Suboxone dosing PRN

[NadyaMaude]

Hi Everyone,
Last day of 4 years of a pretty mild painkiller addiction (at most 7mg oxy or whatever I could find and not everyday-- hard to get them!) was in Feb, had bad cravings and such, then was induced on 2 mgs of sub and got incredibly sick and higher than any time I used opiates!! Like, we're talking crawling to the toilet sick and higher than a kite. If i hadn't had the best doctor ever, I would have suffered without zofran. ANYWAY my question is, I seem to only be able to tolerate 1/8th of a 2mg film or I get nauseated and heavy feeling in the face. AKA face fatigue, a little high but not in a good way for me. I decided to stop taking this everyday because I felt so shitty on it, and anxious, would have to take a .5 mg xanax a lot of the time to deal with the racing heart. Now, it seems that I only take it when I am feeling like I wish I had some painkillers. ESPECIALLY when I am not busy, or I am bored, especially when I am alone. But now I seem to take it everyday, and wonder if i am just falling into the same thing as I did with the painkillers.... as the GHETTO BOYS would say.... my mind is playing tricks on me! Does anyone else take them just when they feel cravings? PRN sub? Thanks for helping a newbie. I go to AA but no NA meetings close by and I can't bring this stuff up there. Be well...

 

[JessFR]

Well, it certainly does sound to me like the beginning of a pattern of misuse. I've never much heard of subuxone used PRN because you can't really use anything else around the same time without risking precipitated withdrawals.

 

[NadyaMaude]

REALLY DUMB QUESTION: pattern of misuse would be what? I don't use now. But when I get cravings i take the suboxone. I feel like I am doing the same thing as with painkillers. When i mentioned this to my therapist, he thinks it's me breaking a pattern of behavior (I would lie, steal and obsess) as when i take the sub, it stops me from doing those things. not trying to ask a stupid question on the pattern of misuse. VERY new at this recovery thing and not much support in my life. Thanks JessFR. I take benzodiazapines and have never abused but since I am a crazy perfectionist A1 neurotic I shame myself for HELPING myself sometimes so it's hard to know the difference... thanks for listening.

 

[cj]

I use my sub in a similar manner. I take a tiny piece whenever I start feeling sick. It's actually helped me taper pretty low

 

[NadyaMaude]

I use my sub in a similar manner. I take a tiny piece whenever I start feeling sick. It's actually helped me taper pretty low

CJ good to know I am not alone. I am on 1/8th of a 2mg, and it's very powerful. I seem to be able to use it just when i am having a really bad day, and not have wd. even this low dose though gives me the WORST constipation! It helps me to not engage in a lot of the shittiest of behaviors in my addiction. I am just new to recovery and have always carried a lot of shame about my drug use that was prescribed, like the xanax. I don't know where that comes from but I am in therapy and have a great psychiatrist. It's the helping myself with drugs thing that gets roped up into something shame-y feeling.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

That would be really cool to use it on/off like that; I know I absolutely cannot and will go back to active addiction almost immediately.

Except for cannabis extract right now, I can PRN almost anything except buprenorphine, heroin or stronger/longer types of opiates etc.

 

[JessFR]

REALLY DUMB QUESTION: pattern of misuse would be what? I don't use now. But when I get cravings i take the suboxone. I feel like I am doing the same thing as with painkillers. When i mentioned this to my therapist, he thinks it's me breaking a pattern of behavior (I would lie, steal and obsess) as when i take the sub, it stops me from doing those things. not trying to ask a stupid question on the pattern of misuse. VERY new at this recovery thing and not much support in my life. Thanks JessFR. I take benzodiazapines and have never abused but since I am a crazy perfectionist A1 neurotic I shame myself for HELPING myself sometimes so it's hard to know the difference... thanks for listening.

Pattern of misuse would be increasingly using a drug in ways you previously intended not to use it. For example, initially committing to only using when you feel really sick. Then starting to use when you feel even a little sick. Then when you feel unwell in any way. Then when you're bored but only once in a while. Then more frequently, etc etc.

That's a pattern of misuse. In your case I said it's possible that using subuxone more frequently than you initially intended could be the beginning of such a pattern.

Which doesn't in itself mean you have a problem or that you should stop. Just that it's something to be cautious about.

 

[cj]

If your not physically addicted then you should quit while your ahead. It's hard to get off sub even at low doses. Far as the constipation goes I constantly struggle with that. I take ALOT of miralax and use laxatives when that doesn't work

 

[VastEmpty]

Hey Nadya!

Welcome to the recovery process. You are in good company here.

I’m not experienced with Subs and only know of them through my research and reading here. One thing that stood out to me from your initial post (and I realize this wasn’t your question, sorry if I am distracting from your original concern) was that you were taking 7mgs of oxy. Is that correct? Does that mean 7mgs was enough for you to get the desired effect?

If so, I think that may explain why you are getting super nauseas and high off of 1/8th of a 2mg sub. I think that from being on such a low dose of oxy - and not on a regular basis - I’m guessing you have lower than normal tolerance (by normal I mean normal for someone who is taking subs).

I would suggest seriously considering if subs are a good choice for you. It sounds like they are changing some behaviors that were problematic, which is certainly a positive. However, trading a 7mg oxy dependence for any type of sub dependence might end up hurting you more in the long run.

Anyway, something to consider. Best of luck!

- VE

 

[Stargazer]

VE makes a good point. You don't want to get caught up in subs if you don't need to. Your habit is mild.

Mine was obscene. 400mg a day Oxy, 120 Fioricet a month, 90 1mg Xanax w 2 refills a month. Then I added 14-21bags of IV heroin to that. A gram to a gram and a half a day of H.

I'm on Subutex now. My story is very different. I wish I wasn't on anything. As VE said, you got so ill because you're tolerance is way lower than the sub.

Do yourself a huge favor, don't get in deep with subs if you don't have to. Good luck.

 

[rocket808]

After decades of lurking on bluelight I think this is my first post:

NadyaMaude: Holy shit. Run, don't walk, away from this Dr. who put you on Subs for a less than 7mg a day Oxy habit! They obviously have no idea what they are doing, but they are setting you up for a world of hurt.

You are making a distinction in your mind that doesn’t exist. Buprenorphine (subs) IS an opioid painkiller. In the US it is only just beginning to be used for pain management, but it has been used for pain for decades in other countries. It is extremely powerful and very addictive, and withdrawal is worse than other opiates because it lasts for months instead of weeks.

To give you an idea how horribly overprescribed 2mg is for you, see https://opioidconversion.com/. According to that site, 7mg oxy is equal to between .14-.19 mg sublingual bupe.

2mg of bupe is equal to 75-100mg of oxy! Of course you felt high as balls and sick.

Just so you know I’m not just talking out my ass, I’ve been on opiates for over 20 years. At one point I had a habit like Stargazer’s. I’ve weaned down from 16mg bupe to now I’m on .15mcg/hr patch. It’s taken years and it has not been fun. Thanks to a spinal cord injury I will be on it for the rest of my life, but it allows me to live a normal life instead of being a junkie.

It sounds to me like you weren’t physically dependent on opiates when you were doing the oxy, but you definitely show signs of what they call Opiate Use Disorder. If you keep taking 2mg a day of buprenorphine you will 100% end up in the hell of opiate addiction. Please, taper off the bupe as fast as possible and find another Dr. ASAP. This Dr. is about to fuck up your life.

 

[rocket808]

...I don't use now. But when I get cravings i take the suboxone. I feel like I am doing the same thing as with painkillers...

Because you ARE still using painkillers.

When i mentioned this to my therapist, he thinks it's me breaking a pattern of behavior (I would lie, steal and obsess) as when i take the sub, it stops me from doing those things.

You aren't breaking the pattern. You are continuing it, just with a slightly different chemical. When you took the oxy, as long as it was your system you probably weren't obsessing. The bupe is doing the same thing, it just has less euphoria and last a very long time.

I know things can sound way harsher in plain text than they are meant, I hope this didn't come across that way. This is from a place of love and compassion. I am just very concerned, because I see someone who is right on the edge of falling into this hell of opiate addiction, and your doctor seems to be trying to shove you over the edge. It will no means be easy, but you can still get out relatively unscathed. Opiate addiction killed my brother, has killed several friends, and may someday kill me. You still have a chance.

REALLY DUMB QUESTION: pattern of misuse would be what?

There are no dumb questions. The answers to those questions may save your life, so please ask any question you have.

 

[Stargazer]

^^^This.

Great post rocket.

Nadya, we're all coming from a place of concern. Like we're trying to catch an egg or a plate before it falls to the ground.

Rocket's post was insightful and wise. It's living hell once you're all in. Usually, by the time you realize you have a problem, you're in pretty deep.

I hope you're well Nadya. Hope you stop back to update us.

 

[NadyaMaude]

Hi everyone, I am really hoping this is all confidential on blue light. I feel very raw about this stuff and get very nervous about disclosing. I have so much shame about all this and am so new in my recovery. On the pk use---I felt like I was all in even though I found out it was a mild chemical dependancy. It's not the amount you are addicted to that leads to addiction. We are all different in our tolerance. I was obsessed with finding them. I lied to my loved ones, I lied to doctors, I stole from my friends, I isolated myself, I have lost a lot of years trying to self medicate grief at the loss of my beloved mom and a treatment resistant depression. To be honest, I am the one keeping all the truth from my support team. (medical) I am not totally being honest with my team about my concerns or about how I am using the suboxone now.
Thank you for your caring and yes, it sounds harsh in text at times, and of course as a person who has an opiate use disorder I feel a lot of shame for being in this position-- so i can be sensitive as hell! I realized I had a problem early, I just have the luck of low tolerance. Doesn't feel like luck. even this small amount was enough just to make me feel like I could be ok on this earth... And the behaviors, UGH. So i am doing ok, still going to AA, no NA in my area, have a recovery coach that I like. I am being honest with her and we are working on me talking frankly with my doctors. I guess I just need support. I am scared about being even more trapped by the subs.... but don't want to give them up either. I know you all know this feeling in some way. I guess I need to be honest with my doctor but I am afraid she's going to take them away of course so here in lies the hellish vortex....Thanks for listening. I appreciate your caring for me, not even knowing me. Warmly, N.

 

[cj]

The brutal truth is for many people once your addicted to opiates there is no going back to abstinence. I know their isn't for me anyway. Suboxone and methadone give people a chance to live a normal life without the insanity of the black market.

I think people fuck up logically when they put complete abstinence as the goal to get over addiction. The goal should be a fufilling life. If dissolving some shit under my tongue everyday allows that then sign me the fuck up.

The best part is the data backs up maintenance as the best treatment for opiate addiction. People on Suboxone live longer healthier lives then people who use abstinence only based treatment. The mortality difference between the two treatments is striking. That doesn't even get in to the economic costs of having a high percentage of patients who will constantly relapse during abstinence only based treatment.

Its an individual decision. But don't pretend like people on maintenance are doing something wrong or aren't recovering. That's simply not true

 

[NadyaMaude]

The goal should be a fufilling life

CJ, thank you. I think recovery is so personal. And, I also think what my doctor intended for me was to stop the addictive behaviors so that I could begin to heal my depression and grief, and stay above water as I did it. The 1/8th of the 2 mg sub seems to help me not be as suicidal after my brain chemistry tanked after expected the opiates every day for so many years. I guess I am exactly where I need to be on my recovery journey. New, confused, not totally honest with my docs but getting there, going to meetings, trying to figure out how to live without daily tussinex or looking for ways to toss friends' houses for drugs. Trying to not feel shame. Trying. Being honest with my husband for the first time in 4 years... Thanks for the compassion and support. I need it.

 

[tjunkie3]

Hi Everyone,
Last day of 4 years of a pretty mild painkiller addiction (at most 7mg oxy or whatever I could find and not everyday-- hard to get them!) was in Feb, had bad cravings and such, then was induced on 2 mgs of sub and got incredibly sick and higher than any time I used opiates!! Like, we're talking crawling to the toilet sick and higher than a kite. If i hadn't had the best doctor ever, I would have suffered without zofran. ANYWAY my question is, I seem to only be able to tolerate 1/8th of a 2mg film or I get nauseated and heavy feeling in the face. AKA face fatigue, a little high but not in a good way for me. I decided to stop taking this everyday because I felt so shitty on it, and anxious, would have to take a .5 mg xanax a lot of the time to deal with the racing heart. Now, it seems that I only take it when I am feeling like I wish I had some painkillers. ESPECIALLY when I am not busy, or I am bored, especially when I am alone. But now I seem to take it everyday, and wonder if i am just falling into the same thing as I did with the painkillers.... as the GHETTO BOYS would say.... my mind is playing tricks on me! Does anyone else take them just when they feel cravings? PRN sub? Thanks for helping a newbie. I go to AA but no NA meetings close by and I can't bring this stuff up there. Be well...

Yes, there are others taking sub, when they have that craving. If ur on a 28 day, see Dr. UA get ur meds....like some. We will take a break from our reg meds, do a 3 day sub 4mg then 2mg a few hours later and again 2 mg at night. Repeate next day and day after. Enjoy the sub, go back to reg med dosing and feel better about the reg meds again. It starts with that sub feeling craving, you mentioned. It's done, craving satisfied, back to reg meds. Repeated later.

 

[Stargazer]

I get it Nadya. You're doing great. I'm on Subutex. It helps me to live a more responsible, productive life.

If you knew my story....talk about feeling ashamed. I was completely exposed. My story was in the local newspaper.

My house burned down. They found drug paraphernalia and empty drug bags. I was arrested. While my house was still burning. So it made the newspaper.

That's the short version. The silver lining is it helped get my mental health in a better place than ever.

I'm glad you're here.

 

[NadyaMaude]

I get it Nadya. You're doing great. I'm on Subutex. It helps me to live a more responsible, productive life.

If you knew my story....talk about feeling ashamed. I was completely exposed. My story was in the local newspaper.

My house burned down. They found drug paraphernalia and empty drug bags. I was arrested. While my house was still burning. So it made the newspaper.

That's the short version. The silver lining is it helped get my mental health in a better place than ever.

I'm glad you're here. ❤

Thank you. I feel really really unsure about everything I am doing right now so thanks for saying I am doing great. That kind of support is the antidote to the shame.

 

[Stargazer]

You're very welcome. I felt like moving to another country after that newspaper story. It was horrifying. But, another lesson in pride and humility.

We're all human, doing our best. Everyone has struggles, whether they admit it or not, noone can pass judgement.

Happy Easter Nadya. ?