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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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Trump should not be trusted with classified information. This after he tweeted out classified photos of a failed Iranian missile launch.

And why does he refer to himself in the third person?

www.politico.com

How Trump gabbed too much about the ISIS raid

The president went into unusual detail about the military mission.
www.politico.com www.politico.com


President Donald Trump’s announcement of the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi revealed a slew of sensitive details about the secret military operation that could imperil future raids, special operations and intelligence, veterans fear.

Trump, who spoke for a full 48 minutes and took a series of questions at the White House, went into unusual detail about the mission inside hostile territory in Syria that he said he watched in real time “as though you were watching a movie."

Among the most striking were his descriptions of how the Army Delta Force was inserted into the heavily fortified compound, breached its walls to avoid booby-trapped doors and pursued the terrorist kingpin into a network of tunnels, where he detonated his suicide vest, killing himself and three children. But considered especially egregious was his remarks about the number and route of the commando's helicopters.

“I always get a little bit nervous when people without knowledge of operations start describing operations,” said Michael Nagata, a retired Army lieutenant general who was the senior special operations commander in the Middle East during the early stages of the anti-ISIS campaign. “It’s a good story, and I can understand the impulse to tell a good story. Telling it can have positive benefits. But the benefits are unpredictable and marginal, whereas the harm could be more substantial."

Taken together, some of the details Trump revealed could help terrorist groups piece together new information about how U.S. counterterrorism forces gather intelligence and execute such dangerous missions, said veterans of previous operations.
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@cduggles Yeah thats really concerning.

If that happend in Australia (If it was the Prime Minister) he would be charged the same as anybody else who leaked classified information.

This is one part of US law im not familiar with. Is POTUS immune from the same consequences as others?
 
andyturbo said:
@cduggles Yeah thats really concerning.

If that happend in Australia (If it was the Prime Minister) he would be charged the same as anybody else who leaked classified information.

This is one part of US law im not familiar with. Is POTUS immune from the same consequences as others?
Click to expand...

In theory? No.

In practice, yes.

The problem is that the constitution is kinda vague on this part, but it's generally been interpreted that it's the job of congress via impeachment to charge the president with crimes. And that so long as he is subject to that process, he can't also be subject to the ordinary criminal justice system.

But that's only the case for a sitting president. Once the presidents out of office, all bets are off. And they could well potentially face criminal prosecution for crimes they've committed.

This is really one of those things that's just very untested. The law is somewhat vague on it, so all we have are some interpretations that might be subject to change were a president ever to be convicted for serious crimes taken while president.

But, for now, it's standing policy that even if in us legal principle, Noone is above the law. The president is at the very least shielded from prosecution so long as they are in office. That doesn't mean their crimes are necessarily forgotten or that they could never conceivably face prosecution for them, but it does mean they don't have to worry about them now.

EDIT: on a sort of related note, I just wanna say I find it truly disgusting that trump considers killing someone without a trial, "bringing them to justice".

I'm not saying I'm sad this guys dead, or even that taking this course of action was wrong, but ffs it is NOT "bringing them to justice".
 
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andyturbo said:
This is one part of US law im not familiar with. Is POTUS immune from the same consequences as others?
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Hi Andy.
JessFR gave a great explanation.
Since you asked, here’s my take:

Two things:
As frequently referenced with regard to the Mueller report, there’s a longstanding policy in the Justice Department: according to the Office of Legal Counsel, a sitting president cannot be charged with a federal crime.

Here’s a good piece on it:
www.vox.com

Why Mueller said he couldn’t indict Trump, explained

The Justice Department has a long-standing policy that prevents federal prosecutors from charging the president with a crime.
www.vox.com www.vox.com

It’s just a policy, but it’s widely accepted within the government.

Second, there is presidential accountability built into the Constitution. The remedy is impeachment by the House of Representatives and then a trial presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court with the Senate serving as the jury.


Despite some of the press stating it’s a solely political process, which it partially is, it also involves the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and is referenced as a trial. So it’s also legal in nature, and there’s no appeal process.

It has only happened twice in American history to a sitting president, so the rules aren’t well-delineated.

Right now we’re having an impeachment inquiry, then articles of impeachment will be issued (it’s going to happen barring world war, which admittedly feels entirely possible at this point 😕).

2/3 of the Senate has to vote to convict, so it’s not likely to happen, but if it does, the penalty is removal from office.

Only 19 people have ever been impeached, including two presidents:
www.businessinsider.com

20 federal officials have been impeached in US history — here are the wildest reasons why

President Donald Trump is the third commander in chief to be impeached, but Congress has charged other federal officials, too.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

This was fun to write. Thanks for asking! 🙂
 
Wow thanks for explaining that so easily (I could understand it without geting lost lol)

Thats actually really interesting. So would I be right in saying When trump is no longer POTUS he may have a few charges to face on things he did during his term? (Such as leaking/mishandling classified documents/information)
 
andyturbo said:
Thats actually really interesting. So would I be right in saying When trump is no longer POTUS he may have a few charges to face on things he did during his term? (Such as leaking/mishandling classified documents/information)
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I think it’s really interesting, too. 🙂

There are so many current lawsuits against Trump that it’s really hard to track.
For example, one of the emoluments suits against him was dismissed, but there’s another one pending (as of this July, at least).
www.politico.com

Appeals court tosses emoluments suit against Trump

The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Maryland and D.C. lacked legal standing to object to Trump's alleged violations of the Constitution’s emoluments clauses.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

Plus Mueller was clear that he could face federal charges for obstruction of justice once he’s out of office. The catch is that the statute of limitations is five years. So if he wins reelection... 😕

www.cbsnews.com

What is the statute of limitations on potential charges against Trump?

Mueller testified several times during questioning Wednesday that Mr. Trump could face charges after leaving office
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

But realistically, yes, once he’s out of office, Trump will spend a lot of time in court.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot @andyturbo ... the president can pretty much declassify any information without a penalty.

It might not shock you to learn that this issue has arisen with Trump previously:

...Nixon’s infamous commentthat “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal” is actually true about some things. Classified information is one of them. The nature of the system is that the President gets to disclose what he wants.

The reason is that the very purpose of the classification system is to protect information the President, usually through his subordinates, thinks sensitive. So the President determines the system of designating classified information through Executive Order, and he is entitled to depart from it at will. Currently, Executive Order 13526 governs national security information.

The Supreme Court has stated in Department of the Navy v. Egan that “[the President’s] authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security ... flows primarily from this Constitutional investment of power in the President and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant.” Because of his broad constitutional authority in this realm, the president can, at any time, either declassify information or decide whom to share it with.
Click to expand...

www.lawfareblog.com

Bombshell: Initial Thoughts on the Washington Post’s Game-Changing Story

The Washington Post this afternoon published a stunning story reporting that President Trump disclosed highly-classified information to Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during their visit to the Oval Office last week. According to the Post,
www.lawfareblog.com www.lawfareblog.com
 
cduggles said:
I think it’s really interesting, too. 🙂

There are so many current lawsuits against Trump that it’s really hard to track.
For example, one of the emoluments suits against him was dismissed, but there’s another one pending (as of this July, at least).
www.politico.com

Appeals court tosses emoluments suit against Trump

The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Maryland and D.C. lacked legal standing to object to Trump's alleged violations of the Constitution’s emoluments clauses.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

Plus Mueller was clear that he could face federal charges for obstruction of justice once he’s out of office. The catch is that the statute of limitations is five years. So if he wins reelection... 😕

www.cbsnews.com

What is the statute of limitations on potential charges against Trump?

Mueller testified several times during questioning Wednesday that Mr. Trump could face charges after leaving office
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

But realistically, yes, once he’s out of office, Trump will spend a lot of time in court.
Click to expand...

The statute of limitations may not be a problem were this to actually get that far. The courts could well determine that if the president couldn't have been prosecuted for a period of time, then the statute of limitations was essentially on hold during that time.

So if he committed a crime during his time in office. The statute of limitations might only begin counting down after he leaves.

This is of course an interpretation. A plausible one the courts might make if the question were to come before them, but not a guarantee.

Frustratingly, another possibility is that they may determine retroactively that the president indeed could have been prosecuted during this time. And that the policy not to was a mistake. But that as a result, the statue of limits does apply. That would really suck. Though at least it'd let the system take action the next time we have some nutcase as president.

It's yet another of many questions we don't have answers too because the courts haven't had to deal with it yet.
 
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Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, oh the irony of the thing & his name is he had to be picked up & carried away in a bag.
Also Trump one moment was bigging up the Delta Force dogs for chasing the weird coloured beard freak down & then using dogs in a negative term?

:ROFLMAO:
 
You know this @andyturbo
Those Wahabi nutcases get down hard when they are out in the sandlands trappin hard selling their heroin.

Phonelines blowing up all day in more than one way.
I always take the piss outta my dealer so hard as his Muslim & Sunni, it's a shock I've not had my head cut off yet for some of the stuff I've said to him.

The biggest sorrow I've had was when I learned that El Chapo threat to ISIS was actually fake, I'd have loved to see how ISIScoped against a load of Chapo's gunmen. They would really have to pray to "God" then & I know it wouldn't help them one bit. They would learn what being on the wrong end of a chainsaw was like.
 
An anguished question from a Trump supporter: "Why do liberals think Trump supporters are stupid?"

The serious answer: Here’s what we really think about Trump supporters - the rich, the poor, the malignant and the innocently well-meaning, the ones who think and the ones who don't...

That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine."

That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay."

That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem."

That when he made up stories about seeing muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue."

That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you chirped, "He sure knows me."

That when you heard him illustrate his own character by telling that cute story about the elderly guest bleeding on the floor at his country club, the story about how he turned his back and how it was all an imposition on him, you said, "That's cool!"

That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw.

That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?"

That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense."

That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!"

That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!"

That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!"

That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be."

That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!"

That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!"

That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense."

That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!"

That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids. has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “well, ok then.”

That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise.

What you don't get, Trump supporters in 2018, is that succumbing to frustration and thinking of you as stupid may be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.

Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are *less* flattering.
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(source)

note: i don't think trump supporters are all stupid, but i do question the things they're willing to excuse or forgive in supporting him.

alasdair
 
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