Phenethylamines The Small & Handy 2C-EF Thread
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Kaleida
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Zeta:
I'm happy that you found it to be so, and thanks for saying so too.
Now, I just woke up and I can feel Kappa coming back out thinking about those other responses in here so let's get this back on track....
Kappa:
That's how it often happens by the way, another little fun fact.... The switches generally happen on their own but they're usually pretty obviously correlated to we're doing or what's going on, like it seems still in some way related to how our brain organizes our behavior as we switch through different tasks and moods with some similarity to how it would in someone without DID. "We" were thinking about getting back to these responses finally but I was the one who typed the post they were responding to so I was thinking about it the most and voila, here I am to type them out. I can still hear Zeta replaying what she typed before in the back of our head too like people do but she's slowly sinking away again. Anyway, just a little more insight, let's really get to this now....
Glad you think so, that's how I felt about it at least. And yeah, I've seen a lot of evidence that there are a number of different functional variants, but so, so few studies actually testing the differences between them; I wonder how different of a picture we would have of certain psychedelic functional activities if they actually took the time to catalogue all the most common ones and tested each and every one of them every time they did those studies?
That's incredibly fascinating about the NBOMes and does indeed seem to pretty much prove my point here to some extent at least. I don't suppose you have any idea what that study was? I might have to go looking for it myself even if you don't because it sounds very interesting, a good proof-of-concept.... NBOMes are... nice? of course but I'd sure love to see some of the older phenethylamines and tryptamines and such run against at least those same ones too, it really would be pretty interesting to see how the consistency holds up especially like for instance as you move down the line from methyl to ethyl to propyl and so on and especially in both directions individually and together....
I would definitely agree with everything you have to say here, despite how much we still try to bridge the gap anyway. Most of this I think is mostly just still a matter to ponder at the moment, but I will address the last thing you said really quick because we actually have been gaining a lot more insight into that as of late too....
At the moment, all of us who have actively been thinking about our psychedelic and general drug preferences are honestly pretty distinct in that regard. Lambda thinks that DOB is probably her current favorite psychedelic, but Delta doesn't care that much for it other than thinking it's objectively interesting and useful for us as a whole, I definitely really enjoyed it and would like to do it again but it wasn't the trip we've had that really blew me away the most yet and I'm still kind of trying to form an opinion overall, and Omicron hasn't even really bothered thinking about compared to some of other substances we've been doing lately. Zeta likes the DOB but is even more interested in exploring more of the nutmeg essential oil for similar reasons to the DOB but just liking other things about it even better that mostly relate to the hallucinogenic effects and she thinks it may be her favorite or at least most promising so far, whereas Omicron also thinks it's probably her favorite so far, but for entirely different reasons instead related to its more MDMA-like behavioral effects. Delta so far is in love with 4-AcO-MALT and less so compared to 4-HO-MPT whereas Lambda is currently feeling the opposite, and I'd gladly take either personally! We also recently realized that while a lot of us who have been at the front for a lot of our general psychedelic exploring over the years were kind of unimpressed with 2C-I, Rho absolutely loved it and would be super excited to get it again, and she's also one of the most excited in exploring 2C-EF now for that reason too, while Delta is also excited for the 2C-EF because she prefers 2C-C and is also excited for how it might be more similar to DOB (than to tryptamines anyway) but with a significantly shorter duration, and Zeta also is interested in the DOB connection but not as much for the duration but simply because she's starting to realize that she really likes phenethylamines possibly the most in general.
The bottom line? Yeah, we're all enormously different here in terms of our drug preferences. I'm sure it does help us a LOT in terms of gaining more insight into these kinds of things than other people might have, but at the same time, it's obviously more limited too because we all use the same 5-HT2A receptors and have the same brain and body distribution of these chemicals as they flow through us and that kind of stuff, and as much as we are like different people, in other ways we're still more like different parts of one people, so it's really hard to say how exactly it does relate to what others would feel between two entirely separate human beings.... We do, for instance, all see the exact same geometric visuals layered over the external world, and we so far also think that hallucinations that are more external like deliriants are known for (whether or not they are literally deliriant hallucinations) are also shared between us, but we've also suspected and now since taking the 5-MeO-MiPT especially have more direct evidence that when we have a "breakthrough" style inner hallucinogenic journey, that is genuinely experienced individually by us one at a time and not shared afterward unless we try to project an image of the memory into our shared headspace, and of course that's still just not the same as us actually all going through it together. So, we're kind of all over the place on this.... I don't really have a good way to conclude that thought either, just wanted to provide a bit more insight into that situation as it is. I think in different ways it probably both is and isn't relevant to these sorts of interpersonal differences in experience and preference.
Heh.... We actually used to specifically describe phenethylamines as more "spiritual" until we decided that that word was much less useful or clear than words like "stimulating" and "dissociating" so I suppose it's still a matter of preference. ? For the record, at the time we would say that about phenethylamines, we were also saying that tryptamines felt to be the more "human" of them. Again, it's all a matter of preference and there's nothing wrong with viewing it the way you do, but phenethylamines just don't feel any less complex or meaningful than tryptamines to me, just different. I personally find that one of the main differences is that with phenethylamines we just need to provide some input into the experience to really get more out of it, whereas tryptamines provide more of the input for us. This makes the tryptamines easier to go deep on but it makes the phenethylamines more malleable in my opinion, which I think is an incredibly useful and rich quality on its own. When we do go out of our way to make something of the phenethylamine experience, I frankly probably couldn't tell them apart from tryptamine experiences except in the most superficial of ways like duration and onset time and some geometric visual elements. We had easily one of our deepest and richest experiences of any psychedelic ever on 2C-C, and while that was with nitrous oxide mixed in, we've done the same thing on nearly every tryptamine we've ever used without it reaching the same level of significance even once, that was the top nitrous oxide-involved experience period for sure.
That's very interesting.... I'm curious, do you feel like there is a huge distinction between different classes of tryptamines? I honestly don't relatively speaking, not any more than I've noticed between different phenethylamines anyway. Within the class, and just based on the very, very little experience I have actually being able to compare and contrast these different types of phenethylamines, they seemed pretty obviously different to me. 2C-B, 2C-C, and 2C-I all things considered felt extremely similar to one another in comparison to 2C-E, which has some superficial visual similarities but employed them in a still unique and much deeper way and had a totally different headspace, body high, body load, and duration. Honestly I'm not sure I could say they were very similar at all in the grand scheme of things.... But, 2C-E is still one of those ones known for being more unique anyway, so it's hard to say with certainty. We haven't tried 2C-P yet but we do have a small sample to work with so I'll be looking forward to seeing how the comparison holds up.
I will say, while it's across tail substitutions, and there are obviously some big differences between these two, some things about 4C-D reminded us a lot of DOB. DOC honestly had certain things a lot more in common with 2C-E than 2C-C though, I kind of think moving into amphetamine territory and beyond seems to somewhat bridge the gap between the more unique halogenated phenethylamines and the more traditional "tryptamine-like" style we're used to getting from mushrooms and LSD, which I would also say about 2C-E compared to the others. DOB was honestly so tryptamine-like for us it was shocking, that was definitely one of the heaviest trips we've ever had....
(By the way, I know you asked about that before in the PM and we way left that and everything else hanging.... I don't mean this to be an excuse but Zeta was actually the one typing that and she just recently re-emerged for any significant amount of time after figuring some shit out on the 5-MeO-MiPT. We'd like to get back to that conversation too but have a lot of backlogged conversations we're still trying to catch up on in general.)
I'm wondering, does taste bother you?
Honestly, weird chemicals are going to smell weird.... That's just my perspective on it. I've never had a research chemical that smelled like anything I would ever be willing to ingest for any other reason. Where do you draw the line?
You threw away the MET because of the smell too? That... blows my mind, honestly. Are you expecting these things to smell like flowers? That's money down the drain for an unconfirmed hunch.... I mean, I get wanting to be cautious, but how do you know that's not just legitimately how it smells?
Well, anyway, we haven't taken MET orally yet but we absolutely will, probably very quickly after we start tripping again. We recently were gifted a small sampling of multiple novel phenethylamine and amphetamine psychedelics and have made a promise to prioritize them in return when we do get back to stuff, but since they're all longer-lasting trips from the same class we think we're probably going to go back and forth between them and oral base tryptamines every other trip to avoid tolerance. We have a lot to try that way still but MET is pretty high up on the list, may be the first actually since MPT was so great that way. We actually recently just lucked into some DMT too which we will also eventually be taking orally for the first time as part of all this.
Glad you think so too, and my thoughts exactly. It seems to me like that all could be a lot easier to understand through this lens... though, again, there could still be a million other reasons too.
This makes me incredibly interested, even more than I already was, to see what some of those alkyl DOx molecules are like myself... since, as I said before, we actually do get some similarities specifically between 2C-E, DOB, and DOC. Would you say anything similar or do you still find the halogens and alkyls pretty different even in cross DOx-2C-x comparisons too?
Will that be the highest dosage reported yet? I feel like it would.... Definitely looking forward to what you'll have to say about it!
Out of curiosity, which of them have you taken orally? 2C-I actually was a little bit inconsistent for us.... 2C-C was pretty firm though.
Looking forward to what you'll have to say about it too! ☺
Thanks for that thorough and enlightening post, Zeta.
I'm happy that you found it to be so, and thanks for saying so too.
Now, I just woke up and I can feel Kappa coming back out thinking about those other responses in here so let's get this back on track....
Kappa:
That's how it often happens by the way, another little fun fact.... The switches generally happen on their own but they're usually pretty obviously correlated to we're doing or what's going on, like it seems still in some way related to how our brain organizes our behavior as we switch through different tasks and moods with some similarity to how it would in someone without DID. "We" were thinking about getting back to these responses finally but I was the one who typed the post they were responding to so I was thinking about it the most and voila, here I am to type them out. I can still hear Zeta replaying what she typed before in the back of our head too like people do but she's slowly sinking away again. Anyway, just a little more insight, let's really get to this now....
Glad you think so, that's how I felt about it at least.
And yeah, I've seen a lot of evidence that there are a number of different functional variants, but so, so few studies actually testing the differences between them; I wonder how different of a picture we would have of certain psychedelic functional activities if they actually took the time to catalogue all the most common ones and tested each and every one of them every time they did those studies?That's incredibly fascinating about the NBOMes and does indeed seem to pretty much prove my point here to some extent at least. I don't suppose you have any idea what that study was? I might have to go looking for it myself even if you don't because it sounds very interesting, a good proof-of-concept.... NBOMes are... nice? of course but I'd sure love to see some of the older phenethylamines and tryptamines and such run against at least those same ones too, it really would be pretty interesting to see how the consistency holds up especially like for instance as you move down the line from methyl to ethyl to propyl and so on and especially in both directions individually and together....
I would definitely agree with everything you have to say here, despite how much we still try to bridge the gap anyway. Most of this I think is mostly just still a matter to ponder at the moment, but I will address the last thing you said really quick because we actually have been gaining a lot more insight into that as of late too....
At the moment, all of us who have actively been thinking about our psychedelic and general drug preferences are honestly pretty distinct in that regard. Lambda thinks that DOB is probably her current favorite psychedelic, but Delta doesn't care that much for it other than thinking it's objectively interesting and useful for us as a whole, I definitely really enjoyed it and would like to do it again but it wasn't the trip we've had that really blew me away the most yet and I'm still kind of trying to form an opinion overall, and Omicron hasn't even really bothered thinking about compared to some of other substances we've been doing lately. Zeta likes the DOB but is even more interested in exploring more of the nutmeg essential oil for similar reasons to the DOB but just liking other things about it even better that mostly relate to the hallucinogenic effects and she thinks it may be her favorite or at least most promising so far, whereas Omicron also thinks it's probably her favorite so far, but for entirely different reasons instead related to its more MDMA-like behavioral effects. Delta so far is in love with 4-AcO-MALT and less so compared to 4-HO-MPT whereas Lambda is currently feeling the opposite, and I'd gladly take either personally! We also recently realized that while a lot of us who have been at the front for a lot of our general psychedelic exploring over the years were kind of unimpressed with 2C-I, Rho absolutely loved it and would be super excited to get it again, and she's also one of the most excited in exploring 2C-EF now for that reason too, while Delta is also excited for the 2C-EF because she prefers 2C-C and is also excited for how it might be more similar to DOB (than to tryptamines anyway) but with a significantly shorter duration, and Zeta also is interested in the DOB connection but not as much for the duration but simply because she's starting to realize that she really likes phenethylamines possibly the most in general.
The bottom line? Yeah, we're all enormously different here in terms of our drug preferences. I'm sure it does help us a LOT in terms of gaining more insight into these kinds of things than other people might have, but at the same time, it's obviously more limited too because we all use the same 5-HT2A receptors and have the same brain and body distribution of these chemicals as they flow through us and that kind of stuff, and as much as we are like different people, in other ways we're still more like different parts of one people, so it's really hard to say how exactly it does relate to what others would feel between two entirely separate human beings.... We do, for instance, all see the exact same geometric visuals layered over the external world, and we so far also think that hallucinations that are more external like deliriants are known for (whether or not they are literally deliriant hallucinations) are also shared between us, but we've also suspected and now since taking the 5-MeO-MiPT especially have more direct evidence that when we have a "breakthrough" style inner hallucinogenic journey, that is genuinely experienced individually by us one at a time and not shared afterward unless we try to project an image of the memory into our shared headspace, and of course that's still just not the same as us actually all going through it together. So, we're kind of all over the place on this.... I don't really have a good way to conclude that thought either, just wanted to provide a bit more insight into that situation as it is. I think in different ways it probably both is and isn't relevant to these sorts of interpersonal differences in experience and preference.
Heh.... We actually used to specifically describe phenethylamines as more "spiritual" until we decided that that word was much less useful or clear than words like "stimulating" and "dissociating" so I suppose it's still a matter of preference. ? For the record, at the time we would say that about phenethylamines, we were also saying that tryptamines felt to be the more "human" of them. Again, it's all a matter of preference and there's nothing wrong with viewing it the way you do, but phenethylamines just don't feel any less complex or meaningful than tryptamines to me, just different. I personally find that one of the main differences is that with phenethylamines we just need to provide some input into the experience to really get more out of it, whereas tryptamines provide more of the input for us. This makes the tryptamines easier to go deep on but it makes the phenethylamines more malleable in my opinion, which I think is an incredibly useful and rich quality on its own. When we do go out of our way to make something of the phenethylamine experience, I frankly probably couldn't tell them apart from tryptamine experiences except in the most superficial of ways like duration and onset time and some geometric visual elements. We had easily one of our deepest and richest experiences of any psychedelic ever on 2C-C, and while that was with nitrous oxide mixed in, we've done the same thing on nearly every tryptamine we've ever used without it reaching the same level of significance even once, that was the top nitrous oxide-involved experience period for sure.
That's very interesting.... I'm curious, do you feel like there is a huge distinction between different classes of tryptamines? I honestly don't relatively speaking, not any more than I've noticed between different phenethylamines anyway. Within the class, and just based on the very, very little experience I have actually being able to compare and contrast these different types of phenethylamines, they seemed pretty obviously different to me. 2C-B, 2C-C, and 2C-I all things considered felt extremely similar to one another in comparison to 2C-E, which has some superficial visual similarities but employed them in a still unique and much deeper way and had a totally different headspace, body high, body load, and duration. Honestly I'm not sure I could say they were very similar at all in the grand scheme of things.... But, 2C-E is still one of those ones known for being more unique anyway, so it's hard to say with certainty. We haven't tried 2C-P yet but we do have a small sample to work with so I'll be looking forward to seeing how the comparison holds up.
I will say, while it's across tail substitutions, and there are obviously some big differences between these two, some things about 4C-D reminded us a lot of DOB. DOC honestly had certain things a lot more in common with 2C-E than 2C-C though, I kind of think moving into amphetamine territory and beyond seems to somewhat bridge the gap between the more unique halogenated phenethylamines and the more traditional "tryptamine-like" style we're used to getting from mushrooms and LSD, which I would also say about 2C-E compared to the others. DOB was honestly so tryptamine-like for us it was shocking, that was definitely one of the heaviest trips we've ever had....
(By the way, I know you asked about that before in the PM and we way left that and everything else hanging.... I don't mean this to be an excuse but Zeta was actually the one typing that and she just recently re-emerged for any significant amount of time after figuring some shit out on the 5-MeO-MiPT. We'd like to get back to that conversation too but have a lot of backlogged conversations we're still trying to catch up on in general.)
I'm wondering, does taste bother you?
Honestly, weird chemicals are going to smell weird.... That's just my perspective on it. I've never had a research chemical that smelled like anything I would ever be willing to ingest for any other reason. Where do you draw the line?
You threw away the MET because of the smell too? That... blows my mind, honestly. Are you expecting these things to smell like flowers? That's money down the drain for an unconfirmed hunch.... I mean, I get wanting to be cautious, but how do you know that's not just legitimately how it smells?
Well, anyway, we haven't taken MET orally yet but we absolutely will, probably very quickly after we start tripping again. We recently were gifted a small sampling of multiple novel phenethylamine and amphetamine psychedelics and have made a promise to prioritize them in return when we do get back to stuff, but since they're all longer-lasting trips from the same class we think we're probably going to go back and forth between them and oral base tryptamines every other trip to avoid tolerance. We have a lot to try that way still but MET is pretty high up on the list, may be the first actually since MPT was so great that way. We actually recently just lucked into some DMT too which we will also eventually be taking orally for the first time as part of all this.
Glad you think so too, and my thoughts exactly.
It seems to me like that all could be a lot easier to understand through this lens... though, again, there could still be a million other reasons too.This makes me incredibly interested, even more than I already was, to see what some of those alkyl DOx molecules are like myself... since, as I said before, we actually do get some similarities specifically between 2C-E, DOB, and DOC. Would you say anything similar or do you still find the halogens and alkyls pretty different even in cross DOx-2C-x comparisons too?
Will that be the highest dosage reported yet? I feel like it would.... Definitely looking forward to what you'll have to say about it!
Out of curiosity, which of them have you taken orally? 2C-I actually was a little bit inconsistent for us.... 2C-C was pretty firm though.
Looking forward to what you'll have to say about it too! ☺
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Well I'd say that for both the 2C-Xs and the DOXs, I find the halogens to be more body-present than the alkyls. However, in the 2C-Xs I find the alkyls to be much more classically psychedelic and mentally heavy than the halogens, whereas with the DOXs, by and large, I have found the halogens to be more classically psychedelic and mentally heavy in addition to more body-heavy. The halogenated DOXs seem like just flat-out stronger and more full-spectrum psychedelics than the alkyls for me. Whereas with the 2C-Xs, the same is not true.
cosmic charlie
Bluelight Crew
Just received my sample when i got home late last night and I'm working today. But will be most likely be taking the first trial at 6-7mgs tommorow and finally get my chance to experience this one. Hope that is a big enough dose to have a decent effect off this dose if it needs to be raised the following week I'll do so. I will write something up and post it the following day.
I'm not going to jump in with like 12mgs from the rip because lately I have seemed more sensitive to psych's in general. Some of the reports make it seem like its pretty potent so I'm sure I'll get something out of the lower amount. Gotta be real conservative with this one, who knows when it will be out in the wild again.
I'm so excited right now :D
#StaySwirly
I'm not going to jump in with like 12mgs from the rip because lately I have seemed more sensitive to psych's in general. Some of the reports make it seem like its pretty potent so I'm sure I'll get something out of the lower amount. Gotta be real conservative with this one, who knows when it will be out in the wild again.
I'm so excited right now :D
#StaySwirly
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Kaleida
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Kappa:
That is absolutely fascinating, especially since it matches our incredibly phenethylamine-amateur observations so far.... I'm going to have to do a lot of thinking about that. Thanks for the clarification.
Awesome, can't wait to hear how it goes for you! ☺
Ours should be arriving probably today too.... Excited to take it six months from now. ?
That is absolutely fascinating, especially since it matches our incredibly phenethylamine-amateur observations so far.... I'm going to have to do a lot of thinking about that. Thanks for the clarification.
Awesome, can't wait to hear how it goes for you! ☺
Ours should be arriving probably today too.... Excited to take it six months from now. ?
cj187
Bluelighter
Sorry, no, I don't have a link to it and I don't remember what the title was.
I feel like there's a more noticeable difference between the different classes of tryptamines than than there is between the alkylated and halogenated 2Cs. It could just be that I have more experience with tryptamines so I'm better at recognizind their subtleties. But I have noticed that the 2C-T series has a distinct style that is different from the other 2Cs.
I don't expect chemicals to smell good, but the MET clearly didn't smell like other tryptamines, it smelled like chlorine. It had to have been an impurity. I know that you can't determine how safe something is based on your senses, but it's better than nothing. It's better to not take a drug because of a hunch than to assume that everything is completely harmless unless proven otherwise. It blows my mind that you don't understand why someone would choose not to ingest random strange smelling chemicals. Research chemicals are not pharmaceutical grade drugs. You're putting yourself in danger when you ingest them, even if you get them form a vendor who's considered reliable.
I don't put to much thought into how things taste because even a completely pure tryptamine or phenethylamine will have a nasty bitter taste. There's no way you would notice the presence of an impurity.
How would you classify 2C-EF? Would you say if feels like an alkyl, a halogen, or in between?
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
It feels mostly like a halogen I think but the visuals are different. It reminds me the most of 2C-C so far.
cj187
Bluelighter
It reminded me of 2C-C too. But I also feel like there are similarities between 2C-C and 2C-P, which is what makes me say there isn't a clear distinction between the two classes.
Kaleida
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Kappa:
Good to know. We haven't taken any of the 2C-Ts myself yet, so I can't comment on that.... One of these days we'll get around to our 2C-T-2 though.
It doesn't have to have been an impurity, that's kind of my point. Smell is enormously complex and tiny molecular changes can and easily do change what a chemical smells like. You didn't just not ingest it, you threw it away; that's what blows my mind. Why not just hold on to it until you learn with more confidence what the chemical is actually supposed to smell like? Your comment about research chemicals not being pharmaceuticals has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
The same is true of their smell.... You haven't given me any evidence that you're not just completely assuming what total novel chemicals should or shouldn't smell like.
Do whatever you feel comfortable with, I just think it's an odd place to draw the line.
Good to know. We haven't taken any of the 2C-Ts myself yet, so I can't comment on that.... One of these days we'll get around to our 2C-T-2 though.
It doesn't have to have been an impurity, that's kind of my point. Smell is enormously complex and tiny molecular changes can and easily do change what a chemical smells like. You didn't just not ingest it, you threw it away; that's what blows my mind. Why not just hold on to it until you learn with more confidence what the chemical is actually supposed to smell like? Your comment about research chemicals not being pharmaceuticals has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
The same is true of their smell.... You haven't given me any evidence that you're not just completely assuming what total novel chemicals should or shouldn't smell like.
Do whatever you feel comfortable with, I just think it's an odd place to draw the line.
cj187
Bluelighter
It's not impossible that MET could have a completely disinct smell that's nothing like other tryptamines, but it's still logical to assume it would smell similar to them. And I actually know for a fact that MET does smell like other tryptamines because I had another batch before that didn't smell weird. So I'm 100% certain that my MET contained a weird smelling impurity. Maybe it was harmless, but the only way to find out would be to spend 100s of dollars having it analyzed.
Kaleida
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Kappa:
I personally wouldn't go as far as to say that it's logical to just assume that it would smell similar to other tryptamines, but I can accept that you wouldn't want to use MET that smelled really funky compared to another batch you had, that makes sense to me.
I kind of want to say more but it's really not important. But for the record, there's no such thing as a reliable vendor in my mind, and I'm not just talking about drugs. Business is business.
I personally wouldn't go as far as to say that it's logical to just assume that it would smell similar to other tryptamines, but I can accept that you wouldn't want to use MET that smelled really funky compared to another batch you had, that makes sense to me.
I kind of want to say more but it's really not important. But for the record, there's no such thing as a reliable vendor in my mind, and I'm not just talking about drugs. Business is business.
lamanogaucha
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@ Kaleida - Your therapist is top-notch; you're handling DID extremely well. (y)
@ Everyone - The hypothesis regarding the increase of structural distance from natural neurotransmitter structure correlating to the increase of objective and subjective variability/unpredictability could be correct. This is an area of psychedelic research that should be scientifically addressed.
Related to that, the only genuinely challenging psychedelic experiences that I've had have been with 2C-T-7 and 4-HO-DPT, both of which were mentioned by Xorkoth.
I've taken 35mg of 2C-T-7 about twenty times and twice it has unexpectedly turned on me. In both cases, the issue was subjective (i.e. in my mind).
As for 4-HO-DPT, I've taken it only twice (thus far), yet the second time landed me in the hospital with my heart rate, blood pressure and glucose level messed up, particularly the last.
The first time, I took 110mg and had an excellent experience. The second time, I took 120mg, and my body freaked out (objective), which resulted in considerable anxiety (subjective), which in turn resulted in further physical malfunctioning and a visit to the emergency room for treatment (both objective).
@ Everyone - The hypothesis regarding the increase of structural distance from natural neurotransmitter structure correlating to the increase of objective and subjective variability/unpredictability could be correct. This is an area of psychedelic research that should be scientifically addressed.
Related to that, the only genuinely challenging psychedelic experiences that I've had have been with 2C-T-7 and 4-HO-DPT, both of which were mentioned by Xorkoth.
I've taken 35mg of 2C-T-7 about twenty times and twice it has unexpectedly turned on me. In both cases, the issue was subjective (i.e. in my mind).
As for 4-HO-DPT, I've taken it only twice (thus far), yet the second time landed me in the hospital with my heart rate, blood pressure and glucose level messed up, particularly the last.
The first time, I took 110mg and had an excellent experience. The second time, I took 120mg, and my body freaked out (objective), which resulted in considerable anxiety (subjective), which in turn resulted in further physical malfunctioning and a visit to the emergency room for treatment (both objective).
Kaleida
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Zeta:
Thank you, lamanogaucha, that is very much appreciated. We've been feeling a little down today as we are now ten days into complete sobriety after a nearly solid seven years of intoxication and starting to notice that we're feeling a bit nitpicky and hot-tempered again as we often do when attempting such, probably mostly from quitting cannabis specifically as we had essentially turned it into our emotional safety net, and your comment raised our spirits back up again.
Our therapist is awesome. She has a lot of experience working with people with identity issues in general and is a very open-minded person that we feel comfortable opening up to about pretty much anything. She even likes listening to our psychedelic stories; once we went into a session still vaguely altered from an overnight trip and she let us stay and continue speaking our minds for an extra half an hour without any added charge. In this way we are, again, very fortunate compared to many of those in a similar position as ourselves.
Your anecdotes about 2C-T-7 and 4-HO-DPT are very much appreciated as well. In addition to the interesting considerations as to how they may relate to the aforementioned theories, and especially as how that may also relate to what I'm about to say, I must say I am also a little surprised and (morbidly) intrigued to hear about your emergency response to 4-HO-DPT specifically, as this is the first I'm hearing of such a response to it. Not to be the one to drag this thread too far off topic once more, but you would be willing to expand on that just a bit, such as your route of administration and how the hospital staff handled it and what they had to say about it?
Thank you, lamanogaucha, that is very much appreciated.
We've been feeling a little down today as we are now ten days into complete sobriety after a nearly solid seven years of intoxication and starting to notice that we're feeling a bit nitpicky and hot-tempered again as we often do when attempting such, probably mostly from quitting cannabis specifically as we had essentially turned it into our emotional safety net, and your comment raised our spirits back up again.Our therapist is awesome.
She has a lot of experience working with people with identity issues in general and is a very open-minded person that we feel comfortable opening up to about pretty much anything. She even likes listening to our psychedelic stories; once we went into a session still vaguely altered from an overnight trip and she let us stay and continue speaking our minds for an extra half an hour without any added charge. In this way we are, again, very fortunate compared to many of those in a similar position as ourselves.Your anecdotes about 2C-T-7 and 4-HO-DPT are very much appreciated as well. In addition to the interesting considerations as to how they may relate to the aforementioned theories, and especially as how that may also relate to what I'm about to say, I must say I am also a little surprised and (morbidly) intrigued to hear about your emergency response to 4-HO-DPT specifically, as this is the first I'm hearing of such a response to it. Not to be the one to drag this thread too far off topic once more, but you would be willing to expand on that just a bit, such as your route of administration and how the hospital staff handled it and what they had to say about it?
lamanogaucha
Bluelighter
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- Feb 4, 2012
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- 583
I'm glad to hear that my little comment helped you feel better, Kaleida. Keep up the great work.
Here's the information that you requested: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/the-big-dandy-4-ho-dpt-thread.430916/post-14544544.
If you have more commentary or questions, post there; I'll be happy to respond.
Here's the information that you requested: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/the-big-dandy-4-ho-dpt-thread.430916/post-14544544.
If you have more commentary or questions, post there; I'll be happy to respond.
Kaleida
Bluelight Crew
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Kappa:
Attention! I come with an urgent message for all explorers of 2C-EF.
cj187's experience was NOT an isolated event. We have a cousin who is recently getting into research chemical experiences who we've agreed to share a small supply of our 2C-EF with even though we can't take it ourselves yet. He told us last night that he took 10 mg orally a couple hours (or maybe an hour and a half or so after finishing) a large meal and experienced NOTHING, nada, zilch, zero effects whatsoever. If you treasure your 2C-EF, take it on an empty stomach. Until proven otherwise I would be highly suspicious that something about having a stomach full of food when orally dosing significantly interferes with the experience developing in one or more ways.
That is all for now.
Attention! I come with an urgent message for all explorers of 2C-EF.
cj187's experience was NOT an isolated event. We have a cousin who is recently getting into research chemical experiences who we've agreed to share a small supply of our 2C-EF with even though we can't take it ourselves yet. He told us last night that he took 10 mg orally a couple hours (or maybe an hour and a half or so after finishing) a large meal and experienced NOTHING, nada, zilch, zero effects whatsoever. If you treasure your 2C-EF, take it on an empty stomach. Until proven otherwise I would be highly suspicious that something about having a stomach full of food when orally dosing significantly interferes with the experience developing in one or more ways.
That is all for now.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Thanks Kaleida. I'd say either that, or due to individual metabolic factors, some people do not get much from it. In general I find that taking psychedelics orally after a large meal is always a bad idea, as it, at the very least, delays absorption and makes the resulting experience much weaker (because of basically producing a time-release effect).
Kaleida
Bluelight Crew
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- Messages
- 2,806
Kappa:
That's generally been our experience too, but we've literally never had a full dose just not do anything at all period from having a full stomach, it's just been delayed and weaker. It felt worth mentioning, anyway. I could absolutely see metabolic factors playing a role as always too, this just seemed like the more easily measurable data point for the moment. Someone out there may be willing to prove that a strong trip can still be had on a full stomach, but not I with the small and costly amount we have!
That's generally been our experience too, but we've literally never had a full dose just not do anything at all period from having a full stomach, it's just been delayed and weaker. It felt worth mentioning, anyway. I could absolutely see metabolic factors playing a role as always too, this just seemed like the more easily measurable data point for the moment. Someone out there may be willing to prove that a strong trip can still be had on a full stomach, but not I with the small and costly amount we have!
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Haha yeah, I'm not gonna try it personally.
Img_9999
Bluelighter
In my experience all drugs are affected by stomach content when taken orally, but phenethylamines in particular seem to be specifically affected. Probably due to their intrinsic absorption kinetics. Most of them take a while to come-up any way.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
One thing I find interesting about 2C-EF is that it really doesn't hurt much when you snort it. I mean it might if you snorted a lot of it, but every 2C-X I have tried snorting (2C-B, 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-E, and 2C-T-2) feels like I got kicked in the face after getting a power drill to my nasal passages, even in small amounts. Whereas 2C-EF is a very mild burn that you can easily ignore. I snorted 3mg yesterday for band practice, honestly because I was really anxious pretty bad about some stuff and I had a hunch it would help. It helped a lot, it took me right out of it and I had a great night. It was sub-visual level but the mood boost was very nice and the feeling in my body was great. Again, it reminded me of 2C-C, but less edgy and more comfortable in the body. 2C-EF feels so natural, it's probably as or more comfortable in the body and mind as any other psychedelic I can think of (more than the vast majority of them). In fact very few psychedelics are specifically anxiolytic for me.