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The 2018 Trump Presidency thread

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alasdairm said:
sure they can :)

but seriously, it's not a matter of right and wrong - it's just different opinions mostly. i think recognizing this false dichotomy and finding a way to understand that we (all) are more alike than we are different would be a revolution.

think about much you dislike - hate even - donald trump (or hillary clinton). there's somebody else out there who hates hillary clinton as much as you hate donald trump. there's a lesson there.

alasdair
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haha, true and as always slipping a funny in there. nice.

agreed, it is not always about right and wrong, i've come to learn the world is more than black and white. i don't like either of them the same. though i have found that those close to me who voted for trump did so in good faith not of the people but of faith in the system; exercising their rights and i support that. making a decision is better than to be indecisive and has it's moments. imo it keeps moving things along even if it is not smoothly. better to get somewhere then be stuck and have things stagnate. that's part of my political grey area.

(i don't like to use the word hate because it's pretty final and serious. i'm a weird guy like that.)
 
Captain.Heroin said:
You were banned for a while, though.

I'm not going to say your brain is mush, I think that is an ad hom yes.
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He said I was banned for being racist. That's a pretty serious accusation and blatant lie.
I'm not going to get into why I was banned because I'll probably be banned again. But it was undeserved
You owe me an apology too if I'm being honest.


alasdairm said:
right? of course it is. but you know who disagrees? donald trump of course. he's made some pretty outlandish claims about voter fraud in 2016 and has failed to provide a single shred of evidence to back up his claims. so, yeah, i totally agree with you. it's just an assumption
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Well I just provided evidence from Associated Press and ABC news so anyone who still continues to deny it is a liar.

|~~ANT~~| said:
Grimez: don't believe everything the right wing media feeds you... Just because one side is lying doesn't mean the other side is telling the truth.
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Tim Pool is very left-wing. He's just based and calls out BS when he sees it. Just because someone is anti-left doesn't make them right-wing.
 
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alasdairm said:
are you two related?
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What's wrong with that statement? What you're trying to say with those quotes eludes me.
If customs are catching drugs coming through the borders, do they assume they're catching it all? There's obviously much more and it's impossible to know the true extent without checking everything. Dems who I spoke with went from "there's no evidence of voter fraud, conspiracy theorist" to "the incidences of voter fraud that you've found are infinitesimal" - yet elections can be decided by thousands of votes. Anyone against the thorough investigation of voter fraud or strengthening electoral integrity is suss. I've heard people say that black people don't have ID which is incorrect and racist.

alasdairm said:
what are your thoughts on the brian kemp situation, jgrimez?
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I haven't looked into it but I'm against all electoral fraud. Didn't say it was only happening from the Left.
I've heard that Republicans are worse for gerrymandering.
 
JGrimez said:
What's wrong with that statement? What you're trying to say with those quotes eludes me.
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you yourself claimed that "nobody knows the extent of voter fraud". now you're claiming that "anyone who still continues to deny it is a liar". by your own definition, you're guilty of assumption.

trump continues to claim widespread voter fraud which deprived him of the popular vote without providing any evidence. yesterday, sarah sanders stated in a briefing that trump won an "overwhelming majority" of 63 million votes. that's simply a lie*. from the federal election commission: clinton: 65,853,516; trump: 62,984,825

alasdair
 
atara said:
Obama didn't hold political rallies outside of election season..
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Wrong. Obama's travel, including rallies, for 2009 and 2010 as a starter. For a bigger view, Trump isn’t really campaigning earlier than other recent presidents. He’s just more upfront about it: (an article from Feb 2017, so perhaps skewed by coming into office)

In some ways, Trump’s visits around the country have been similar to those of his predecessors. In his first month in office, he went to Philadelphia to address a Republican congressional retreat, to Tampa to visit MacDill Air Force Base, to North Charleston, S.C., for an event at a Boeing facility, and to Melbourne, Fla., for his campaign rally.

That’s four presidential days of public events outside Washington, Maryland and Virginia within his first month as president. Within their presidencies’ first months, Barack Obama had five; George W. Bush also had four; and George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton each had three, as you can see below.
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alasdairm said:
you yourself claimed that "nobody knows the extent of voter fraud". now you're claiming that "anyone who still continues to deny it is a liar". by your own definition, you're guilty of assumption.
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Are you missing a split in points? i mean we can say 'nobody knows how deep the water is' and separately claim 'nobody can claim there isn't water'. Unless I'm misreading JG's intent in the second statement.

alasdairm said:
rump continues to claim widespread voter fraud which deprived him of the popular vote without providing any evidence. yesterday, sarah sanders stated in a briefing that trump won an "overwhelming majority" of 63 million votes. that's simply a lie*. from the federal election commission: clinton: 65,853,516; trump: 62,984,825

alasdair
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Jokingly, I wanna say he DID get an overwhelming majority....of those ~63m votes. It's the other 66m he didn't fare so well with.
 
alasdairm said:
trump criticised obama endlessly for using executive orders. the administration - and republicans generally - talk a lot about how important the rule of law is.

now this double-whammy: Can Trump revoke birthright citizenship? Nearly all on left and right say no.

yet more blatant hypocrisy.

alasdair
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Hypocrisy is a pet peeve of mine, one I cannot abide by from anyone. However, while I condemn Trump's use of a tool he said should not be abused this way, there is still the standing issue that he didn't invent it. I know it was abused under Obama, and his Democratic congress didn't close up the loophole when they had the chance to prevent Repubs from using it :\ Fwiw, I am pretty confident Presidents prior to Obama also misused this tool, though it became more prevalent under Obama and now the outrage of Trump reaching for it might get this addressed. I'm happy to see left and right say no, hopefully they will close the loophole before he abuses it further.

This will sound like I'm defending him, and I try not to. But if condemns the use of it, and nobody takes that authority away from the Presidential office, is he at fault for using the tools left available to him? Yes, he could abstain from it, but if he has things to do and a tool is available, I can see any President using it until it's taken away. Maybe, in finding the good, his use of it WILL cause a change to the laws to prevent this for future Presidents?
 
TheLoveBandit said:
Are you missing a split in points? i mean we can say 'nobody knows how deep the water is' and separately claim 'nobody can claim there isn't water'. Unless I'm misreading JG's intent in the second statement.
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in one statement he's stating nobody can know the extent. in the second, he's using - or certainly implying - a certain extent to support his case. the two statements contradict each other. seems like a case of wanting cake and eating it.

TheLoveBandit said:
...there is still the standing issue that he didn't invent it.
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i think that's irrelevant.

TheLoveBandit said:
...is he at fault for using the tools left available to him?
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yes he is when he constantly berated his predecessor for using the same tool. if it was such a problem for obama to use it, why's it not also a problem for trump? it's just cynical, blatant hypocrisy. just like the vacations, his use of insecure technology (lock him up!), his ties to wall street, conflicts of interest, health, etc.

:\

alasdair
 
JGrimez said:
He said I was banned for being racist. That's a pretty serious accusation and blatant lie.
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You can PM him if you feel personally offended. If people are perceiving you as a racist, it's probably something you're doing or saying, especially because no one can see you from any of our perspectives.

You can also politely ask people to not call you racist. I think this might go a long way in establishing some politeness and personal boundaries.
 
alasdairm said:
i think that's irrelevant.

yes he is when he constantly berated his predecessor for using the same tool. if it was such a problem for obama to use it, why's it not also a problem for trump? it's just cynical, blatant hypocrisy. just like the vacations, his use of insecure technology (lock him up!), his ties to wall street, conflicts of interest, health, etc.
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I recognize that dismissive wave of the hand. I think I've seen it before when anyone raises a a counterargument, but the initial person who had issue doesn't want to consider anything beyond their singular focus. Both sides seem to do that quite a bit - limit the scope of discussion to not allow ideas or facts that conflict with their statement. I suppose that goes hand in hand with people having varying opinions - all depends upon what they are willing to consider and what they won't and so it is 'irrelevant'.

If you are angry at his use of the executive order - totally relevant.

If you are angry at his hypocrisy, you're right - irrelevant. Given the other examples you list, it seems this was your intent (and as I type this, point was most obviously BLATANT HYPOCRISY, derrrr), so I'll agree he is hypocritical.
 
|~~ANT~~| said:
No, they don't. You're not listening.
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communication is a two-way street. i am listening. i'll admit perhaps i am not fully understanding his point but perhaps he's not making it as clearly as he (or you) think he is.

TheLoveBandit said:
Both sides seem to do that quite a bit - limit the scope of discussion to not allow ideas or facts that conflict with their statement.
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i'm not disallowing your ideas. i am disagreeing with them.

TheLoveBandit said:
If you are angry at his hypocrisy...
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i am angry at his hypocrisy.

alasdair
 
atara said:
the incidence of voter fraud has been very low
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Unless he said the incidence is high, I don't see the contradiction... He said "voter fraud exists (and here is evidence of it)" but he didn't assign any value to it.
TLB said:
we can say 'nobody knows how deep the water is' and separately claim 'nobody can claim there isn't water'.
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Am I missing something?
 
TheLoveBandit said:
UNITING

How many times did Obama meet with a few hundred white leaders?

***TheLoveBandit....

You serious??? Have you seen an Obama rally? I've seen lots of Obama rallies with 10,000 people or more... Half the crowd is white. So by my calculations he has meet with HUNDREDS Of THOUSANDS of white people. And I'm guessing lots of them were big leaders in their Industries
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*Captain Heroin
*Swilow
*Alasdair
*Jessfr
*Atara
*** And many others sorry if i forgot all you names... My bad.

You guys are the shit. Thanks for everything.

I'm done.
 
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