withdrawals, as you can now and will continue to be able to do if you're careful.

Can I ask why you replaced opioids with alcohol? I know that initially it probably wasn't a conscious choice, but why now would you rather drink daily than go back to opiates?? As a heroin addict I just can't really imagine why, especially after you admit yourself that you actually prefer opiates with alcohol being a poor substitute. Since alcohol is so much more toxic, why is it your drug of choice??

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Adderall never stops feeling good to me. I assume it never will.

However, anything else sucks now and is a snoozefest. I also think the psychological aspect of "pleasure drugs" becomes boring once you're so adjusted to just sitting in a chair waiting for effects while staring at a screen.

How long have you been on adderall? Amphetamines are very well known for being particularly susceptible to tolerance and loss of euphoria - second only really to MDMA in their propensity to that. Though they never stop being functional unless you really abuse the fuck out of them to the point where you get psychotic every time you pop one (and I've read that they never lose their efficacy in treating ADHD), many, many people certainly lose the euphoria from them that becomes very difficult to get back. If you really enjoy amphetamines, then if I were you I'd preserve the high you get from them by taking regular tolerance breaks so that you don't push it too far and wreck it for yourself with tolerance. I have also heard that NMDA antagonists like DXM or Memantine can prevent tolerance from forming and can even reverse it once it's started, so if I were you I'd start taking a low dose of DXM with the adderall as soon as possible so that you don't get more tolerance than you already have. The more time you spend off Adderall the better your chance of keeping your tolerance where it's at or even dropping it down - spending more time off of it than on it would be best. I don't know what level of use would be realistic for your situation - if it was me I'd just use it 1-2 times a week - but some breaks are better than none, even if it's just a day or two a week. I have heard of people doing 2 days on, 3 days off to prevent tolerance - would that be feasible for you?

Whichever break pattern you choose, the important thing would be for you to implement it immediately. If you value the high you get from Adderall, then if I were you I would immediately start taking regular breaks and then when you do take the Adderall take a low dose of DXM with it every time you dose. If you put these precautions in place now you have a better chance of preserving the high you get from it - if you stay complacent and assume you will always get euphoria and don't do this, then you will really regret it when your tolerance increases and you find it impossible to get any euphoria out of it at all.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Can I ask why you replaced opioids with alcohol? I know that initially it probably wasn't a conscious choice, but why now would you rather drink daily than go back to opiates?? As a heroin addict I just can't really imagine why, especially after you admit yourself that you actually prefer opiates with alcohol being a poor substitute. Since alcohol is so much more toxic, why is it your drug of choice??

As you say, it wasnt a conscious decision, more of a need to fill the void left by opiates. Unfortunately, alcohol is much more freely available, cheaper and socially acceptable than heroin, so going back is not an option. Booze is far from my drug of choice, but it's there....

 

[Iceman1216]

Some years ago i was drinking about 180ml of gin everything night, worst of it being, all in one drink (consumed perhaps over the course of 30 minutes, mixed with soda water). Thats like drinking 8 beers in 30 minutes, which combined with all the stuff i was taking, would sometimes in a staggering drunk state, where I'd cook drunk, cut myself in the process, knock things over.

I did this for about 1.5 years, the all of a sudden decided to quit cold turkey. I had been smoking methamphetamine with a friend and all of a sudden had a realize: I need to stop drinking. I told my friend that I was quitting drinking that night, who of course didn't believe me having seen me get drunk every night. I stopped immediately however and expected alcohol withdrawal. There wasn't any noticeable physical withdrawal whatsoever. I didn't drink for 2 years after that.

I need to significantly reduce my drinking now, some of it is a boredom thing, or a something to do with my hands (ive switched to light beer recently).

It might actually be easier to drink not at all than to drink less, at least for me.

That is all I can do with Alcohol!! One is Always too Many..And 1,000 is never enough!! The first drink throws a switch in my mind and Body that Boy this is Really Great so MORE will be Better!! and I drink everything in the house ( even Vanilla Extract )

 

[Iceman1216]

I know exactly what you mean. I've been drinking heavily since stopping heroin 10 years ago (classic substitution thing). My tolerance for alcohol is through the roof and I'm ashamed to say I can easily drink up to a litre of vodka daily. The thing is, I dont really like it, its just something to fill in the spaces between more enjoyable drugs. A couple of weeks ago, I was on my arse. No cash and no way of getting any. So I had to go without booze. I went 7 days with absolutely no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. In fact, I felt better than I would have done if I'd been drinking.

Unfortunately, I got paid and was able to obtain it again. But for me, it definitely seems to be more of a habit than a physical dependence. How is this possible? I fulfill all the criteria of an alcoholic but seem to suffer no withdrawal. Is it a case that the more psychologically addicted you are, the worse your physical withdrawal? And if you don't really like the shit that much, it doesn't get such a grip on you?

@F.U.B.A.R. I have been an Alcoholic since birth, ( Disease of addiction, and that is my drug of choice) Withdrawals is not a symptom for all people, Real alcoholics are unfortnitly Built and wired to Do Drunk real well!!
I was told years ago ( 40+) that if you stop drinking and you feel better, and your life gets better you are an Alcoholic?? that has proven True to me
All is Well - Ice

 

[Jopeth]

So where do we figure out the line between being addicted to a drug, and being a drug addict? I myself have been addicted to a couple different substances, both physically and psychologically (but only one at a time, accept for nicotine before I quit that). But ive also met a couple people who are totally psychologically addicted to say cocaine, or nicotine or codeine.....Something very specific, like they are wired to love that one chemical. They couldn't substitute and get addicted to a different substance, or class of substance if they tried. Personally, I am a drug addict, being physically dependent on this chemical, or that chemical, or nothing at all, at whatever time in my life; but the entire time ive been psychologically addicted to "doing drugs"

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

As you say, it wasnt a conscious decision, more of a need to fill the void left by opiates. Unfortunately, alcohol is much more freely available, cheaper and socially acceptable than heroin, so going back is not an option. Booze is far from my drug of choice, but it's there....

We are sitting in the same leaky as fuck terrible boat my friend.

 

[Jopeth]

We are sitting in the same leaky as fuck terrible boat my friend.

Same here friends, but im finally doing much better these days. For whatever reason alcohol began feeling bad. I would get hangover easy, or just a headache from 3 beers, which is both good, and really really sucks. I love drinking, but it doesn't make me feel good anymore, and I imagine that its because alcohol is terrible for you, so my body was telling me to stop. If I didn't do any damage id be surprised, but now a days im able to have a couple drinks in company at the resturaunt I work at with company now and that's it. No night caps, no drinks by myself while reading, or beers before dinner. The "high" that I get from not drinking feels immensely better than being drunk. Its amazing how much better a bj from the gf and a good nights sleep feel, compared to something that just makes me feel shitty, but just inebriated enough to not care.

What do you call inebriation that is intoxication, but not recreation?

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

Same here friends, but im finally doing much better these days. For whatever reason alcohol began feeling bad. I would get hangover easy, or just a headache from 3 beers, which is both good, and really really sucks. I love drinking, but it doesn't make me feel good anymore, and I imagine that its because alcohol is terrible for you, so my body was telling me to stop. If I didn't do any damage id be surprised, but now a days im able to have a couple drinks in company at the resturaunt I work at with company now and that's it. No night caps, no drinks by myself while reading, or beers before dinner. The "high" that I get from not drinking feels immensely better than being drunk. Its amazing how much better a bj from the gf and a good nights sleep feel, compared to something that just makes me feel shitty, but just inebriated enough to not care.

What do you call inebriation that is intoxication, but not recreation?

I feel like shit almost everytime I drink now and on top of that I think I gave myself pancreatitis not long ago. If I drink 2 glasses of whiskey I'll get a shitty feeling two hours later, and lately 3 glasses makes me feel like someone is stabbing me and twisting a knife in my lower left side. Today it got bad after just 2 small shots so I'm pouring the shit down the drain. I never learn . Just too loud in my own head and unhappy with sober life.

 

[JessFR]

So where do we figure out the line between being addicted to a drug, and being a drug addict? I myself have been addicted to a couple different substances, both physically and psychologically (but only one at a time, accept for nicotine before I quit that). But ive also met a couple people who are totally psychologically addicted to say cocaine, or nicotine or codeine.....Something very specific, like they are wired to love that one chemical. They couldn't substitute and get addicted to a different substance, or class of substance if they tried. Personally, I am a drug addict, being physically dependent on this chemical, or that chemical, or nothing at all, at whatever time in my life; but the entire time ive been psychologically addicted to "doing drugs"

At the risk of getting into pedantics, id say there is no difference. If you're addicted to a drug you're a drug addict. Just being dependent on a drug doesn't mean you're a drug addict, but being addicted to it does.

And what makes you addicted? Well, I'd say if you find yourself unable to control your use even without dependence for a prolonged period, you're probably addicted.

 

[Jopeth]

its a fascinating topic! A humans propensity to do things continually that are against our own good lol.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So where do we figure out the line between being addicted to a drug, and being a drug addict? I myself have been addicted to a couple different substances, both physically and psychologically (but only one at a time, accept for nicotine before I quit that). But ive also met a couple people who are totally psychologically addicted to say cocaine, or nicotine or codeine.....Something very specific, like they are wired to love that one chemical. They couldn't substitute and get addicted to a different substance, or class of substance if they tried. Personally, I am a drug addict, being physically dependent on this chemical, or that chemical, or nothing at all, at whatever time in my life; but the entire time ive been psychologically addicted to "doing drugs"

I used to be into getting wasted on anything but but once I started amps regularly I found no pleasure in any other kind of drug, not even alcohol. Even when i was not using amps at abuse levels and just taking ADHD meds I had no interest in any other substances. Besides benzos purely for sleep I could not imagine taking any other drug. My psychiatrist says this is common for his patients on stims - they just have no desire for other things anymore.

although lots of people are polydrug users i reckon there are some whose brains are just wired for one class of drug.

I’ve met other people who take lowish levels of amps cause they believe it helps reduce their opiate or alcohol intake. Although “lowish” tends to fluctuate towards “highish” from time to time for most of them.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

How long have you been on adderall? Amphetamines are very well known for being particularly susceptible to tolerance and loss of euphoria - second only really to MDMA in their propensity to that. Though they never stop being functional unless you really abuse the fuck out of them to the point where you get psychotic every time you pop one (and I've read that they never lose their efficacy in treating ADHD), many, many people certainly lose the euphoria from them that becomes very difficult to get back. If you really enjoy amphetamines, then if I were you I'd preserve the high you get from them by taking regular tolerance breaks so that you don't push it too far and wreck it for yourself with tolerance. I have also heard that NMDA antagonists like DXM or Memantine can prevent tolerance from forming and can even reverse it once it's started, so if I were you I'd start taking a low dose of DXM with the adderall as soon as possible so that you don't get more tolerance than you already have. The more time you spend off Adderall the better your chance of keeping your tolerance where it's at or even dropping it down - spending more time off of it than on it would be best. I don't know what level of use would be realistic for your situation - if it was me I'd just use it 1-2 times a week - but some breaks are better than none, even if it's just a day or two a week. I have heard of people doing 2 days on, 3 days off to prevent tolerance - would that be feasible for you?

Whichever break pattern you choose, the important thing would be for you to implement it immediately. If you value the high you get from Adderall, then if I were you I would immediately start taking regular breaks and then when you do take the Adderall take a low dose of DXM with it every time you dose. If you put these precautions in place now you have a better chance of preserving the high you get from it - if you stay complacent and assume you will always get euphoria and don't do this, then you will really regret it when your tolerance increases and you find it impossible to get any euphoria out of it at all.

Hello! I have a weird addictive tendency with adderall which I cannot explain--because I never use daily. It's like I'll go for 2-3 weeks without it and then crave it more than anything. I'll usually use 2-3 days in a row avoiding a comedown and then go back into soberville.

So I suppose I use 2-4 times a month. I've never had an addiction where I didn't feel the need to use daily. It's like an itch that I must scratch on occasion but I am nonetheless still addicted pyschologcally. My tolerance has risen for sure over the past 3 years but even so 20 milligrams of IR is still amazing to me. I do tend to take a lot during my uses though. I've never met a drug that felt good even with lower doses even after my tolerance rose so much in the past year. 80 milligrams is usually the recreational dose.

Out of any substance--cocaine, alcohol, etc adderall is the one pure "feel good" feeling. It's like pure euphoria to me. That's why I refuse to do meth, I think it'd open up a portal that would permanently ruin my life.

 

[bonsumed]

yes its when you find the truth. i wrote up a message (in my free time) thats longer than chracter limit on here, read it if u want (all up to you of course, as all things always are) pastebin. com/ eFBv8KyA

 

[nznity]

y do u think people die with a bloody syringe on their arms? cause it still feels so fucking good...