What's next?

[nuttynutskin]

Staying sober, check. Exercising, check. Eating well, check... But here I am still suffering still from depression and anxiety issues. I can usually deal with the depression and sometimes it's not as bad as other times, but it's the GAD/agoraphobia that really makes my quality of life suffer. I was on xanax for about 7 years and then clonazepam for another 1 or 2 years, but last year my doctor decided to taper me off at the same time I was trying to quit drinking. So as of now I'm un-medicated aside from kratom and propranolol, which I don't really think does shit for my anxiety. I guess my question is where do I go from here? As far as medication, with a past history of alcohol abuse it seems that most doctors are just going to want to throw SSRI's at me which I don't really have a great opinion of. If I could I would likely go back on a low dose of clonazepam but maybe not daily, but I don't think I could find anyone here that would prescribe it. Being physically addicted to a medication sucks, but at the same time if it improves your quality of life which is worse? Thoughts?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

You aren't sober. You're using kratom. Using mu opioid agonists is only gong to worsen depression and anxiety. You need some time 100% clean before you can even assess whether you can be anxeity and depression free without certain medications, if thats your goal. If after some clean time (months), you find that you are still suffering with these conditions, you take prescription drugs, not kratom and definitley not opioids in general.

opioids like kratom are going to fuck with your sleep, and your REM sleep. so you're not healing. you'll sleep, it just won't be the right cycles and optimal sleep.

i used kratom for two years. It definitley fucked with my mood big time as all opiates did. You think you're just fucked regardless of drugs or not when its happening, but its actually the opioids.

I've been 100% clean for 6 weeks now from opioids and other stuff. And my mood is far more stable than when i was on opioids. benzos i don't have much experience with. i think about using pretty much every 10 minutes though.

 

[nuttynutskin]

If after some clean time (months), you find that you are still suffering with these conditions, you take prescription drugs, not kratom and definitley not opioids in general.

Right, because prescription medication never has any bad side effects or anything lol. Kratom HELPS my mood so there's that. I'd much rather take an herb than a psych med if I can get away with it. I haven't noticed any problems with my sleep that weren't already there either.

As far as sober, I mean sober from alcohol. I was drinking myself to death about a year and a half ago. Yeah I take kratom and drink too much coffee at times but it's not destroying my life like alcohol was. If you don't consider that sober I don't really give a shit.

 

[somnilicious]

Staying sober, check. Exercising, check. Eating well, check... But here I am still suffering still from depression and anxiety issues. I can usually deal with the depression and sometimes it's not as bad as other times, but it's the GAD/agoraphobia that really makes my quality of life suffer. I was on xanax for about 7 years and then clonazepam for another 1 or 2 years, but last year my doctor decided to taper me off at the same time I was trying to quit drinking. So as of now I'm un-medicated aside from kratom and propranolol, which I don't really think does shit for my anxiety. I guess my question is where do I go from here? As far as medication, with a past history of alcohol abuse it seems that most doctors are just going to want to throw SSRI's at me which I don't really have a great opinion of. If I could I would likely go back on a low dose of clonazepam but maybe not daily, but I don't think I could find anyone here that would prescribe it. Being physically addicted to a medication sucks, but at the same time if it improves your quality of life which is worse? Thoughts?

How long have you been alcohol and xanax free because I found after being on xanax for 8-9 years that it took me over a year to start to really break free of that intense anxiety and then I was still left with a lot of stuff I had to work through to learn to deal with normal everyday anxieties and social fears. I am still not the completely confident individual I wish I was in social situations and often find that anxieties get the best of me but I am just a human being and that is par for the course but I have learned to deal with it in a more healthy productive manner.

Have you tried a good Kava kava, also a good chelated magnesium might help somewhat. Is it straight agoraphopia or do you just not like being around crowds of people in social situations or social interaction because I find walking around downtown enjoyable and one on one or a few people OK but a larger gathering of friends makes me retreat inside myself and want to get out into the open alone and there are days where I avoid human interaction like the plague but I am getting better at faking it.

 

[nuttynutskin]

How long have you been alcohol and xanax free because I found after being on xanax for 8-9 years that it took me over a year to start to really break free of that intense anxiety and then I was still left with a lot of stuff I had to work through to learn to deal with normal everyday anxieties and social fears. I am still not the completely confident individual I wish I was in social situations and often find that anxieties get the best of me but I am just a human being and that is par for the course but I have learned to deal with it in a more healthy productive manner.

I'm still pretty fresh I guess... I was tapered off my clonazepam I think a year ago and had been on xanax for 7 years prior to that. As far as being alcohol free that's only been a little over 2 months. It's been quite a while since I was drinking heavily/daily and physically addicted, but I kept fucking up about every month or two and finding myself back in 2-4 day benders until 2 months ago or so. It just finally got to the point where it wasn't worth it to even drink once in a while because of how horrible I'd feel and the fact it was too easy to keep drinking.

What helped you deal with anxiety in a healthy manner? I sort of feel like I've been hardwired with anxiety problems since I was a little kid. I blame my dad's side of the family. lol

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Right, because prescription medication never has any bad side effects or anything lol. Kratom HELPS my mood so there's that. I'd much rather take an herb than a psych med if I can get away with it. I haven't noticed any problems with my sleep that weren't already there either.

As far as sober, I mean sober from alcohol. I was drinking myself to death about a year and a half ago. Yeah I take kratom and drink too much coffee at times but it's not destroying my life like alcohol was. If you don't consider that sober I don't really give a shit.

your brain chemistry doesn't consider being on kratom sober. thats just a scientific fact. doesn't matter what you or I think.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I already explained myself that I'm sober from booze which is what was causing the damage. It could be argued that if you take prescription medication you're not really sober but that's not the point of my thread.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

my point is that opioid agonists don't help with depression and anxiety, they worsen it. I think everyone on this site would agree with that statement. If you want your symptoms to improve stop opioids for an extended time period.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Per the system: maintenance dose on indicated medication falls in line with sobriety. And it makes sense. There is a lack of trying to score euphoria while one's life continues to deteriorate. There is constancy, staying on an even keel, with the effects increasing quality of life. It's about the nature of the use as healthful and sanctioned by a doctor, versus sole intent for euphoria and use not overseen by the requisite health professional.

Kratom itself has some actions that might indicate it for depression. Buprenorphine itself has shown potential to produce a lasting antidepressant effect. The way bupe work isn't well-understood, but I believe it's a partial mu agonist and full kappa antagonist. Added into this is it's multiple psychoactive metabolites. Small doses of codeine and morphine have been found to have some efficacy in depression, at a constant dose, mind.

 

[nuttynutskin]

So what do y'all think my next step should be? See a psych? I have a doctor's appointment coming up and I think I will tell her that my anxiety is still a big problem. I'm pretty sure she already knows that tho. I am going to request a blood test as well to make sure everything is ok as far as that.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Well I'm not going off kratom anytime soon... It helps my mood, works well for minor aches and pains and I believe helps recovery from workouts or excercise. I had problems with anxiety and depression way before I ever had a problem with substance abuse. Not sure why anyone would think I became an alcoholic in the first place. Be nice if I could get some advice on the other things, but I guess everyone just wants to focus on the fact I take kratom.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

There aren't too many options here; 1) keep using some drugs experimentally on your own; 2) don't use drugs. Go to a psychiatrist or psychologist, they are going to tell you the exact same thing we told you. Just like they several ones i've been to over the years told me. You can try their FDA approved drugs with lots of science backing up efficacy or can try cognitive behavior therapy with/or without prescribed antidperessants or you can continue to conduct your own experiments. If it was me, I'd give full sobriety a shot before prescription drugs.

I get the idea of wanting to improve while still taking drugs. I'm sure it can be improved while still on drugs by lifestyle modification which you've already done it seems. I would add cognitive behaviorial therapy into the mix. Maybe get a book on it or work with a therapist on it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

the problem with using other drugs when you come off one is that you'll likely cross addict. i cross addicted from weed to benzos, from benzos to booze (then just ended up on both), booze to heroin. when you're using any drug, its almost impossible to get to the bottom of why you're really using. after getting sober, your next step is to find out why you drank so you can put tools and strategies in place to maintain your recovery, and find something healthy that fulfills the psychological need that alcohol was addressing. you're making this more difficult by using kratom, but its still worth a shot.

like, i found out i had severe ptsd due to stuff that happened when i was on gear when i got clean. i'd had odd periods off heroin but never known because i was always using something else in that time.

other than that, keep busy. i was flat out busy for my first 6 months of recovery and wouldn't have got through otherwise.

 

[geekgrl]

May be learn as much about how the brain works. Heard of action for happiness movement? Maybe try and look into positive ways to change your thinking. It's possible, I'm trying. Neuroplasticity is real. We can change ourselves is we learn how to. Good luck.

 

[nuttynutskin]

the problem with using other drugs when you come off one is that you'll likely cross addict. i cross addicted from weed to benzos, from benzos to booze (then just ended up on both), booze to heroin. when you're using any drug, its almost impossible to get to the bottom of why you're really using. after getting sober, your next step is to find out why you drank so you can put tools and strategies in place to maintain your recovery, and find something healthy that fulfills the psychological need that alcohol was addressing. you're making this more difficult by using kratom, but its still worth a shot.

Honestly, for a long time now I've always felt like I needed to have a "thing". My thing was alcohol and benzos and now is kratom and coffee. I feel like that's quite an improvement. Neither substances cloud my judgement or negatively effect my health afaik, so I don't see why it would keep me from knowing why I drank or anything else. If people don't consider that sober, I don't really care. I meant sober from alcohol anyways. Even when I was an alcoholic I knew why I drank... I suffer from mental problems. I don't think it takes a phd to see the relation there.

May be learn as much about how the brain works. Heard of action for happiness movement? Maybe try and look into positive ways to change your thinking. It's possible, I'm trying. Neuroplasticity is real. We can change ourselves is we learn how to. Good luck.

I haven't heard about. I have considered cbt tho. I was going to start that with an old therapist but I ended up sort of getting canned since I was drinking.

 

[Jopeth]

you must rewire your brain. To get to a point where you feel comfortable and confident while sober, you must create experiences that reinforce your new sobriety. For me, one of the big things (a milestone I guess) that helped me was when i was finally able to converse with people who are what I consider to be "socially sober" ie they have never done recreational drugs. When I could sit down and talk to these kinds of people *without having to lie* about where hours and hours of my week have gone, or my money, or mood swings etc the amount of relief you can have is truly incredible. True contentment. Find those experiences, and repeat them. repeat them enough to where the number of data points of sobriety reinforcement outpaces the number of addiction data points.