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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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I would put my mdma into a nmr machine at work but im pretty sure i would get fired for it. Raman is not used to identify compounds unless its a pharma company i suggest you go enroll your self in college and take a chemistry degree instead of reading textbook things and repeating them without understanding the practical application the only time i ever used raman was in undergrad to study vibrational modes of acetonitrile.

@oldskoolbee Those methods line up with how my product are. I know lekucart is used for crystal product around my area due to the fact of been appoarched by a gang years ago wanting to know how to finish there mdma cook with formic acid after there first guy went to prison. I never tell people im a chemist at bars again after that. But it did confirm what methods were been used and why the mdma i use is magic with the mda hints in it.

One pot sythn methods are always trash for anything in chemistry. Instead of MS and IR mdma these batches should be put through a nmr
 
TripSitterNZ said:
I would put my mdma into a nmr machine at work but im pretty sure i would get fired for it. Raman is not used to identify compounds unless its a pharma company
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I work for a pharma company. You'd know this if you'd read the entire thread

Here is the basic info about Raman spectroscopy from the manufacturer of the best machine I use at work.
Notice that the first point on the list of information provided by this analytic method is "Chemical structure and identity".
 
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@Glubrahnum for the TLC, do I just have the sample disolved in water (either starting with the powder, or at the the end of the A/B extraction) and dab that on the plate? Watching a video on it, it seems a simple enough procedure.

Does the amount of sample put on affect the separation or is it just the size of the dots/blobs? And do I just use whatever solvent I was using for the extraction, e.g. xylene or DCM?

Final question, I see you probably need to have a uv lamp to sight the spots. I'm trying to constrain my budget as much as possible so I just looked at the cheapest on ebay. There are a load of cheap nail uv lamps. Only thing is, I've heard before of dodgy uv lamps being sold online so I just wanted to avoid something dangerous.
 
ThreePointCircle said:
do I just have the sample disolved in water (either starting with the powder, or at the the end of the A/B extraction) and dab that on the plate?
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Yes, dissolve the salt of the drug in a polar solvent (water or isopropyl alcohol).

...however you can apply the oily base of the drug (that you obtain after adding the hydroxide) directly to the plate., because the oily base will not dissolve in a polar solvent like water (it will dissolve in toluene or xylene or hexane, etc, though).

Note that doing the chromatography on the oily base is a separate test than doing it on the salt.
Both can be informative,

ThreePointCircle said:
Does the amount of sample put on affect the separation or is it just the size of the dots/blobs?
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Smaller size of the dots will allow you to see the separation better.

ThreePointCircle said:
And do I just use whatever solvent I was using for the extraction, e.g. xylene or DCM?
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Yes, just do not use any antisolvents. If it dissolves what you want to analyze then it has a potential to work. (e.g xylene for the oily base). Mixtures of solvents work even better.

ThreePointCircle said:
Final question, I see you probably need to have a uv lamp to sight the spots. I'm trying to constrain my budget as much as possible so I just looked at the cheapest on ebay. There are a load of cheap nail uv lamps. Only thing is, I've heard before of dodgy uv lamps being sold online so I just wanted to avoid something dangerous.
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In my original post about this, I posted a link about a cheap UV laser pointer that works well. Disco lamps (black lights) and UV banknote testers work well, too.

P.S.
If you use paper as the plate, select the brightest, whitest paper you can find, because it contains the UV brightening dye which helps with visualization. See this video.
 
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Glubrahnum said:
Yes, just do not use any antisolvents. If it dissolves what you want to analyze then it has a potential to work. (e.g xylene for the oily base). Mixtures of solvents work even better.
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By mixture, do you mean repeat the process on different plates? I've got xylene, DCM, isopropyl and acetone. What would be appropriate?

I'll dig up your post regarding the laser pointer, thanks. And I was planning on getting proper plates because some are going on ebay for not too much.
 
ThreePointCircle said:
By mixture, do you mean repeat the process on different plates?
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Yes, salts on one plate and freebases on another plate.

ThreePointCircle said:
I've got xylene, DCM, isopropyl and acetone. What would be appropriate?
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Acetone is a tricky one, because when it is anhydrous and cold then it does not dissolve MDMA salts.
...but when it sits around uncovered and absorbs water or gets warm, it can start dissolving the salts...leading to product loss when washing salts with it.

MDMA HCl salt is very soluble in DCM.

Xylene is good for the freebase chromatography. Do not be afraid to mix it with other non-polar solvents. Mixtures of solvents tend to work better than single solvents.
 
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oldskoolbee said:
Add this to the use of higher mass producing acids as tartaric or citric for the salting and here you have your 300 mg tablets that give the crappy, boring experience that is so common today.
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I'm no chemist, but could the acid used for salting explain a lot of this? Tartaric and citric acid are multiple times more massive than HCL, so a batch made with those would have significantly lower amounts of active mdma by weight even in a highly purified form. Combine that with the non-linear pharmacokinetics of MDMA, and you could get drastically different peak plasma concentrations.

Is it also possible that alternate salts could affect absorption rate and bioavailibility?
 
Yes and most of the industrially produced tartaric acid is the cheapest and non-racemic L-(+)-tartaric acid.
This has already been discussed in this tread.

Code: 
MDMA Acetate    111%  mass of the hydrochloride
MDMA BiTartrate 117%  mass of the hydrochloride
MDMA Oxalate    125%  mass of the hydrochloride
MDMA BiCitrate  126%  mass of the hydrochloride
MDMA Phosphate  127%  mass of the hydrochloride
MDMA Sulfate    127%  mass of the hydrochloride
 
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oldskoolbee said:
old hive bee here, some bluelight user pointed me to this thread. Won't be around much but here my input that you might appreciate and therefore a start to work on.

It's called cooking remember? different cooking recipes and procedures results in different outcomes.

you can cook a nice chunk of meat in the microwave and then sear it with a blow torch, appearance and smell will be awesome, but taste and texture (the pleasure) won't be anywhere near as a proper, slow, oven cooked roast.
same goes for chemicals, certain routes just don't produce what's expected or it is of inferior quality.

Leuckart: high quality "MAGIC" mdma plus side products as mda, stimulating, best for clubbing, work intense/time consuming synth, medium high yielding depending on chemist experience

AL/Hg and NaBH4 reduction: best for cleanest "MAGIC" MDMA, milder than Leuckar but more intimacy and sensuality, psychedelic in it's way, work intense/time consuming, specially NaBH4, medium high yielding depending on chemist experience

Pt/Pd hydrogenation: worst product of all, this is your mehMDMA. Very little labour involved, high yielding, once the reaction is set it's just a matter of waiting for completion. Add this to the use of higher mass producing acids as tartaric or citric for the salting and here you have your 300 mg tablets that give the crappy, boring experience that is so common today.

Also: PMK synth has its weak points. In the Hive times people were experimenting with alternate routes to produce pmk from safrole, O2/Wacker was one of them, quickly abandoned because the resulting ketone was inferior and the amine derived from it was weaker and missing what makes mdma special.
So chinese PMK glicidate might be also partially responsible for the missing effects of today's crappy mdma.

So just to clear (or confuse) a bit further: magic and meh are actually the same substance from a formula point of view, that's why no test can detect or differentiate the one from the other.
Why the two produce so different effects? no idea, my experience in pharmacokinetics is very limited.
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This falls perfectly in line with what I’ve been saying. Thank you man for coming in to give your notes!! Leuckart and Al/Hg give good product but leucky gives that “dance your heart out, 90s raver style” roll whereas Al/Hg gives the clean pure love with less stimulation but all around the truest form of MDMA.

-GC
 
This thread delivers. Super exciting to watch this. In the meantime, ill just keep periodically "testing" new batches in the name of science! haha
 
Honestly.. There’s more good info on MDMA variation in this thread then anywhere else on the net. Some day we’ll get that answer we’ve been wanting, it’s been years but I feel we get closer and closer all the time..

What I would give though for a batch of Leuckart MDMA.. Lol.

-GC
 
Yeah, it would be great if we had access to multiple samples with multiple confirmed synthesis routes and could compare the effects. I am hoping that when the final FDA phase is complete and MDMA becomes a prescription that the taboo of studying it will be lifted somewhat. Maybe then we will see more diverse studies examining effects, production etc.
 
epic11 said:
This thread delivers. Super exciting to watch this. In the meantime, ill just keep periodically "testing" new batches in the name of science! haha
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G_Chem said:
Honestly.. There’s more good info on MDMA variation in this thread then anywhere else on the net. Some day we’ll get that answer we’ve been wanting, it’s been years but I feel we get closer and closer all the time..

What I would give though for a batch of Leuckart MDMA.. Lol.

-GC
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Easy guys. Well Im up ridiculous late hours, tired, stoned and chilled in a dreamy state. Reading your comments put an image in my head. I get visual, symbollic images and visions pop into my imagination all the time.

The one forming just now, of this thread, was a glowing lantern, drawing in all the flies.

A good few of you have shown so much passion for getting to the crux of this. I think it is impressive how you have all put your heads together, established a solid backbone and set of premises to the discussion and matter.

The stage and platform has been well established for the cleverer heads to pool together as a thinking cap, with the brainy chemists really taking the reigns and probing at the heart of the matter.

I'll be honest, all the technical stuff goes right over my head. But I do feel that some really good points have been highlighted and a very effective and worthwhile brainstorm has unfolded. With doors of exploration opened up from here.

I mean, I don't think we have "the answer" just yet, but it does appear that a number of crucial factors and varaibles have been identified/raised. And I bet revelation will come from these lines of thought eventually.

Although I'm sure there is still one hell of a twisty wormhole to crawl up to actually unravel anything concrete.

Moving forwards though arguably. So well done all you clever heads. I was sent along with a different role. They said- Auto, get in there, tell some tales, crack a joke, mix thing up while the guys work on figuring thingd out.

And I did...and you did!
 
So has anyone here ever detected any significant levels of methylmercury in any of these samples? Maybe the result of a botched cook in some rural area by some inexperienced chemist? Or is the idea highly unlikely?
 
This thread is about that issue. I think it is very rare and might be possible only when different synths are done in the same glassware that was not cleaned properly.
 
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Glubrahnum said:
This thread is about that issue. I think it is very rare and might be possible only when different synths are done in the same glassware that was not cleaned properly.
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Ah thankyou. Would you be able to link me to your original post in this thread about the sample you tested. As I believe it is what the conversation in the other thread is referring to. I went through your posting history but couldn’t seem to find it ?‍♀️
 
Wentworth211 said:
I went through your posting history but couldn’t seem to find it ?‍♀️
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The messages posted before the upgrade of this forum's software, are not indexed (ask the admin why). I cannot find it through the search fn either. I did not delete it, so it must be there somewhere among my messages. If you want to find it, you just have to read them all.
 
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