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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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alasdairm said:
trump fans get super bent when they feel they're equated with racists. not all people who oppose trump behave like this.
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This is two different statements.

Would you get bent if someone claimed Scots are racist? Likely not, as you're more self aware (and, aware of idiots) than to let it get to you. But it is still infuriating to be cast under such a blanket and labeled as such with no regard to you, specifically, as a person and what you do or do not believe beyond supporting Trump. It's a shame many Trump supporters can't see beyond the blanket statement and understand it doesn't apply to them specifically as you can. How do you react to accusations and negative labels put upon you, when you know they are untrue?

I get your point, not all Trump supporters are racist (they are assuming the label is being applied to them as it is cast over all Trump Supporters), but it remains a generic group being pointed to, and it is up to the individual to believe it is being applied to them, as opposed to the group of Trump supporters who are, in fact, racist.

There is a difference between blanket labeling Trump supporters (large group, not person specific) as racist, and anti-Trump persons specifically being caught exercising true violence against Trump supporters. It's not a generic group statement, it is video evidenced acts of violence for nothing more than political orientation. There is no room for a person assuming, or dodging, the accusation of being bad like the blanket 'racist' label for Trump supporters. It is a specific fact, an instance of uncalled for violence, committed by a clearly identified anti-Trump person upon a clearly identified Trump supporter. Not just here, but in many recently recorded episodes. Interesting point, you aren't seeing or hearing of Trump supporters committing such violence (don't point to Charlottesville, that was a different group).

There is a difference.
 
i'm saying it's either a problem or it's not.

i do agree with you that soso78 was pointing to a generic group and called it out (as i would call it out if the shoe was on the other foot).

alasdair
 
I wonder how supposed supporters of the elderly and those same supporters of Trump feel about his recent $1.5 trillion dollar cut to social security, medicare and medicaid.
 
re the Trump supporter being pushed to the ground in the UK, here's a bit of that often-neglected thing called context...

the old boy grabbed a protestor's placard as he didn't agree with the protest...the protestors tried to wrestle it back from him...the old fells lost his footing, stumbled over, and was helped back up by the protestors

context - it helps!
 
He doesn’t lose his footing there’s a crowd of people steamrollering him to the ground.

Ali what does the choice of language reveal? he is a little old man and I never said beat up. In fact I said he wasn’t beaten up.
 
We sometimes see what we want to see, what suits our agenda

EDIT I believe Alasdair is referring to the language used by the media to report the incident (particularly the right-wing media, y' know "rabid lefties kick fuck out of helpless old british war hero" type language
 
^ somewhat but i was mainly referring to soso78's choice to describe him as a "little old man". is he old? sure - he certainly appears elderly and older than those haranguing him. is he little? hardly. he's at least as tall as the main person shoving him and clearly taller than some of the others. he's also hardly frail - quite stout indeed.

the word choice appears deliberately exaggerated to make the victim (and don't get me wrong - he absolutely was the victim of an assault) appear smaller and more helpless to, i assume, exaggerate the outrage.

it was pete556 who used the phrase "beat up" but that appears tangential to this specific instance. but maybe he's also trying to exaggerate. this guy was clearly manhandled to the ground. nobody was beaten up.

alasdair
 
Whatever Ali, he was a little old man shoved to the ground and that’s all there is to it.
Don’t try and justify it by saying he’s “stout”
 
ageingpartyfiend said:
We sometimes see what we want to see, what suits our agenda

EDIT I believe Alasdair is referring to the language used by the media to report the incident (particularly the right-wing media, y' know "rabid lefties kick fuck out of helpless old british war hero" type language
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Let Ali speak for himself, you believe Ali was referring to the media but he wasn’t.
 
Soso78 said:
Whatever Ali, he was a little old man shoved to the ground and that’s all there is to it.
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that's not all there is to it. it's subjective and open to discussion

Soso78 said:
Don’t try and justify it by saying he’s “stout”
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don't try and make it seem worse than it was by describing him as a "little old man"...

alasdair
 
It says a lot about the sort of man you are that you think he’s not a little old man.
 
alasdairm said:
president trump has talked about the importance of the rule of law.

from the past couple of days:

'I think I’d take it': In exclusive interview, Trump says he would listen if foreigners offered dirt on opponents
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Is there any sort of double standard at play here when the DNC sought the Steele dossier on Trump? You and I agree two wrongs don't make something right, but to date Trump is not the one to have actually sought and obtained such materials, though others have done so against him. For those who have done so, where is the justice, the adherence to the rule of law?
 
alasdairm said:
i'm saying it's either a problem or it's not.
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Perhaps, but your choice of words is obviously selective. You frame it as one side (Trump supporters) being the ones causing a problem, which isn't the only case. You state "Trump fans get bent" meaning they act poorly, and then put anti-trumpers in a better light with "not all who oppose trump behave like this"

It can equally be said "Anti-Trumpers label every Trump supporter as racist. Not all Trump supporters are racist." But you don't seem to acknowledge this side of it. Instead, you present it as 'a problem or not' with Trump supporters only.

The note in closing that "Trump is a douche, and so is the guy who pushed him down" feeds your need to slam Trump at every opportunity (well within your rights and opinion) while staying in the social acceptance zone by condemning this 'pusher'. But there is no recognition or acknowledgement that the "old" man did nothing wrong and didn't earn any such attention, or to my comments that we are repeatedly seeing where anti-Trumpers are the ones given to violence rather than Trump supporters. Is this not a problem? It is in my eyes, and is the point of speaking on this instance at all.

alasdairm said:
selective outrage is something...
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Indeed.
 
TheLoveBandit said:
It can equally be said "Anti-Trumpers label every Trump supporter as racist. Not all Trump supporters are racist." But you don't seem to acknowledge this side of it.
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i totally acknowledge it. i have never said - or even implied - that all trump supporters are racist.

TheLoveBandit said:
The note in closing that "Trump is a douche, and so is the guy who pushed him down" feeds your need to slam Trump at every opportunity (well within your rights and opinion) while staying in the social acceptance zone by condemning this 'pusher'.
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one man's "staying in the social acceptance zone" is another's balance.

TheLoveBandit said:
But there is no recognition or acknowledgement that the "old" man did nothing wrong...
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i didn't see the events leading up to it but i acknowledge that he doesn't appear to have done anything wrong.

alasdair
 
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