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Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2019ish

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F.U.B.A.R. said:
You're just pissed off because you keep getting robbed by scumbags ;)
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They have kept away from me since, but come on mate you know this game as well as I do, you got a guy who is well known round here for hurting folks, his been smoking white all day, your down an alley with nobody around & he pulls a blade (Stanley knife) to your face about 5mm away from your eye & he says "Gimme your gear & cahs OR I'm gonna cut you THEN take it off you" what you gonna do mate?

I did one of the Muslims round here to help me out, Mr D a few days alter turned up with his eye black/purple & still gut a busted lip talking all nice to me etc & giving me baccy, strange that huh?
 
swilow said:
...and proceeds to illustrate this point with a single anecdote. ?

In point of fact, there must be many millions of unused guns in the US given the amount thought to be out there in the community and the comparatively low rates of shooting. Truth is, hardly anyone is actually using their guns for home defense. That's an NRA myth.

I dont know about you but I've never needed a gun once in my life and I have been involved in a fair bit of violence. None of it ever involved guns. Makes me wonder if rampant gun ownership really makes society safer or if it's actually a massive liability and risk factor for, ya know, getting shot.
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Ive actually used my guns twice for home defense. The first time was when I moved to Louisiana. We weren't even at the house a week (our stuff didn't arrive yet) and some scumbag tried breaking in (he actually did), thinking the house was still unoccupied. The very second he walked through that door I had my SBR pointed right at him with a green laser pointed right at his chest (I heard him trying to break in the back door, so I was ready). Dude stood there for like 20 seconds and eventually ran off.

The second time was when I was with my family (in Louisiana still). We were coming back from dinner and my front door was open (you could obviously see it from the street). I had my AR with me because I went to the base to shoot at the range earlier in the day. Ended up clearing my house and found the guy scavaging in my parent's bedroom. I held him there till LEO arrived.

Note, this was in an upper-middle-class neighborhood too.

Several of my friends have done it too here in Florida.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Hard disagree. We need to keep up the proxy and trade wars, resume attacking DPRK and strike Iran when the time is right. None of us are going to be able to afford a house in our lifetimes. Especially not at the rate I'm going.

The best we can hope for is several generations to pay off the nat'l/state deficits, solve CO2 emissions through reforestation, and deal with global warming because there's no stopping emissions. The world is on fire and no one cares.
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I understand where you're coming from, but I still think it possible to create a stable middle-class without destroying the world. A move away from extreme consumerism doesn't mean homes can't (or shouldn't) be built for people of lower status.

I also don't think the national debt is as big a deal as you do but that's something I'm not too educated about and don't want to make and real statement. Suffice to say, debt has been an integral part of U.S. society since the first white settlers reached the shores of the East coast, and it's probably never going to go away. We are a credit nation. And that's fine, as long as it's not solely to benefit the wealthy.

In terms of invading DPRK and Iran, I think you have solid reasoning. They should have been dealt with ages ago. The two things that disappointed me most about the Obama years was the lack of progress towards drug legalization and the soft-handed approach to foreign policy. We are America and we are the World Police (lol) and that's something that our country needs to excel (for some reason...).

swilow said:
...and proceeds to illustrate this point with a single anecdote. ?
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You're right swil, a single anecdote is no basis for any argument, but it does express why I personally want a firearm, because I've seen how it has protected people that I care about. On top of that, I come from a family on my mothers side where firearm ownership has been a multi-generational thing. When my grandma was finally forced to go to a home and we had to clear out her house, we found DOZENS of hidden handguns and shotguns littered through her home. I had no idea she was so strapped lol. But I can understand why. There was a string of murders in her neighborhood, where guys were breaking into old lady's homes to rob them and murdering them. I can empathize with why she would wana have a handgun in every room.

Maybe crime isn't as rampant in Aus. Maybe crime is rampant here because of wealth disparity, and that could be solved and thus violent crime too. But I doubt it. Personally, my wife and I are poor and don't fear being robbed because we're a poor target. But when we can afford to leave our ghetto apartment and move somewhere nicer, you bet your ass a shotgun is gonna be one of my self home-warming presents. Actually, I'm one of very few people I know that doesn't own a firearm here...
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
They have kept away from me since, but come on mate you know this game as well as I do, you got a guy who is well known round here for hurting folks, his been smoking white all day, your down an alley with nobody around & he pulls a blade (Stanley knife) to your face about 5mm away from your eye & he says "Gimme your gear & cahs OR I'm gonna cut you THEN take it off you" what you gonna do mate?

I did one of the Muslims round here to help me out, Mr D a few days alter turned up with his eye black/purple & still gut a busted lip talking all nice to me etc & giving me baccy, strange that huh?
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Yeh, it's times like that that you really wish you had a gun so you could blow his balls off. But if you had a gun, then chances are he'd also have a gun. Then before you know it, every cunt has a gun. Then two guns, etc..
 
Also much less easy to kill someone with. At least with a knife you have a chance, you can match skills against someone else. You can't dodge or parry a bullet.

Don't take this as me wanting to ban guns because I don't. I don't like that we have 300 million or more guns in the United States, but as others have pointed out, banning them isn't going to solve the problem.
 
Xorkoth said:
I don't like that we have 300 million or more guns in the United States
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How intolerant.

I might say "we have 300 million or more non-native Americans in the US DEPORT THEM ALL": how likely is this to happen? Is this fair? Doesn't this violate the constitution?

I'm all about rational gun control, like maybe people should be only allowed to own a collection of 3, 5, 7, 10 guns tops? 20, 30, 50+ assault rifles seems beyond the pale of reason in terms of a gun collection. For a single person, reasonably, how many guns do you need to defend your place? Do you need an assault rifle in each room of your mansion?

One for the bedroom, one or two for the safe, a few handguns, one in the car... I can't see 7 to 10 being an unreasonable limit.

But banning all the assault rifles, or all the handguns, or wanting to ban bump stocks, it just seems silly to me. Every bullet has a 50/50 odds of killing you. Some guns just happen to be more efficient at delivering bullets/minute.

ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. With guns.
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Exactly AND we have 300+ million people THE LIBERALS WILL NEVER SAY OVERPOPULATION IS THE LEADING DRIVER OF THE ECOLOGICAL COLLAPSE/GLOBAL WARMING.... "People aren't the problem, Trump is!" give me a break. 300,000,000+ people are a problem.

There wouldn't be school shootings in public schools if they didn't exist. Another thing liberals love to ignore; the institutional failure of public schools to serve children properly despite the *inexcusable cost* of public education.
 
I assume you're joking about my statement being intolerant? I'm just saying I wish we didn't have so many guns, or hell, any guns at all, I'd prefer if they were never invented, I'd feel safer if people were walking around with knives instead. But, here we are.
 
It was tongue-in-cheek humor.

I tend to think metal machines aren't the problem but people are and a lot of this is a mental health based crisis. Guns don't have brains. If they did I don't know how any of us would still be alive ;)

So if you wish we JUST DIDN'T HAVE SO MANY why didn't my comments about A RATIONAL LIMIT to how many an individual can have ring through to you? My words addressed just that without falling into the "but it's an ASSAULT RIFLE!" type hysterics.

I am glad I live in a world with guns. I wouldn't want to go through certain parts of the world without one. Not so much because of people but because there is still wildlife out there, i.e. bears, and a knife is not going to save your life in that situation.
 
I didn't descend into assault rifle hysterics. In terms of your rational limit of 7-10 guns, I don't really see how 10 guns is any different from having 100 guns, either way you have a lot of guns. You can't fire more than 1 or possibly 2 guns at once anyway. If someone has a gun in every room of the house for defense, that makes sense. If someone who wants to use guns to murder people has a gun in every room of the house, it's not going to make any difference, all they need is 1 gun to shoot people. All I was trying to say is that I would feel safer in my life if guns didn't exist at all. But that's not the case. I'm not trying to make a statement about numbers of guns allowed, or banning guns, or anything about assault rifles.
 
xorky come on pretend like we're in congress and I'm a big Republican from a big Republican state like Texas and I like walking around with two pistols each with like 400 rounds just because I like to go YEE HAW and shoot up in the air on the 4th of July. But also because of things like Luby's. How do you try to reason with me a rational limit?

Can you put a number on it?

Can you make it logical to someone on the other side of the aisle?
 
There are no "left" or "right" laws.... there are just laws, and ideas for what laws there should be. I'm for more vetting for people trying to buy guns, but I don't think we should ban guns, or have limits on how many guns are owned (I never proposed a limit, you brought that up). I think we should have limits on magazine capacity and rate of fire for private citizens because it's obvious that both of these things increase the ability to massacre large amounts of people (like the Vegas shooter who sprayed bullets out a window and killed over 50 people - try telling me a "mass stabbing" could have the same effect, or a handgun or some other non-auto weapon). Although I admit that since automatic/semi-automatic weapons are already out there, people can get their hands on them illegally which means banning them won't really solve the problem.

I'm not proposing solutions, I'm just identifying problems. I don't know what to do about it. The only thing I do think is more vetting plus waiting periods for buying guns legally, and closing gun show loopholes. Yeah, people can still get them illegally, but it would become more difficult for people to get them on a whim, which is a good thing. Buying a gun should be a considered event, and waiting 10 days or whatever shouldn't be a big deal, unless for some reason you NEED to have a gun RIGHT NOW (and why would that be?)

I think the easy availability of guns and the gun culture we have in America are problems and are certainly part of the reason there is more gun violence here than in any other first-world country. But I'm not so naive as to believe we can solve this problem with prohibition, and I also don't think people shouldn't be allowed to have guns. I think there are a lot of factors and the state of our culture and the increasing frustration as a result of wealth disparity and radicalization of the political spectrum are much, much bigger factors than the guns themselves.
 
I see now why you would think I was suggesting a limit since I said I don't like that there are 300 million guns, but what I was really trying to say is that it makes me feel unsafe, and I hate that they're so ubiquitous. But I don't think it matters if we set individual limits, it's not going to solve gun violence.
 
NOTHING on this planet will ever solve gun violence. NOTHING. Anyone that says otherwise is wrong.
 
Yes it's true, because humans are violent and guns are the most convenient and efficient readily-available tools to do the job. That's why I said they wish they didn't exist, if the best weapons were still swords and knives, at least you could fight back and use your skill if attacked. Guns have eliminated the ability to fight fair, and they also can cause accidental collateral damage easily. But it's wishful thinking I know, I was just expressing a sentiment. Since we can't stop people from being people, what we should focus on is making things better so that people stop feeling the desire to murder-suicide, so that communities don't exist where violence is a necessary way of life due to poverty.
 
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