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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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@Fubar- Agreed on that. Your right I remember when I started back in early/mid 00’s, I was told rolling related to the up n down of the effects and good MDMA definitely does this.

I also don’t hear that in a lot of reports anymore either. Nowadays many claim it lasts 2-3 hours from dosing to comedown and sounds like one solid peak.

@Biscuit- I tried a follow up but have yet to receive a response. I may private message again in a few days just to make sure.

I’d also bet he’s having dilated pupils as well.

Ill try him again soon to see what’s up. The other thing that sticks out is the fact he says 5.5hrs felt like 90min. I’m assuming that means the experience lasted at least 4-5, not the 1.5-3 hours some people claim today.

And that’s my biggest worry if the bad shit ever makes it my way. The duration is big to me, when you only roll a few times a year you want that shit to last. I’ve never had a roll last shorter than 3.5hrs from comeup til I have that “it’s over” feeling. I prefer 5-6 hours though.


But also back on to the precursor regulations, what does this mean for the MDMA trade? Is PMK glycidate now illegal in China when before it wasnt?

-GC
 
About 6 months ago I got numerous pills + MDMA all tested of course.
I gave a person their first time starting off with 100mg and honestly it hardly affected them and throughout the night they consumed 500-600mg in total which is a lot I know but looking back on that compared to Pre-Safrole ban just doesn't add up.

I remember 100mg back in the day was heaps, would have you rolling hard for hours on end and today's stuff seems to last a lot less , doesn't produce that profound happiness and waves of pleasure running up and down your body. I no longer get the feeling to hug everyone, to explore or love. Not to mention I can remember myself struggling to take another cap or two over the night as it was so strong, yet someone who has never done drugs in general can take 500-600mg in a night and while they did this I never noticed what I used to notice with myself and friends.

The strongest MDMA I've had has not been imported, it's been made locally with Safrole and maybe it had more impurities that made it stronger or maybe there is something different about the synthesis's these days or even the precursors are causing an isomer to be imbalanced.

I'm now suffering LTC from MDMA after the last time and i'll never do it again as I just don't trust it anymore and whether that's because I've done numerous high doses or MDMA over many years even though I normally take 3-6 month breaks in between, the after effects were so bad it wasn't worth it anymore.
 
^^^Yo man so are you the guy I’m thinking of that rolled no problem for years and didn’t get the LTC til this new crappier MDMA started floating around?

I’ve always found your case interesting and further evidence in my opinion that LTC is possibly related to the overall change in product.

I think the need to take increased doses may also have something to do with it. Saw on reddit today some kid who supposedly took .2g MDMA and 200ug LSD.. His pupils were barely dilated and he looked far too coherent lol.

Ah man.. Kids these dayz

-GC
 
OK. First of all thanks to the Bluelighters who have, and still are, avidly and actively pursuing this slippery issue. As someone who cares about my health and is now in my 7th decade, I appreciate being able to read intelligent debate and argument that allows me to make an informed choice. As with most things in later life, moderation becomes a way of hopefully avoiding a slightly earlier demise or other malady.

Now to the point. It seems many of the points raised and observations made cast up contradictions. Eye wiggle, peaks and troughs, dose variation, etc. One thing I don't think has been considered (and I hope I just didn't miss it - I have read every post in this thread) - and it is only another symptom - is the so called "pilly-willie" effect.

Unsavoury a topic as it may be, in true scientific fashion it needs to be considered. So have any of the users of the so-called MehDMA or other newer productions requiring large doses experienced issues with erections or anorgasmia? Or have consistent differences been experienced?
 
The comments from the MAPS participant are interesting. MAPS is using a strict 120 mg plus 60 mg dosage for those in the study. So, overall, under 200 mg. That user is describing the time dilation effect that I recall from rolling as well as the peaks and valley feeling that I recall. I suspect many of the old pills were a higher dose than the 120 mg MAPS is working with, so that may explain why this individual is not just floored. MAPS needs the participants to remain lucid and they want to avoid some of the side effects as well.

EntheoDjinn, I have brought up sex/sexuality in this thread at various points. I think most people have assumed that I am male, but I am actually female. So, while I cannot comment personally on the "pilly-willie" effect, I can say the following from observation:

From 2000 to 2002 I had one partner. He could not get an erection while rolling. We never had sex while rolling either. These were my earliest MDMA experiences. I had my first proper roll in April, 2000. They were very strong and memorable experiences, but they were not sexual. This partner and I were never very sexually charged (honestly, I think he was more into guys, but that is another story for another day).

That partner and I broke up, and I began seeing someone else in the fall of 2002. The very first time we rolled together, it became immediately sexual. That partner and I had (have) a strong sexual energy in general. He was able to get and maintain an erection while rolling (lucky me), and our rolls together were always sexual. We rolled together for a long time, from 2002-2006 when the product changed and the effects became different. Our rolls were always similar and sexual through those years, even though the pills changed. We had one supplier. After the product changed, my partner eventually had to stop rolling all together because he was having other health issues and depression. Now I wonder if he actually had a LTC triggered by the new product. Hard to say. Whatever the case, he took a long break. However, recently, he tried some of this newer product and it was totally different. He could not maintain an erection like he had before and he did not have any empathy or feelings of connection. He described it as, "a collection of symptoms." It was actually that experience which really motivated me to start looking into all of this more, because someone with a many year break like him should have rolled harder/better than that.

So, in my partner's experience, the old stuff allowed an erection, but the new stuff does not. Now, I understand that getting an erection on E is a rarity, so he may be an anomaly in his experience.

What has your experience been?
 
I will add this as well...

I have not personally ever been able to have an orgasm while rolling. But, for me, rolling was synonymous with being turned on. The whole time. It was a constant pre-orgasmic state. And, for my partner and me, this did translate to lengthy sexual experiences where we would listen to music and have sex on and off all night. It was a great time. But on this new stuff, there is no pre-orgasmic feeling. Music sounds blah. Laying around feels ok and there is no motivation for anything else.

There was another person who posted here awhile back and had a similar experience. His story was interesting because he had used ecstasy a long time ago, but his wife had not. So, she tried it and they had sex and it was great. Then they got a different batch of this meh-DMA crap and the magic/sexuality was gone. His wife felt the same way he did, which was an important data point because she was a new user but he was an old user. So, clearly, it was not simply tolerance.
 
Ok first off Indigo. I’m sure I’ve called you man more than once.. Never a correction? Lol, looking back I think I just assumed you were a gay guy.

Anywhoo.. About the erectile dysfunction I think that all is person dependent and mood dependent. When I first started rolling I couldn’t get it up while on it but I also couldn’t get it up on a lot of substances. I was struggling with sexual identity at the time but as years wore on and I became more confident in knowing who I was they came on easier.

Now I definitely can no problem but to be honest I prefer it on the comedown portion. When I’m peaking I wanna be dancing or chatting shit, either or.. I can always have sex at the end of the night still in that half rolly stage.

I know people that can’t though no matter what though. I’d say more often than not people have a hard time, at least at the peak.

-GC
 
I try to be vague on these kinds of forums and not give out too much identifying info. People usually assume I am a guy. Maybe I like it on some level? Maybe I am a gay guy at heart? Possible...I have always found gender to be a bit ambiguous.

In any case, I call everyone "man" whether male or female, as any good child raised on the ninja turtles would do. Never thought anything of it.

But, it now seems relevant to the conversation when discussing these sexual aspects of the drug, so it was time to clear it up. Apologies if anyone feels mislead, that wasn't the intent.
 
The MAPS guy said, "The medicine they gave me felt MUCH more lucid in the dream-like states of the peaks." I think it is interesting he is referring to the peaks as "dream like." I wonder if he is implying that he enters a semi dream state? I had an experience like that once, early on. Never thought it was MDMA though, always thought it was an unknown adulterant. I also wonder if the therapists are talking him into a dream state in some way, like hypnosis.
 
Hello hello!!

Ive now had those 2 batches subjectively tested in the real world. I can confirm that both batches from 2 different sources had the same effects. My testers claim they never really "got there" Doses were 120mg. Everyone knows good mdma when it hits, and im not getting those types of responses on the mass market pure dutch mdma.

reminder: I purposely tried obtaining a safrole based mdma vs a pure dutch thats easily found. I was not successful on the safrole based product (i may revisit this now), so i went with 2 different people claiming "SUPER STRONG" mdma and another claming "pure dutch" mdma. Both batches looked the same, smelled the same (barely aniseed smell, but it IS there its just not that strong smelling) Slightly opaque. Its a beautiful looking product, but the real beauty is in its effects. And my subjects didnt seem overly impressed with it.

I myself have never abused the drug, always followed HR rules when it comes to wait times, dont take prescriptions of any kind, and my experiences are the same. Its just "ok" but im not BLASTING off like some stuff ive had prior. Theres something wrong, and this thread should continue.

Edit: If this is the state of mdma today, what dose do you think is needed as a starter? Super confused.
 
eh. it is just not the same anymore. I remember even up to just a couple years ago. The rolling waves, the glassy eyes and smiling not stop--- oh and of course the wetness/being turned on.
Now everything I get is too speedy. There are no waves of ecstasy (I mean that was what the drug is called right :)). There is a lot of the "cleaning of the system" the next day. Do they now cut it with laxatives I wonder?!
My husband continues to like to do it sometimes but I turned it down the other night just because- I don't want 2 days of not feeling well afterwards.
Not worth it anymore.
 
The rolling waves, what's that?? I totally forgot about mdma rolling waves till couple of days back when I have tried lsd for first time. Deff no rolling waves with mehdma.
 
Just givin ya shit Indigo ;) in the end it doesn’t matter much.

@epic11 - So are you saying that product you enjoyed other people didn’t? Did any of those batches turn out to be good that were advertised as such?

-GC
 
@epic11 IMO, no dosage increase will fix it. I either think there is an adulterant that is binding to/blocking receptors, inhibiting transport etc. OR it is a completely different drug that is close enough to fool tests. I know I have tried to increase the dose with the supply I have, and it never pushes me over the threshold. All it does is increase the negative side effects.

@mysterygirlx I have also experienced the stomach issues you are talking about. I am literally sick (physically sick) for several days afterwards (nausea, indigestion etc). Does your husband have this effect as well?
 
I have never used any sort of research chemicals (abbreviated as RCs), MDMA/MDA, or any MDxx drugs. My friends that have said how a lot of what's sold as MDMA is not pure MDMA/MDA and that a lot of pills/powders are cut with methamphetamine, research chemicals, and completely different drugs, and how the pills/powders do contain some MDMA/MDA, so this shows up during a reagent test; but how the RCs, meth, and other drugs do not necessarily show up.

The people I know who have taken MDMA/MDA, most of them anyway, did not go crazy with it and kept their use to once a year or 2-3X a year max. I know two people who really actually did take MDMA/MDA daily for well over a year or two, and another friend who took MDA while dancing at discos on weekends in the 1970s and 1980s. They all experienced burn-out and 'lost the magic' of the drugs, and the people who took it every single day for a year or more have major issues with their short and long term memories, moods, depression, etc.
 
epic11 said:
Hello hello!!

Ive now had those 2 batches subjectively tested in the real world. I can confirm that both batches from 2 different sources had the same effects. My testers claim they never really "got there" Doses were 120mg. Everyone knows good mdma when it hits, and im not getting those types of responses on the mass market pure dutch mdma.

reminder: I purposely tried obtaining a safrole based mdma vs a pure dutch thats easily found. I was not successful on the safrole based product (i may revisit this now), so i went with 2 different people claiming "SUPER STRONG" mdma and another claming "pure dutch" mdma. Both batches looked the same, smelled the same (barely aniseed smell, but it IS there its just not that strong smelling) Slightly opaque. Its a beautiful looking product, but the real beauty is in its effects. And my subjects didnt seem overly impressed with it.

I myself have never abused the drug, always followed HR rules when it comes to wait times, dont take prescriptions of any kind, and my experiences are the same. Its just "ok" but im not BLASTING off like some stuff ive had prior. Theres something wrong, and this thread should continue.

Edit: If this is the state of mdma today, what dose do you think is needed as a starter? Super confused.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by 'pure Dutch' MDMA? That it was synthesized and smuggled from the Netherlands/Benelux?
 
Yes @G_Chem that was more then likely me.
The last time I remember having those great experiences were around 2014, from there it just seemed to be an ever increasing dose to get desirable effects that although were similar it wasn't the same.

I remember every time hugging my friends and saying how much I appreciated everyone, eyes rolling in the back of my head, teeth chattering and the waves of euphoria washing over. Now I'd just sit there, not wanting to move, teeth clenched, leg moving constantly and a slight amount of euphoria / out of it.. and maybe I'm just fried beyond return from taking higher doses but surely that isn't the case with everyone especially people new to MDMA not getting the same level of feelings.

100-150 was a strong dose, now it's more like 200-250, but even then.. it's still not quite the same, different feel so there strong in different ways not the same way.
 
Ok, so a lot of you say that people today go for higher doses of MDMA. Do we have any evidence (hard data, statistics) that average dose consumed by user "back in the day" was lower? And if we do, can we see similiar dosage increase in other party drug subcultures (cocaine, meth,...)? This won't solve anything, but it can serve as an evidence for possible future research led by professionals into this topic.
Also, I have to admit that even if someone finds the evidence of average dosage increase of MDMA, it may be caused by low price (just as with alcohol - cheap alcohol = people are drinking more) or high dose pills (example: let's assume that we find evidence of average dosage increase of MDMA, but not an increase of average number of pills consumed during the night).
In my opinion I don't think that we can find the culprit of mehDMA. There are too many factors and we have limited options (legally, economically,...). I would suggest to gather available data that will support that something has changed during the last x years and MDMA has turned into mehDMA. When / If we get enought evidence (and again, I'm talking about data, statistics) to support that statement, we can contact research labs, universities to test this theory.
 
@ indigoaura - how was it for me?

Well, first of all I don't think I've ever had the MehDMA personally, although I think I have a tiny amount in my possession (I'll come back to that). I've been lucky to have had the 'real thing' since my first experience some 20 years ago. I always felt that if my penis shrunk until it was almost non-existent and my pupils expanded like saucers then I was looking at a good roll. This has been my consistent experience. 145mg is the sweet spot for me with a top up of around 40mg around an hour and a half later. The experience would last around 4-5 hours. Fortunately around the time I discovered MDMA I met my soul mate and we are still nuts about each other 20+ years later. Fortunately around that time Viagra became available and the 'pilly-willie' (such a silly term) became irrelevant. I would always experience anorgasmia which I saw as a huge benefit - sex would last for the duration of the roll. I think I have naturally high levels of serotonin or whatever so come-downs for me are barely noticeable. I do notice very slight memory issues for about 3 months after though - nothing too concerning, just names and odd words. I am at the age where age-related memory loss does start to become apparent. Oh - and I almost forgot the eye-wiggle. My partner has similar experiences to what you reported in terms of being turned on.

Now to the MehDMA. Someone to whom I gave a lift home after a party rewarded me with a chunk of crystal he said was "not the best MDMA but OK". That evaluation is very telling! I haven't tried this yet and after following this thread from its inception I really don't think I want to. I'll wait until some good stuff comes around. I have however shared some of this MDMA with friends and they report that they need to take around 200+mg to feel "pleasant". Hardly any pupil dilation, no jaw clenching and no feeling of being "whacked". Seemed to last much longer than I would have expected - around 7-8 hours. No great hangover or comedown though. Pleasant afterglow the next day or two. It actually sounds as if it's somewhere in the middle of the MagicMDA and MehDMA. But in my experience proper MDMA is always magic! (unless of course you've been at it every day/week etc. for a substantial period)

I realise that there are huge idiosyncratic and subjective elements in all this, but there does seem to be a distinct difference. At first I was very reticent about giving this to my friends but there was a shortage and they said they enjoyed the experience and wanted to repeat it. I did tell them right at the start that I was reading this thread and was concerned about the side/after effects. None of them experienced great disappointment, just "mild" disappointment that the experience was weak compared to "the old days".

I don't live too far away from Europe so it is possible it came from there - maybe the Nederlands but who knows.

And with regards to the idea that the purity and doses were bigger in the past that was thought, I've always carefully weighed my powder/crystal with accurate scales. If I weigh 140mg then I can only have at most 140mg of MDMA - and most likely less due to the disgusting but all to common practice of 'cutting'.
 
I believe there might be three truths to all this.
1. People's brains/body's aren't reacting in the same way due to increase use or not enough time between doses to fully heal.
2. Something is seriously wrong with the MDMA causing LTC's but could also be from more use as more availability.
3. There is different synthesis techniques and different precursors being used, causing different effects although similar not to the same.

I think it could be a mix of all the three but namely the last one stands out.
There has been numerous posts in this thread as well as my own experiences to suggest there is good MDMA out there but that begs the question as to why that MDMA is superior to another. Normally i'd have to take 200mg for me to be having a semi good time but even then very sub par in terms of 'desirable' effects, more stimulant then euphoria driven.

About a year or so ago I took 100mg after having a six month break and was completely floored, sitting on the ground with visual distorted like the first time I ever tried the drug. Along with this was that lovey euphoria, trying not to be sick and I couldn't believe it but I didn't think I could have anymore I was that destroyed. But to me, that's what I remember all those years ago. There have been times sure that have surprised me at how strong some of the product is but it's just not quiet the same considering I felt that from 100mg not 200mg and still not the same feeling.

In those early years I never felt MDMA to be a party drug as I have always used around friends at home, I never even wanted to move from the chair.
So, as 'dutch mdma' comes into the picture, why wouldn't they want a product that is a stimulant to keep you going while you partied, not something to sit down and hug people ? Makes sense if your pushing a product.

What I'm trying to say is, the dutch use a precursor and synth that is having that effect, while other places in the world such as Canada employ other means of synth due to product availability of safrole oil. The dutch get all the stuff from china, who is to say they aren't getting a specific isomer of the precursor and also why they have to put double the MDMA in the pills etc to feel the same.
 
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