US Politics The Mueller Investigation - report is out

[Captain.Heroin]

What is your trusted source for news, TLB?

I like Al Jazeera and CNN. NPR too.

I don’t know what TLB prefers.

 

[JGrimez]

2 years of hysteria to nail Manafort for crimes he was already investigated for was totally worth it.

IT'S MUELLER TIME!!

 

[cduggles]

I definitely would characterize Trump fans as being hysterical about Mueller.

North Korea better give up those nukes or we're going to have to invade Venezuela. I'm only half-joking.

Bets on further indictments?

 

[TheLoveBandit]

I don't think Trump fans are hysterical about Mueller the man, but about the fact that an investigation based on fabricated materials and the desire to take Trump down was allowed, and hasn't found anything on Trump (surprise!).

 

[Xorkoth]

Well we don't know yet if they have anything on Trump... supposedly we will know soon, maybe. I sure hope so because I tire of this debate and the not knowing. It may turn out it was fully justified, or it may not. Also it's not just about Trump. It's about a foreign power attempting to destabilize our democracy. Whether Trump had nothing to do with it, was an unwitting pawn, or helped on purpose, he's just one piece. Only time will tell... I hope the media isn't just yanking us around and we actually get some closure.

 

[cduggles]

^ great post!

Trump is amoral, on a side note.

The Mueller investigation is already invaluable exposing some of the ways the Russians manipulated the election.

It's a shame the report will probably be redacted except for the word "the" if the public even sees it.

 

[mal3volent]

So I heard Congress is going to subpoena Mueller if the report isn't made public, or something?

 

[JGrimez]

So Buzzfeed been caught lying (shock) and also doubling-down on their original lie report.

"this was the first known example of Trump explicitly telling a subordinate to lie"

"He did not directly tell me to lie"

Cohen said he knows of "no direct evidence" that Trump or his campaign colluded with Russia (though he said he had "suspicions" - wouldn't he know?)

-I'm not saying this to be mean. I genuinely feel sorry for MSNBC viewers who have had their brains filled with stuff like this for 2 straight years and uncritically believed what they were hearing. The damage to the discourse will never be undone.

-Michael Cohen, Trump's most trusted & intimate fixer who now hates him, was (a) never in Prague, (b) knows of no blackmail leverage the Kremlin has & (c) never heard any attempts to conspire with Russia over the election. The media silence over these crucial facts is deafening

-NBC doing its best to prepare its audience for what they think is coming, and trying to figure out how to bridge the gap between the expectations they stoked for two straight years (earning huge rewards for doing so) with the harsh reality they obviously believe is imminent.

TIME: 'Why The Mueller Report Might Disappoint Almost Everybody'

Anyone still think Mueller is gonna get Trump?

 

[TheLoveBandit]

I heard the hearings with Cohen may go another week or so? And they are looking to subpoena an additional 50-60 people? I'm all for the truth, but usually you'd bring your big guns in early to set the tone and the backups are to fill in details and support the big gun accusations. I certainly hope Mueller and his team have some big findings and share them quick, or it will further feed the image of a wasted effort based on false pretenses. If they bring in 20+ more people and DON'T have something then wtf are they doing and trying to achieve?

 

[JGrimez]

I certainly hope Mueller and his team have some big findings

Why

If they bring in 20+ more people and DON'T have something then wtf are they doing and trying to achieve?

They want this hanging over Trump for as long as possible hopefully until the election. They can use it as ammo just like it hurt Hillary Clinton that she was (legitimately) under investigation by the FBI. It's obstruction and distraction.

Also to divert attention away from their own collusion with Russia. The Democrats are all about projection, what they accuse others of they are guilty themselves. Uranium One is still huge and hasn't been addressed, then there's Hillary's server probably hacked by Russians and she was possibly even selling SAPs to foreign donors (the Chinese govt discovered and executed CIA spies while she was SoS). Also the FISA wiretapping scandal, where the Dems hired an ex-British spy who was colluding himself with Russian officials to get fake dirt on Trump which Buzzfeed then published and helped a few unsavory folk to fraudulently obtain a surveillance warrant. These are legitimate scandals with tons of evidence - unlike Trump/Russia collusion which was a flimsy plan to explain Trump's shock win and desperate attempt to remove him in a coup. The Mueller investigation is a failed coup. Banana Republic shit.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Why

Because as much as Trump fumbles and looks the idiot, THIS investigation coming up with nothing makes our FBI look as bad or worse. Aside from the accusations of FBI/DOJ corruption, this failure to find anything as a statement on it's own is LOUD and CLEAR that the FBI either launches investigations on bad intel, or can't do a basic investigation. Not even looking back at how poorly they have handled other things that paint towards corruption. This investigation alone, if it comes up with nothing....destroys American faith in gov't to do its job. And then, it opens the door for those corruption investigations...which may be needed. But who can carry them out? The FBI/DOJ? LMFAO.

They want this hanging over Trump for as long as possible hopefully until the election. They can use it as ammo just like it hurt Hillary Clinton that she was (legitimately) under investigation by the FBI. It's obstruction and distraction.

Also to divert attention away from their own collusion with Russia. The Democrats are all about projection, what they accuse others of they are guilty themselves. Uranium One is still huge and hasn't been addressed, then there's Hillary's server probably hacked by Russians and she was possibly even selling SAPs to foreign donors (the Chinese govt discovered and executed CIA spies while she was SoS). Also the FISA wiretapping scandal, where the Dems hired an ex-British spy who was colluding himself with Russian officials to get fake dirt on Trump which Buzzfeed then published and helped a few unsavory folk to fraudulently obtain a surveillance warrant. These are legitimate scandals with tons of evidence - unlike Trump/Russia collusion which was a flimsy plan to explain Trump's shock win and desperate attempt to remove him in a coup. The Mueller investigation is a failed coup. Banana Republic shit.

It is not conceivably possible to stretch this another two years to Trump's re-election. It seems Burr (?) is pushing for results - if he's replaced for any reason, I expect the same pressure to be applied to 'prove something or move on'. Stretching it out, now that there are congressional hearings occurring (regardless of the public's ability to hear them) means information is finally being presented to Congress who will HAVE to come to a decision. If the Dems allow it to stretch out (more witnesses! more subpoenas!) it will end up hurting them as much or more as Trump for the next election. The people will see it as Dems being more interested in vengeance, even if there is no substance to the accusations, than doing anything for the country. At the same time, the Socialists of their party are the only ones putting anything forth to draw votes. The old school dems are struggling to shut up the socialists before they break the party in half and need to put forth initiatives to get public support for their re-election. Pissing away taxes dollars for years on an unsubstantiated investigation that turns up nothing will not endear them to anyone but the Trump haters (those more focused on hating Trump than leading America).

 

[TheLoveBandit]

To the investigation...

Honestly, I'm still hung up on the truth behind this meme

Yeah, it's a meme...but can you imagine if Trump had been found with these issues? Seriously. And I'm not putting this up as a 'whatabout', but at face value - if Trump had been found with any of this he'd have been killed (not literally). And yet, what HAVE they found to date?

 

[JGrimez]

the FBI either launches investigations on bad intel

Bingo.
I hope they don't find anything because then it will expose them for what they are - the government can then clean up the agencies - and they can then work how they're supposed to.

The people will see it as Dems being more interested in vengeance, even if there is no substance to the accusations

That's exactly what happened so I don't care what people see as long as it's the truth. If they didn't want that then they shouldn't have enacted the phony investigation in the first place.

Yeah, it's a meme...but can you imagine if Trump had been found with these issues? Seriously. And I'm not putting this up as a 'whatabout', but at face value - if Trump had been found with any of this he'd have been killed (not literally). And yet, what HAVE they found to date?

No Leftist here will ever honestly answer this question - because it completely absolves Trump and everything that they've said about Trump will actually be deserved by Hillary. I was arguing in the Clinton thread with an alleged lawyer who refused to be honest about what she did and the obstructions of justice that took place to cover for her. The truth destroys the entire "Trump is a criminal" narrative.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

No Leftist here will ever honestly answer this question - because it completely absolves Trump and everything that they've said about Trump will actually be deserved by Hillary. I was arguing in the Clinton thread with an alleged lawyer who refused to be honest about what she did and the obstructions of justice that took place to cover for her. The truth destroys the entire "Trump is a criminal" narrative.

Disagree. Wrong is wrong. Because someone else does it, does not absolve anyone else. That someone 'got away with it' does not mean others should 'get away with it'. At least, not in my book.

I say let them find whatever they can on Trump - I expect nothing, but let them look and come with findings. As long as they aren't fabricated, I'll hold him accountable. As to Clinton, and the DOJ/FBI, those ARE investigations still to be had. IF they can find anything on Trump, it will bring the playing field up to being more level where these investigations can be done.

 

[cduggles]

To the investigation...

Honestly, I'm still hung up on the truth behind this meme

Yeah, it's a meme...but can you imagine if Trump had been found with these issues? Seriously. And I'm not putting this up as a 'whatabout', but at face value - if Trump had been found with any of this he'd have been killed (not literally). And yet, what HAVE they found to date?

No one would think twice about it.

Just like no one thought twice about the possibility of Trump using an unsecured phone, displaying classified documents at a meeting at his golf club with Abe that people snapped photos of, revealing classified information to the Russians he was meeting secretly after firing Comey, or the use of non-governmental email by his staff and family (the ones on staff, tbc).

And that was when he was completely inexperienced.

Now, the expectations are even lower. People sincerely wonder if Trump is too stupid to know he's dog whistling to racists or if he's just a transactional racist. No one wants to see his grades or test scores because we know he's a blockhead.

No one expects Trump to tell the truth in a single press conference or rally, much less follow some "nerdy" security protocol.

And, as mentioned previously, these investigations aren't timed according to the patience of Trump or the American people... both of whom have tiny little attention spans.

Trump has some seriously shady shit in his wake and as one of Trump's lawyers (I honestly don't remember which one) astutely commented, "all Mueller 's guys are money guys". They're after scalps and the indictments are now inner circle.

Fortunately someone will leak the report. Mueller knows who his audience is too.

 

[JGrimez]

Just like no one thought twice about the possibility of Trump using an unsecured phone, displaying classified documents at a meeting at his golf club with Abe that people snapped photos of, revealing classified information to the Russians he was meeting secretly after firing Comey, or the use of non-governmental email by his staff and family (the ones on staff, tbc).

You make all this sound really bad but none of this is illegal.

All this investigation has is speculation and insinuations.
No evidence, no proof, not even an accusation of a specific Trump against Trump.

They're after scalps and the indictments are now inner circle.

You speak as if you still believe that Mueller is going to uncover evidence of Trump committing crimes..

 

[DrewDogBaby209]

You make all this sound really bad but none of this is illegal.

All this investigation has is speculation and insinuations.
No evidence, no proof, not even an accusation of a specific Trump against Trump.



You speak as if you still believe that Mueller is going to uncover evidence of Trump committing crimes..

And how the fuck do YOU know that he won't uncover years of Donald Trump's crimes? Many Dems have promised to leak the final report if Barr tries to protect Trump.

 

[DrewDogBaby209]

Donald Trump's former lawyer Ty Cobb calls Robert Mueller III an "American Hero."

 

[JGrimez]

And how the fuck do YOU know that he won't uncover years of Donald Trump's crimes? Many Dems have promised to leak the final report if Barr tries to protect Trump.

Because I'm smart and don't believe the fake news.

That's also why I know the details of the FISA scandal and take it seriously.

 

[DrewDogBaby209]

Yeah you're real smart you believe a pathological liar by the name of Donald Trump