US Events Actor Jussie Smollett faces new disorderly conduct charges in alleged fake attack

[Xorkoth]

And honestly I don't follow the logic here. I don't see how such an attack would prevent him getting written off the show.

@RobElgasABC7

"BREAKING: Multiple sources tell ABC7Chicago Eyewitness News Jussie Smollet and the 2 men who are being questioned by police staged the attack - allegedly because his character was being written out of the show Empire."

If that's true it's fucking disgusting.
So the question really is: if he faked it, should he be jailed?
(I'd like to hear cduggles and jess' opinions plz)

The reps for the show replied that they absolutely had no desire or plans to write him off the show, that he was one of the primary characters and it would be stupid to write him off. So that part of the "hoax" seems fabricated (as in, a fabricated hoax - not a fabricated hate crime). If the primary motivation being pushed for it being faked is being refuted by the reps for the show... what does that say about the "faked it" narrative? And if it WAS faked, and he wasn't being written off the show... wouldn't being caught faking it be a huge risk for then actually being written off the show?

The only evidence I could see was that the police were investigating the possibility he it was a hoax (the above linked article about neighbors casting doubt is not evidence at this point, clearly whichever side is lying about it is pushing an agenda real hard). That does not mean it was a hoax. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? In the case of an alleged hate crime, you shouldn't jump on the bandwagon of "IT WAS A HOAX!!!!!!111!!!" (which is how Grimez and Priest are coming off about it - intense anger and castigation at the alleged victim at the drop of a hat) until there is proof. If anything you should assume it was real until proven otherwise because if it was real... how horrible. If it was a hoax, yeah that's shitty, and judge once it's been proven. If it's NOT a hoax... then you're a fucking douchebag for perpetuating this victim blaming. And it says something about what you want to believe that you would jump so vehemently onto the side of "fuck this narcissistic loser for faking a hate crime". You should at least remain neutral on this until there's a verdict after the investigation.

Anyway I can buy that fame/infamy itself is a valid motivation for something like this because yeah, everyone's talking about him now, as would be "verifying" dangerous racism among the MAGA crowd, if you want to see that side brought down. But for fuck's sake, let's let the dust settle before judging the guy. Possible motivation does not equal reality. This has become a lightning rod for racism or the lack therefore in our society right now so both sides are going to overblow their case and twist this thing up because that's the fucking situation we find ourselves in as a society right now. Jumping to a sure conclusion 5 minutes after you see the headlines is indicative of where you want to believe the truth lies, not on where the truth actually lies. And yes, I did want to believe it was a hate crime. That was my initial reaction. But at this point I'm going to reserve judgment because I can't be sure, and it would be decent of everyone else to do the same.

 

[alasdairm]

Chicago Police Arrest Two Suspects in Jussie Smollett Attack

alasdair

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Chicago Police Arrest Two Suspects in Jussie Smollett Attack

alasdair

Catchy headline. Care to go a little deeper? Emphasis mine.

Two persons of interest in the Jan. 29 assault on Empire actor Jussie Smollett have been arrested by Chicago police. “We can confirm that they have been arrested but they have not been charged,” Chicago Police Department Public Information Officer Sally Born confirmed to Deadline on Friday. Olabinjo and Abimbola Osundairo, who are brothers, were questioned at length Thursday, and are now in custody but have not been charged. At least one of the brothers, who were picked up returning to Chicago at O’Hare International Airport on Thursday, has appeared as an extra on Empire, which is filmed in Chicago. The brothers did know Smollett prior to the attack, though how well remains unclear. Gloria Schmidt, the attorney representing the brother, said they have been in custody since Wednesday night. “When they first learned about what happened to him they were horrified. This is someone they know. This is someone they’ve worked with, so they don’t want to see somebody go through that,” Schmidt said.

FTR, once identified, they were brought in for questioning. By 5:45 PM today, they had to be arrested or released according to the law. This is why they are now arrested, and not charged.

 

[JGrimez]

I waited for quite a while before coming to a conclusion that he's full of shit. I am not one to attack alleged victims, but enough time has passed and information released to lead me to believe that he's lying, and in that case I'm sticking up for the true victims of racial attacks who this dishonest MFer is hurting with his racist and political lies.

So police have reviewed hours of footage. They've even watched Smollett's trip and I believe he was out of shot for a minute or so. They have no footage of the attack or the attackers. Honestly in today's day with the amount of CCTV everywhere you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to make up something like this and think that you'd get away with it.

Complete the investigation then throw the book at him so that other people know that this behavior is not OK

"Michael Monico is one of this country's most renowned defense attorneys. Jussie Smollett has just hired. Since when do VICTIMS of crimes hire defense attorneys?"

 

[alasdairm]

i'm not one to attack alleged victims but i attack this alleged victim.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

Catchy headline. Care to go a little deeper? Emphasis mine.

i just posted the update. the two have now been released.

people can draw their own conclusions. unlike a few others in the thread, i'm not going to pretend i know what happened here.

alasdair

 

[TheLoveBandit]

I agree, we can...well shouldn't, but some do...jump to judgement. I know which way I believe it will work out, but that's just my belief, and as such I'll withhold until the police actually charge someone with something. Until then, it's more emotional hysteria based on less facts and more feelings across the media and on the chat boards. Something I don't really have time to waste doing. I'll wait for the outcome.

 

[JessFR]

Something weird about all this. Wtf is this bullshit with the police needing the cell phones to determine if the claimed phone calls were made or not.

Phone logs can be faked, generally when you need this information you get the records from the service provider, not the victims phone.

If I had to guess, perhaps this just isn't a significant enough offense for them to try and get a warrant for that information. But still. It seems kinda bs.

I find it highly dubious that they can prove much by having the actual phone. It's evidence, but pretty dubious evidence. I suppose if there were no records on the phone that would be evidence that it didn't happen.

Another thing is, and perhaps I just don't know enough about this case and the answer is obvious, but I'm unclear what this phone call without its contents is supposed to prove if it existed.

Dunno, I just found it strange that they insist on having the phone rather than just getting call logs from the provider.

 

[alasdairm]

Police: Two brothers told investigators they were paid by Jussie Smollett to stage attack

keeps changing but i am leaning towards believing he did stage the attack.

if so, it's weird and disappointing. it's just wrong and it wasted police time. not only that but it mocks real victims and devalues their whole experience.



alasdair

 

[JessFR]

Police: Two brothers told investigators they were paid by Jussie Smollett to stage attack

keeps changing but i am leaning towards believing he did stage the attack.

if so, it's weird and disappointing. it's just wrong and it wasted police time. not only that but it mocks real victims and devalues their whole experience.



alasdair

It's definitely looking bad. If they get solid proof this really was faked, then yeah, he should be charged with making a false report.

If it is indeed faked though, it makes me wonder what the motive is. It still doesn't make great sense to me that he'd do it to not get written off. Seems like there'd have to be more to it than that.

 

[nuttynutskin]

If it is indeed faked though, it makes me wonder what the motive is.

Make Trump supporters look bad... Fits the whole narrative.

 

[JessFR]

Make Trump supporters look bad... Fits the whole narrative.

I don't buy that. Anyone who's inclined to want to make trump supporters look bad is probably going realize that people are going to either already think trump supporters are this bad. Or they're not and will therefore call it a hoax no matter what the evidence says.

My point is, nobody is going to change their view over this. I find it hard to believe anyone politically inclined to want to make trump supporters look bad isn't going to realize that.

And with the risk of getting caught, best case scenario you accomplish nothing, worse case scenario you hurt your own cause.

Besides, it's a lot of work and risk for something that offers so little personal reward if that's the motive.

Which is why I tend to think that if it's a hoax, the motive might well involve something else entirely. Something we aren't aware of. Something we couldn't reasonably deduce.

 

[nuttynutskin]

So what do you think it could be?

 

[JGrimez]

The Jussie Smollette case is the Fyre Festival of hate crimes.

I knew the title of this thread would not age well.

i'm not one to attack alleged victims but i attack this alleged victim.

Unnecessary comment, I was clear that upon review of the evidence I no longer considered him an alleged victim, his status was downgraded to suspiciously dishonest so I was free to criticize him.

if so, it's weird and disappointing. it's just wrong and it wasted police time. not only that but it mocks real victims and devalues their whole experience.

You forgot about it also demonizing white Trump supporters and making them appear as violent racists. If that were true already - then there would be a slew of attacks and this guy wouldn't have to fabricate one to push the narrative (this is global news)

Besides, it's a lot of work and risk for something that offers so little personal reward if that's the motive.

As I stated: fame, sympathy, attention and pushing the narrative of Trump supporters being racist and randomly attacking minorities. Would've been huge praise from the Left if he had succeeded. He has a pathological personality and the only thing surprising here is that this guy is high-profile and should've been smart enough to know that he would get caught.

Now I wonder if they'll treat Smollett the same way that they did Roger Stone - whose only crime was the same, lying to authorities.

Breakdown of the original police report and changing details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7uBaHlRj8

Tis better to be thought a fool and remain silent then to open ones mouth and remove all doubt

Why peeps got to lie? When does that stop? Damn!

 

[JGrimez]

Well this is blowing up, as expected.

The latest: Smollett accused of paying men to stage attack. Receipt found for rope used as noose. Lakeview men claim they rehearsed attack with Smollett. Jussie's new lawyers deny everything.

Chicago Tribune has the hoax reported on page #14 today. But it was headline news when used to attack Trump supporters and push the liberal agenda.

Jussie Smollett is one of the kindest, most gentile human beings I know. I'm praying for his quick recovery.

This was an attempted modern day lynching. No one should have to fear for their life because of their sexuality or color of their skin. We must confront this hate

"We will not be erased" - Celebrities and activists are speaking out against hate after the racist, homophobic attack on Jussie Smollett

It appears that Jussie Smollett tried to manufacture a hate crime to make Trump supporters look bad and most of the media not only uncritically accepted his lies as facts for weeks, but attacked those who questioned the validity of his false story

Remember boys and girls, it's not a conspiracy when you're right & with all the obvious holes it seemed logical to question this disgusting hoax. This didn't age well at all!

<Mercury News: 'Is Trump Jr. pushing a Jussie Smollett conspiracy theory?>

It seems odd that someone whose career was going as well Jussie Smollett's would risk it all to stage this hoax, until you read his timeline where Smollett appeared OBSESSED with TDS. Trump Derangement Syndrome makes you do some crazy irrational stuff apparently

This Jussie Smollett situation is demonstrating that we need to have a very serious conversation about how toxic it is that victimhood is now a powerful currency in this country. It's extremely pernicious.

ABC/Disney fired Roseanne for one tweet. They now own Fox. Will they fire Smollett for staging a "hate crime", wasting valuable police resources, costing taxpayers a ton of money, and violating multiple Illinois criminal statutes?

For literally the last week those of us with actual sources knew what was happening in the Jussie Smollett case. CNN and other MSM only "broke" it after continuing the lie would have made them look foolish

Faking a hate crime is terrible. Faking a hate crime on the coldest night in Chicago in three decades, when no one in their right mind would be out, is terrible and stupid.

Twitter's coverage of the Jussie Smollett hoax hate crime has a certain slant that neglects to mention anything about it being a hoax or that he lied about his attackers. Interesting

Headline: 'Jussie Smollett attack investigation has shifted, police confirm'

 

[JGrimez]

Nice analysis from evolutionary behavioural scientist Gad Saad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5R1gJ2uM9Q

 

[Xorkoth]

It does look bad, and it's quite disappointing. It was interesting/alarming to see the instant polarization along idealogical lines before anything was known, however. People were like "it's obviously a fake, fuck that guy", or "it's obviously a hate crime, fuck you for jumping to conclusions" (that was me).

I guess we still don't know for sure but it seems that it was faked and I can accept that just fine. I would still prefer to err on the side of believing alleged victims in the absence of sufficient evidence in the future, though.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Something weird about all this. Wtf is this bullshit with the police needing the cell phones to determine if the claimed phone calls were made or not.

Phone logs can be faked, generally when you need this information you get the records from the service provider, not the victims phone.

If I had to guess, perhaps this just isn't a significant enough offense for them to try and get a warrant for that information. But still. It seems kinda bs.

...

Dunno, I just found it strange that they insist on having the phone rather than just getting call logs from the provider.

Which is easier, asking the victim to let the police check the phone or go thru the provider for the records? Asking the 'victim' to check their phone can also give you a quick indication as to their honesty - nothing to hide, share the phone, it costs you nothing and helps get the police off you and after your attackers. Don't share your phone and the questions increase as to 'what do you have to hide?'. Quite simple, actually - always ask the victim for their phone, or anything else that can help with the investigation. A real victim wouldn't have hesitated.

...

Now I wonder if they'll treat Smollett the same way that they did Roger Stone - whose only crime was the same, lying to authorities.

Breakdown of the original police report and changing details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7uBaHlRj8

Completely different. Stone lied to the feds. This is a local police department issue. At most he'd be cited with filing a fraudulent crime. Then ordered to pay for the costs involved with the investigation, and at most face a Felony (level 4?) and up to 3y in prison...at most. Not likely in Chicago (and those are the local laws, but I have doubt the local judges will punish him). But I'll come back to this in a second.

It does look bad, and it's quite disappointing. It was interesting/alarming to see the instant polarization along idealogical lines before anything was known, however. People were like "it's obviously a fake, fuck that guy", or "it's obviously a hate crime, fuck you for jumping to conclusions" (that was me).

I guess we still don't know for sure but it seems that it was faked and I can accept that just fine. I would still prefer to err on the side of believing alleged victims in the absence of sufficient evidence in the future, though.

I don't think anyone argues such attack, at the level of hate crime, are not abhorrent. It should outrage everyone. However, there are two factors that give me pause before shouting outrage over it. First, how many have been falsely raised as of late? It's a hot button for reaction that the media knows it can push, and MANY people continue to provide that immediate emotional response. Then when the facts come in and it's faked...where's the outrage? Where's even an apology or retraction? Where are those people who were so emotional in condemning it coming back with as much emotional response to both make amends with the falsely accused and in turn condemning the accuser of crying wolf? I'll be as mad as anyone, and fight for justice to be served, ONCE we know there was a reason for justice to be called upon.

My second hesitation is this particular instance began with WAY too many holes in it. At a minimum, we have Smollett finishing a sandwich at Subway then going home WITH the noose still on. Who would leave a noose still on? WHO?!?!?! Second, he wouldn't cooperate with the police when they arrived - asked for their cameras to be turned off, wouldn't provide his phone for them to check. What victim is going to think of these things and make a stink of it? Most victims, especially of a hate crime, ought to be shaken to their core - not thinking clearly, seeking the safety of the police and doing anything they ask in an effort to help the cops help the victim.

= = = =

Here's my question to you guys. IF this turns out to be a hoax, is paying the costs and maybe up to 3y in prison enough? Or should such hoaxers be charged with a hate crime? Should the punishment for inciting race division be equal to a hate crime?

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm just saying, rather than outrage towards either side, it's best to see how it plays out before reacting strongly one way or the other. Both sides of the debate were guilty in this case. Even now, unless I missed something, it's not for sure it was a fake although it looks bad. If the left doesn't condemn the faking of a hate crime when it's all said and done, that will be messed up because it will show that the narrative was more important than the reality. That's the thing that disturbs me about everything these days, is that for many people, furthering the narrative is what's important, never mind the facts. I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it either, but for me these times have been a series of lessons in not doing that.

I do not think someone who hoaxes this should be charged as severely as someone actually committing a hate crime, absolutely not. Violent crime should be punished higher than nonviolent crime. Someone hoaxing a hate crime is doing a deplorable thing, but not as deplorable as actually committing a hate crime.

 

[alasdairm]

ABC/Disney fired Roseanne for one tweet. They now own Fox. Will they fire Smollett for staging a "hate crime", wasting valuable police resources, costing taxpayers a ton of money, and violating multiple Illinois criminal statutes?

he forgot about it also demonizing white trump supporters and making them appear as violent racists...

alasdair