Conspiracies Epstein Dies in Custody - Alleged Suicide, Some Speculate it was a Hit Job

[Captain.Heroin]

I didn't ignore your post, I just don't think that you've made any good points. Yes, other people are free to believe what they wish. I have no issue with this.
I'd like to know, for the people that are leaning towards suicide, how was he able to do it when 40 years of prisoners couldn't?

You didn't want to address if you've ever been suicidal before?

I won't judge you for being a lifelover that doesn't have 1st hand knowledge of what suicidal ideation/determination is like. I just imagine you've probably had a decent life and probably haven't gone through the dark thoughts some of us have. I might be wrong. I'm not going to judge you either way man I just want to know other people better, I like psychology, I like understanding perspectives.

I'm sorry if it was a personal question and you don't wish to answer.

Like I said I have no reason to believe in 40 years "no one" committed suicide there. It likely did occur and got swept under the rug to avoid a huge payout which is really, really obvious. It may have also been covered up so someone didn't lose their jobs. Epstein was such a huge case no one could sweep that one under the rug.

Again I am certain I would find a way in almost any situation. I am a very determined individual. Without a feeding tube or medical treatment against your will, you can starve to death quite easily and it won't be painful/discomforting past the first few days - though the end can get quite rough ("can") and you HAVE to stay hydrated.

You could then claim the non-medical interventionist type of Christian belief system and the state would have to let you starve to death if that was your wish.

I can assure you that you may be a rather determined individual but you have not applied the determination to a suicidal obsession/wish before I am sure. I have and I assure you that your brain is not as exercised in this as mine is. Suicidal is not impossible in almost any situation. If you can withstand a lot of self-induced pain and torment you can easily drown yourself in a toilet or stopped sink. It wouldn't take but a few inches of water. If you are upper-body strong enough I'm sure you could also break your own neck (but I wouldn't recommend it for fear of an incomplete job leading to paralysis).

It wouldn't take a psychology major to walk up to the right person in jail and say the thing you know will make them want to kill you. Especially if you do preliminary interviews to find out who's most likely to kill you at the drop of a hat.

If you know where your major arteries are you can sever them and bleed out in minutes; it shouldn't be impossible to find a tool to do this in any jail/prison if you are there long enough.

I am sorry if this post is quite morbid but the man had many ways to do it and opted for what appears to me to be the quickest, most impulsive and least painful one at his disposal.

If you really wanted to snap your neck I'm sure wedging your head between two bars and quickly spinning the rest of your body 90+ degrees clockwise or counter clockwise while holding on with your hands to the other bars would work too. Easily someone could help you do this and then just stage the noose. There's more ideas but these seem simplest that would cross the mind of anyone who thinks of suicide as constantly as I have/sometimes still do.

 

[JessFR]

If you've answered this question before when I've asked then I must have missed it...

Exactly what is so implausibly coincidental about any of this? You keep acting like there's this mass of enormous coincidences such that the only sensible conclusion is that there's more going on, but I'm not seeing anything that's such an unlikely coincidence here.

 

[cduggles]

I'd like to know, for the people that are leaning towards suicide, how was he able to do it when 40 years of prisoners couldn't?

The last inmate suicide at the Metropolitan Correction Center, before Mr. Epstein killed himself, was in 2006, according to the agency.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/us/politics/hugh-hurwitz-jeffrey-epstein.html

Or maybe you’re from the future? ?

 

[JGrimez]

You didn't want to address if you've ever been suicidal before?

Whether I or you or Epstein have ever been suicidal before is irrelevant. If you were housed in that prison you would not be able to commit suicide no matter how much you wanted to.

Like I said I have no reason to believe in 40 years "no one" committed suicide there. It likely did occur and got swept under the rug to avoid a huge payout which is really, really obvious. It may have also been covered up so someone didn't lose their jobs. Epstein was such a huge case no one could sweep that one under the rug.

This is pure speculation based on nothing. If anything they would hide murders and make them appear as suicides.

Again I am certain I would find a way in almost any situation. I am a very determined individual. Without a feeding tube or medical treatment against your will, you can starve to death quite easily and it won't be painful/discomforting past the first few days - though the end can get quite rough ("can") and you HAVE to stay hydrated.

You would never get to this point while in prison. There are ways to feed you.

but the man had many ways to do it

He really didn't, and he should have been monitored in case he was trying. And on suicide watch he'd have even less ways to do it. It's virtually impossible.

If you really wanted to snap your neck I'm sure wedging your head between two bars and quickly spinning the rest of your body 90+ degrees clockwise or counter clockwise while holding on with your hands to the other bars would work too.

lol this isn't a cartoon.

 

[JGrimez]

If you've answered this question before when I've asked then I must have missed it...

Exactly what is so implausibly coincidental about any of this? You keep acting like there's this mass of enormous coincidences such that the only sensible conclusion is that there's more going on, but I'm not seeing anything that's such an unlikely coincidence here.

It's about probabilities. The more coincidences that align, the less believable it becomes.

Let me ask you - what's so implausible about him being murdered? There's undoubtedly motive there. So what exactly are you resisting?

 

[Deleted member 521610]

You can kill yourself in any jail cell with anything. Prisoners that were in max security would just run head first repeatedly into the wall with max force before they died. I take it you haven't been inside cause the lengths i have seen people go to to time guard checks on the inside so they could go through with it is something else. Alot of prision suicides are never reported on paper cause the prisons can be fined by the government for them so management covers up alot of them.

Prisoners are the most crafty people on the planet always figuring out a way to get around the system and do things. Even suicide watch is not bullet proof some of the more determined ones will stab a fucking toothbrush into their ateries in their own neck and bleed out within seconds they are far past the point of pain.

 

[JessFR]

It's about probabilities. The more coincidences that align, the less believable it becomes.

Let me ask you - what's so implausible about him being murdered? There's undoubtedly motive there. So what exactly are you resisting?

I asked first, and not for the first time either.

Also, I've never said him being murdered was implausible, what I've repeatedly said to you is that I don't know the truth, and that either possibility is conceivable.

But you aren't saying you don't know, or that either possibility is conceivable, you're confidentially saying murder (or enabled suicide) is the only sensible conclusion, and you've repeatedly used the reason that believing that it were legitimately suicide requires believing in too many implausible coincidences to accept.

So I'll ask one more time, and if I don't get an answer this time I'll simply conclude you have no answer.

What is so coincidental about the suicide theory that makes it so unlikely, so implausible, that it becomes more likely that it were murder?

 

[swilow]

Prisoners are the most crafty people on the planet always figuring out a way to get around the system and do things. Even suicide watch is not bullet proof some of the more determined ones will stab a fucking toothbrush into their ateries in their own neck and bleed out within seconds they are far past the point of pain.

I think suicide watch is typically devoid of any furniture or accessories that could plausibly be used to commit suicide with, but I would imagine that if you had money, you might be able to buy a bit of time/space/rope.

Given the high security facilities, the argument against suicide in the case of Epstein can probably be applied in part to the murder theory too.

 

[JessFR]

I was under suicide watch once, though in a hospital not a prison. All it was in my experience was being placed in one of the rooms right next to the nurses station, with them required to visually check on me every 15-30 minutes.

Honestly, them checking all the time was the only thing they did I found that would make suicide very difficult. If they simply didn't bother (like these guards didn't), I don't see it being very effective.

And frankly I can't say it'd surprise me if a lot of people who's job could be described as "make sure the child molester doesn't off himself" don't entirely have their heart in it.

 

[JGrimez]

What is so coincidental about the suicide theory that makes it so unlikely, so implausible, that it becomes more likely that it were murder?

To be fair I've made multiple posts in this thread outlining the list of coincidences that had to happen in order for this "suicide" to be successful.
I'm not doubting that he could have managed to kill himself, my extreme suspicion is that it was allowed to have happened, considering the importance of the victim and what he could have potentially divulged, and looked like he was on track to do so.

If they simply didn't bother (like these guards didn't), I don't see it being very effective.

And that is one of those unbelievable coincidences. If it was regarding average prisoner, then yea it's plausible. But Jeffrey Epstein? It's possible but becomes FAR less plausible.

 

[JessFR]

If you have made a list of the coincidences in the past then I apologize but I must have missed them. Could you either repeat yourself or direct me to where you've outlined them?

As for the guards, I don't find that implausible at all. I don't see why it's hard to believe that the guards weren't doing their job. Guards, cops, people in authority fail to do their jobs properly all the time.

I doubt there are many government institutions where everything is running above board.

I just don't find that unlikely at all. I'd actually find it less likely if they had been doing their job properly.

Nothing ever gets done until someone fucks up. And even then, it only gets better for a while, then people get lazy and fuck up again. Nothing unusual about that.

 

[JGrimez]

Once again, the "incompetence" argument doesn't apply here, considering Epstein was the most important and valuable prisoner in the world.
This is obvious stuff. There's no accidental incompetence at this level.

TWO guards asleep at the same time - they also falsified monitor logs saying they did check on him.
There was allegedly no camera in his cell - which would've prevented a suicide as someone could have spotted him on the monitor. VERY difficult to believe he didn't have a camera on him at all times. I don't buy this for second and nobody else should, this would be beyond incompetence.
Reports of hearing him shrieking.
Attempted to kill himself (or was attacked) a few weeks before and was inexplicably taken off of suicide watch.
His cellmate, who was there to keep an eye on him so that a suicide couldn't happen, was transferred out of the cell.
So while every failsafe in place failed, he attempted suicide at that moment and was successful.
There was a bone in his neck broken that is more synonymous with strangulation than suicide by hanging.

Then there's the potential of Epstein ratting out his mates for a reduced sentence. The trial didn't even get to that point. Keep in mind that he may have had dirt on people such as Prince Andrew (Royal Family), Ehud Barak (previous Israeli PM) and Bill Clinton (co-founder of the Clinton Body Count).

....... tough situation for a devout anti-conspiracy theorist.

 

[JessFR]

Well I guess that's the difference, I do buy it.

For that matter, I think considering epstein the most important and valuable prisoner in the world is in itself absurd. But even if it weren't, that doesn't mean he was anyone important to the staff.

To be honest, I kinda suspect that part of the reason you can't believe that the system could have done such a bad job keeping him alive, is that you're already significantly over valuing his worth to the world.

Now if Osama bin laden had been caught, then hung himself, then there's no way I'd believe it was an accident. But epstein? Yeah I totally could believe that.

Actions beyond incompetence by government instutions is something I find totally plausible.

Sounds less like your complaint is unbelievable coincidences, but more than you consider epstein so highly valued that you can't believe the system could fuck it up so badly. And well, I don't agree.

 

[yepyepwoah]

Well I guess that's the difference, I do buy it.

For that matter, I think considering epstein the most important and valuable prisoner in the world is in itself absurd. But even if it weren't, that doesn't mean he was anyone important to the staff.

To be honest, I kinda suspect that part of the reason you can't believe that the system could have done such a bad job keeping him alive, is that you're already significantly over valuing his worth to the world.

Now if Osama bin laden had been caught, then hung himself, then there's no way I'd believe it was an accident. But epstein? Yeah I totally could believe that.

Actions beyond incompetence by government instutions is something I find totally plausible.

Sounds less like your complaint is unbelievable coincidences, but more than you consider epstein so highly valued that you can't believe the system could fuck it up so badly. And well, I don't agree.

That is because you do not believe there is a worldwide network of pedophiles abusing and murdering children. It's still just some weird conspiracy to you. You think this guy was a one off, move along nothing to see here.

Now the terrorist osama bin laden is obviously a clear danger cuz he was all over the news right? Fuckin jihadi terrorist gonna come get us and shit.

 

[JessFR]

No I do think there are international pedophile rings. I just don't think they're part of some uber conspiracy that runs and controls everything and anything.

But no, you'd have to be blind not to think pedophile networks exist.

And yes, Osama bin ladin was a much higher value target. We didn't wind up in a war hunting down epstein.

 

[yepyepwoah]

So how is this less important thatn Osama? Osama just hated America.

These guys hate all kids everywhere.

 

[JessFR]

It's not a question of some objective amount of importance. It's a question of subjective importance to those with the power to surreptitiously cause his death, and those with the power to prevent his death.

Epstein certainly wasn't a nobody, but he's a long way from ever having been the number one target of the most powerful state machine ever to exist.

Everybody knew about Osama bin ladin after 9/11. A large portion of the population probably still don't know who epstein is now.

 

[yepyepwoah]

It's not a question of some objective amount of importance. It's a question of subjective importance to those with the power to surreptitiously cause his death, and those with the power to prevent his death.

Epstein certainly wasn't a nobody, but he's a long way from ever having been the number one target of the most powerful state machine ever to exist.

Everybody knew about Osama bin ladin after 9/11. A large portion of the population probably still don't know who epstein is now.

Isn't it kind of weird maybe 4k people die in a plane "attack" and we go to war for over a decade.

400,000 children go missing every year in America and ... crickets... Can you explain this?

Can you explain why this guy Epstein, and those like him aren't the #1 targets of all LE everywhere? Is there one thing we can't agree on as people, that you shouldn't traffic, rape, and murder children? Does that not seem weird? Would it not be, at least a little, indicative of a far reaching conspiracy for domination and control off the efforts of men like Jeffrey Epstein?

I'm not going to derail with my opinions on 9/11, osama, and the wars, I'm sure you can guess.

 

[JessFR]

Yep, I can explain it.

Hundreds of thousands are reported missing, because parents, and especially mothers, are programmed to be paranoid.

99% of the time, the children are found. For that matter on average only about a hundred children a year go missing due to being abducted by someone unknown to the family.

The number of children who go missing and are never heard of again is very small.

When you can conclusively show me that over half a million children truly vanish a year in America while law enforcement and the state do nothing about it, then I'll agree it's almost certainly a conspiracy.

For what it's worth though, if nothing else you're right that what we as a society fear, what we focus on, is totally irrational and frequently doesn't represent an appropriate use of resources.

I mean, the numbers are low, but they're still higher than how often you see media circuses about missing children, because we only have those over pretty middle class white girls.

Not a conspiracy, people just suck.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

people just suck.

^ this