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Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2019ish

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cduggles

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Colorado shooting: One student killed, 8 others injured

A school shooting not far from Columbine High School left one student dead and eight others injured on Tuesday, authorities said.

Two suspects were apprehended after the shooting at the STEM School Highlands Ranch, which covers K-12,Douglas County Sheriff Tony Spurlock said. About 1,850 students attend the school, according to its website.

The suspects are believed to be students at the school, Spurlock said. One is an adult male and one is believed to be a juvenile.

The incident rattled an area that just marked the 20th anniversary of the deadly shooting at Columbine High School, about seven miles away from the STEM school. Douglas County Schools were also closed April 17 as authorities scrambled to find an armed Florida teenthey said was infatuated with the Columbine massacre. The woman, authorities said, made threats before she traveled to Colorado, where she died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

"Tragically, this community and those surrounding it know all too well these hateful and horrible acts of violence," the White House said in a statement.

"This is a terrible event," Spurlock said. "This is something that no one wants to have happen in their community."



The shooting started in the high school just before 2 p.m., authorities said. The suspects walked into the school, and "got deep inside the school," engaging students in two separate classrooms, Spurlock said. One student, an 18-year-old male, was killed in the school, according to Deputy Cocha Heyden, a spokeswoman for the sheriff's office.

Almost immediately, the school notified authorities.

190507174017-05-colorado-school-shooting-0507-hugging-large-169.jpg

A community grieves after a mass shooting at the STEM School Highlands Ranch.

"Over the next few minutes, quite a few shots were fired," Douglas County Undersheriff Holly Nicholson-Kluth said.

"As officers were arriving at the school, they could still hear gunshots, and as they were entering the school," Nicholson-Kluth said.

The first sheriff's deputies arrived within two minutes and engaged the suspects, Spurlock said.

Spurlock said officers "did struggle with the suspects to take them into custody."

"We do know that we do not have any other suspects. We have all the people that are involved," Spurlock said. Authorities had initially said they were looking for a possible third suspect.

Authorities are working to obtain search warrants for the suspects' homes and a vehicle found in the parking lot, Spurlock said.

He did not release additional information on the suspects. The two didn't appear to be on law enforcement's radar, according to Spurlock.

A school resource officer was not assigned to the school, but the school has private security, the sheriff said.

Several victims are critical, the sheriff says

Eight students were taken to local hospitals. Several of the students who were shot are in critical condition, the sheriff said. The youngest victim is 15 years old, he said.

Injuries in school shooting
Five patients were being treated at Littleton Adventist Hospital in Littleton, hospital spokeswoman Wendy Forbes told CNN in an email.

One victim was treated and released from Children's Hospital Colorado South Campus in Highlands Ranch, according to Jaime Berg, a spokeswoman.

Two juvenile patients were being treated at the Sky Ridge Medical Center in Lone Tree.

Spurlock said the suspects were not injured.

The STEM School was placed on a lockdown after the shooting, the Douglas County School District said in a tweet. All other Highlands Ranch schools were on a lockout, the tweet said.

The lockout was later lifted for HighlandsRanch schools, the district said.
 
It is definitely tragic what is happening. I can't pretend to know the reasons why it is happening, although it does seem to be a form of desperate trend. I can't blame people for wanting to do something about it, but I don't think the knee-jerk reaction of banning all guns will solve the problem of humans wanting to inflict harm upon other humans.

Considering the potential link between psychiatric drugs and school shootings, or really just psychiatric drugs and violence in adolescence, it seems this desperate trend could be pointing towards an underlying public health crisis.

"According to CCHR an investigation into the link is long overdue when you take into consideration that between 2004 and 2012 the FDA’s safety information and adverse event reporting program, known as MedWatch, received a staggering 14,773 reports of psychiatric drugs causing violent side effects, including 1,531 cases of homicidal ideation/homicide, 3,287 cases of mania, and 8,219 cases of aggression"

Considering the rise of acid attacks in the UK, or other more classic methods of causing harm, like bombs, I'm of the opinion that the solution will involve a humanistic approach to the problem that addresses the underlying mental health issues, as opposed to legislature banning things and creating more punishable offenses.
 
Colorado shooting: One student killed, 8 others injured

Two politicians used the student's mourning as a platform for gun control, and the students walked out chanting "Mental Health". Why T-F do people need to politicize this ahead of addressing the needs of the survivors?

 
Two politicians used the student's mourning as a platform for gun control, and the students walked out chanting "Mental Health". Why T-F do people need to politicize this ahead of addressing the needs of the survivors?



Personally I hate it when people use their kids as political props.

And this is hardly unique to the left or to antigun advocates. Individuals on all sides engage in it.

Giving them placards and dragging them to protests saying shit they neither know nor care about. Encouraging them against their wishes be part of youth protests.

Now hey, if kids wanna protest over something they legitimately believe in, that's great. But far too often I've come away thinking most kids involved in most protests are just pawns for their parents beliefs. Who have decided their kids beliefs on their behalf.

And I think that's wrong.
 
i tend to agree.

but, for some, there's never a right time to have this conversation. there's no single factor and no silver bullet. it is about mental health. and it is about guns.

usa #1! pretty much: Does the U.S. lead the world in mass shootings?

Update, April 1: Lankford published a response to Lott in which he also released his data set. He makes the case that when consistent definitions are used, Lott’s own data confirms Lankford’s findings: The United States has a disproportionate number of public mass shooters — six times — who attack alone. “By definition, firearms are needed for people to commit mass shootings, so in countries where it is easier for dangerous or disturbed individuals to legally purchase firearms—like the United States—there is an increased likelihood of an attack,” Lankford writes.

if we can't talk about this kind of thing in the aftermath of a shooting, it's going to be a while given their frequency...

:(

alasdair
 
Looking deeper, the vigil was sponsored by Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence who did in fact publish an apology




Though one of the Democrats won't back down on it

In a statement, Crow explained it is his job to bring solutions to solve challenging issues.

"It is my job to show up and support my community during times of tragedy. I grieve for what Highlands Ranch and our families have been through. The last few days I have been asked the same question over and over again: What are you doing to stop this from happening?" the Colorado lawmaker said.
"It is my job to take tough questions and offer real solutions. Bottom line, everyone needs to listen to those most impacted by this violence to learn how we can move forward, and that begins with listening to the students of STEM School," he said.
On the day of the shooting, Crow tweeted, "It is not enough to send thoughts and prayers," and, "We must pass common-sense gun violence laws and ensure we are preparing our educators and law enforcement with the tools and resources necessary to create a safe and welcoming environment."

Most would agree hopes and prayers aren't improving the situation. And I get the politician's point - it is his responsibility (and others, including ...uh, everyone?) to do something about it. But decorum seems lost on him.
 
Looking deeper, the vigil was sponsored by Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence who did in fact publish an apology




Though one of the Democrats won't back down on it



Most would agree hopes and prayers aren't improving the situation. And I get the politician's point - it is his responsibility (and others, including ...uh, everyone?) to do something about it. But decorum seems lost on him.

I don't trust the Brady campaign. They're fanatics. They're the antiNRA. They fight for the opposite cause but use just as many underhanded tactics.
 
Very very sad. Precisely why I carry a concealed weapon. Dude would have gotten a bullet through the head, real quick. Unfortunately its because of people like this that give gun owners a bad name (in a sense).
 
When the constitution was written, one could fire a musket maybe 3 times per minute. To say that the historiography of this mess applies to automatic weapons and assault rifles. It's just not possible to say that the "Founding Fathers" would have had any idea of how things would turn out, which in my opinion makes the constitution invalid. I believe the constitution to be completely invalid anyway.

Our "Founding Fathers" had no problem proclaiming that all men are created equal in the eyes of God, yet, it is still okay for us to own human beings. The constitution was an absolute farce from the moment it was written as those who wrote it clearly either had no integrity whatsoever or are simply two-faced. I find it hilarious... HILARIOUS that Americans continue to discuss this document as if it is relevant in any way whatsoever.

Learning History sucks. You inevitably get to a point where you realize all men are dishonest, liars, violent to the death and disregarding of the wants, needs and desires of others.
 
Very very sad. Precisely why I carry a concealed weapon. Dude would have gotten a bullet through the head, real quick. Unfortunately its because of people like this that give gun owners a bad name (in a sense).

But would you though? Where are all you gun owners when these mass shootings happen? Probably hiding under tables with everyone else because the mass panic, the sheer scale of the assault and the desire for self preservation renders you just as helpless as people that don't carry guns. I've never yet heard of some hero stepping in with his concealed weapon to stop an atrocity.

When the constitution was written, one could fire a musket maybe 3 times per minute. To say that the historiography of this mess applies to automatic weapons and assault rifles. It's just not possible to say that the "Founding Fathers" would have had any idea of how things would turn out, which in my opinion makes the constitution invalid. I believe the constitution to be completely invalid anyway.

Our "Founding Fathers" had no problem proclaiming that all men are created equal in the eyes of God, yet, it is still okay for us to own human beings. The constitution was an absolute farce from the moment it was written as those who wrote it clearly either had no integrity whatsoever or are simply two-faced. I find it hilarious... HILARIOUS that Americans continue to discuss this document as if it is relevant in any way whatsoever.

Learning History sucks. You inevitably get to a point where you realize all men are dishonest, liars, violent to the death and disregarding of the wants, needs and desires of others.

Very well said!
 
But would you though? Where are all you gun owners when these mass shootings happen? Probably hiding under tables with everyone else because the mass panic, the sheer scale of the assault and the desire for self preservation renders you just as helpless as people that don't carry guns. I've never yet heard of some hero stepping in with his concealed weapon to stop an atrocity.
The hero in the Virginia beach shooting who rushed the attacker was an unarmed senior student.

I'm certain that 90% of gun owners mistake owning a gun for having balls. It's like they forget which one they were born with and one of them becomes forgotten.
 
But would you though? Where are all you gun owners when these mass shootings happen? Probably hiding under tables with everyone else because the mass panic, the sheer scale of the assault and the desire for self preservation renders you just as helpless as people that don't carry guns. I've never yet heard of some hero stepping in with his concealed weapon to stop an atrocity.



Very well said!
100% I would. I run toward danger. I trained for 4 years with former Special Operations guys (mainly SEALs and SWCC) before joining the Navy with a SEAL contract. In the 4 years, we did physical training, CQB tactics, hand to hand combat, etc. etc. It was like I already completed SEAL training in that amount of time I trained with them. Wanted to be a SEAL since I was 8 (started having seizures and got discharged). That's the type of stuff I wanted to do. I still wanna be in Special Operations, but the military wont accept me, even though my seizures are 100% controlled. After getting discharged (and him leaving the military to "retire"), I did some contracting work with him for about 6 months (this was SEVERAL years). So I have some time down range.

As for "some hero stepping in with his concealed weapon to stop an atrocity", ive personally never had the oppertunity. Cant talk for anyone else though.
 
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I meant to say the Colorado shooting, but looking it up, it looks like the Virginia shooting also had an unarmed student hero at the scene.

Sorry for mixing it up, however, it's difficult to keep up with all these shootings. We have so many, it's getting impossible to keep up with all of them.

With that said, the enthusiastic wanna-be heros can be optimistic that there is a good chance you will someday have that chance to prove your grit! Ya!
 
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