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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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alasdairm said:
you can't have your cake and eat it. if this is true then lumping all right-leaners or conspiracy-theorists together is just criticism of their ideology and most right-leaners and conspiracy-theorists are very intolerant to ideas that run counter to their ideology...
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There's no conspiracy theory ideology, apart from being skeptical of MSM bullshit and doing your own research across a wide variety of areas, which everyone should do anyway.
It's not a political movement.

I got no problem with people attacking "the Right" though as they are more of a cohesive political movement.
So relax, if you are not one of the crazies then I'm not referring to you.
But if you aren't one of the crazies, then I don't know why you would still call yourself a liberal.
 
I'd argue the conspiracy theory ideology is a complete rejection that the world is full of chaos with no real intelligence in charge of any of it (which is to say, my point of view).

The conspiracy theory ideology instead proposes that the world is actually highly ordered, and anything that appears to be chaos is in fact the orderly result of a power that's simply obscured.
 
JGrimez said:
But if you aren't one of the crazies, then I don't know why you would still call yourself a liberal.
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I just don't believe in nationalism or isolationism, and I believe everyone should be respected for their personal beliefs/identities. I guess that makes me a liberal. I don't think that's crazy at all.
 
Xorkoth said:
I just don't believe in nationalism or isolationism, and I believe everyone should be respected for their personal beliefs/identities. I guess that makes me a liberal. I don't think that's crazy at all.
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Nationalism can still be a multicultural nation, i.e. America.

"Principal Skinner, you're just stealing!"

"Welcome to Dick Cheney's America"
 
Sure, I know that. But I also don't believe in nationalism. I think that the attitude that your country is superior to every other country leads to hatred and violence, or it opens the doors to it. Strong nationalism is one of the most powerful tools that leaders use to justify war and subjugation.
 
Wow, I've been wondering if someone would ever make a Simpsons reference I didn't get because it came after the show started to suck, and it finally happened.

:)

Xorkoth said:
Sure, I know that. But I also don't believe in nationalism. I think that the attitude that your country is superior to every other country leads to hatred and violence, or it opens the doors to it. Strong nationalism is one of the most powerful tools that leaders use to justify war and subjugation.
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Well that's kinda the nebulous, poorly defined difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Loving your country shouldn't have to mean having feelings of its superiority over other countries. And when it doesn't most people call it patriotism, when it does people call it nationalism.
 
Sarah Marshall said:
Nope not till toward the end when it was obvious. Took me by surprise. I still remember all the outrageous things he would say on live television
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No I didn't think he'd win either.

Which is kinda my point. We were wrong to think he wouldn't win, we shouldn't be too confident of the reverse either.

These elections have proven notoriously difficult to predict.
 
alasdairm said:
my point exactly :) there's no monolithic 'leftist' or 'liberal' ideology either.
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At one of the recent democratic debates, the candidates were asked to raise their hand if they agreed that illegal immigrants should receive healthcare - every single candidate raised their hand.
This is insane as it incentivizes people to cross into the country illegally, while a massive number of US citizens aren't receiving adequate or affordable healthcare themselves. Nonsensical
There is plenty that most leftists have in common, especially the themes being pushed by the establishment and mainstream media.

JessFR said:
I'd argue the conspiracy theory ideology is a complete rejection that the world is full of chaos with no real intelligence in charge of any of it (which is to say, my point of view).
The conspiracy theory ideology instead proposes that the world is actually highly ordered, and anything that appears to be chaos is in fact the orderly result of a power that's simply obscured.
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No that is not accurate. If anything it could be described as believing that powerful people conspire in secret - which we actually know is a fact. And you could say that they do so in a way that looks to benefit a small group and subjugate the vast majority of the world. I know right, fucking crazy.

Also why would you be believe that most world events happen by accident? That's such a lazy way to view the world. It's almost as if you're scared of the possibility of (evil) people having control (even though that explains a lot).

Xorkoth said:
I just don't believe in nationalism or isolationism, and I believe everyone should be respected for their personal beliefs/identities. I guess that makes me a liberal. I don't think that's crazy at all.
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Good job ignoring the massive amounts of insanity that is currently connected to the world "liberal". I am a classical liberal by definition, but I'll be damned if I call myself a liberal today.

How could any legitimate "liberal" be against free speech? It was the fucking liberals that fought for it lol (another example of the insanity).

If you want I can make a thread to list all the liberal insanity. It will be many, many, many pages though.
 
Oh wow look at that, more FAKE NEWS from the establishment about Trump that they were forced to apologize for.
Just listen to the apology/explanation and that should tell you a lot about how these types of outlets conduct their "research".

www.breitbart.com

MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell Apologizes for Trump-Russia Conspiracy

MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell issued an apology Wednesday afternoon after President Donald Trump demanded the retraction of an unsourced claim.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
Trump Breaks MSNBC: Lawrence O’Donnell Apologizes for Deutsche Bank Claims
 
I'm saying I don't believe that "most" liberals agree with the stuff you label (rightly) as insanity. I think you only think that because the media is frothing at the mouth to stir this shit up so you hear about it all he time (it's the same reason why many liberals think that most conservatives are racist, uneducated pieces of shit). The problem is the media, and the majority of the people in control, who are all just corporate shills disguised as pandering extremists. Meanwhile, most of the American people just want a rather short list of sensible outcomes and don't care about most of the shit you hear about. For example, my aunt only votes Republican. But the ONLY reason is because she's very religious and sees abortion as murder and wants it outlawed. I disagree with outlawing abortion, but I don't think she's crazy for thinking that way and I don't automatically assume she believes all of the dumb shit I hear about on the news.

But yeah the news media pushing this shit is a problem. The media has sold out in a terrible way and given every extremist nutjob a platform and then poured it all down our eagerly awaiting throats. We've been primed to outrage and people lap it up and the news outlets make bank.
 
Xorkoth said:
Sure, I know that. But I also don't believe in nationalism. I think that the attitude that your country is superior to every other country leads to hatred and violence, or it opens the doors to it. Strong nationalism is one of the most powerful tools that leaders use to justify war and subjugation.
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Why could it not lead to peacefully copying them, as it does happen in capitalism? Everyone is copying the iPhone, the strongest countries's policies are being copied.

BTW very interestingly many Chinese people really like him!
www.theatlantic.com

China Loves Trump

The people love a winner. The leadership loves a dupe.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
Contempt for America’s current brand of political correctness is a recurring fixation, as are illegal immigration, Islamist terrorism, affirmative action, transgender activism, and Hillary Clinton. One Zhihu user I spoke with said he supported Trump not because he particularly liked him, but because the style of today’s Democratic Party “reminds us a lot of the Cultural Revolution.”
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Well, I honestly don't think that everyone should copy the current American model, as it's been corrupted into serving corporate interests at the expense of the people. American government and American capitalism are essentially the same thing at this point and they're unsustainable and not a good thing for the majority of the people in America or the rest of the world.

I think America was founded on a beautiful foundation and truly led the world forward morally, technologically and economically for a long time, but has really gone off the rails since post-WW2. I love this country and I want it to get better. But right now we are not something to emulate. However, excessive nationalism has led to blind support of our model. For some it's akin to blasphemy to talk against the United States in any way, which is nonsense and is fundamentally un-American (part of the beauty of the foundation of this country is the right to criticize, in fact the patriotic duty to criticize). In this way, nationalism can also lead to the moral decay of a nation.
 
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