Cream Gravy?
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 12,438
I'm sure you'd fit in better with some Vietnam vets seeing as most of them didn't volunteer.
CEPS Well Hung Parliament (CEPS Social/Off Topic)
- Thread starter Escher's Waterfall
- Start date
w01fg4ng
Bluelighter
Cream Gravy?
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 12,438
Flew right over my head heh 
Mel22
Bluelight Crew
Hello CEP.
How are we all feeling about the state of the world right now then eh?
How likely would you say revolution is in the next decade first of all?
1 being there has never been a revolution in history revolution doesn’t exist
and 10: a revolution of some sort is most certainly coming in the western world within the next decade
Scales are good and that is the scale
Ty in advance for your numerical only responses.
How are we all feeling about the state of the world right now then eh?
How likely would you say revolution is in the next decade first of all?
1 being there has never been a revolution in history revolution doesn’t exist
and 10: a revolution of some sort is most certainly coming in the western world within the next decade
Scales are good and that is the scale
Ty in advance for your numerical only responses.
Mel22
Bluelight Crew
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Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
4
(Explanation: I think many people would like a revolution. However we've been led to complacency so dramatically that it's hard for me to imagine it happening. I think it will be more than 10 years if it happens. it also depends on what country you're talking about. I'm rating for the USA).
(Explanation: I think many people would like a revolution. However we've been led to complacency so dramatically that it's hard for me to imagine it happening. I think it will be more than 10 years if it happens. it also depends on what country you're talking about. I'm rating for the USA).
Mel22
Bluelight Crew
Ty SHADOW. That complacency thing, with the media, ad companies and so on sure is a bitch if I ever done saw one.
What about for Aus? Would your number be the same or different?
What about for Aus? Would your number be the same or different?
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I couldn't say, not being Australian. But from what I gather from Bluelight interactions, Australians seem less fed up with their system so I'd go with 2 or 3.
tathra
bluelighter
on a scale of 1 to ten i've been at "lets guillotine the rich and then eat them" for quite a while now
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
If I rated it based on how I FEEL, then probably 8. But I think Mel asked how likely we think it actually is to happen.
Mel22
Bluelight Crew
Indeed SHADOW, and ty for your considered responses.
Pls revise and advise TATHR.
Pls revise and advise TATHR.
um....i just wrote a big post but then saw this;
so my answer is 6
it's a bloody mess.
i guess i'm not feeling too hopeful, because i have just been reading up about the GOP and "proud boys" links.
seems like a fascist blackshirt army. when i say "seems", i mean "is".
they've pretty much got the whole thing working their way - vicious street gangs beating those who resist, federal law enforcement don't seem interested in touching them, they've got friendly press that will run whatever lies the party/leader wants to go with (ie "proud boys" attended a function the GOP held for them in a republican owned building, ambushed and gang-bashed a bunch of leftists who were leaving a protest. fox news blamed the left - the ones who were kicked and stomped).
they do so with impunity, whilst being hosted by the ruling party - who themselves, have a created an environment in which they are unaccountable.
i've always suspected that the USA could easily fall into the hands of fascists - but even still, i'm shocked at how quickly it has happened.
i think we all grew up taking democracy for granted.
i'm increasingly pessimistic about the state of the world. with the USA sliding headlong into being a fully-fledged authoritarian state, there is no turning back from that.
when the US goes, we (australia) will follow soon after (though frankly we are already quite a long way along that road ourselves).
our democracy is largely a farce anyway - it's theatre - but it still has the possibility of democratic reform...until corruption is so rife that there is zero accountability in elections and other democratic processes.
once democracy has been eroded to the fascist state trump and bannon engineered (if they succeed in pulling it off, i mean) revolution is essential.
the thing i'm acutely aware of is that trump is the shameless bully boy pushing this shit through, but he's not the leader to worry about.
he's a coldhearted buffoon, obviously - but it is the leaders of the future i dread to think about.
now that we've reached "post-truth", "post-govt-accountability" and "post-democracy" - what comes next?
i can't imagine ruthless oligarchs seizing power of the world's richest and most powerful nation and deciding that it's mission accomplished; put your feet up and call it a day.
i don't even want to speculate about what i worry about, post-trump...because really, it's too dark ot contemplate.
seriously, if we want to preserve democracy, the time to stand up and fight is now.
it depends on many things, but i have my doubts.
the thing about revolution is that i doubt a developed nation will ever be toppled in the "traditional" manner (ie like russia in 1917). new tactics are needed - i don't think occupying train stations and post offices will cut it nowadays.
the state apparatus is so much larger and infinitely more powerful than it was 100 years ago in tsarist russia.
the surveillance state is enormous, as are the armed forces and various police units which would protect the state from the people should we ever rise up (in australia or the states, hypothetically)
i think any revolutions we could potentially stage would have to be based on some kind of tactic that is probably yet to be invented.
it was once about overthrowing the means of production - but perhaps the most effective way of throwing a spanner in the works nowadays is to shut down/sabotage/seize/occupy/destroy information systems.
cyber warfare is hardly a new thing any more though. all the big players are in on it.
in terms of scale, i like to say i'm a glass half full kind of guy - but to give us a fighting chance (and because i like sixes) - i'm going to say 6
.
some chance, but who the fuck knows?
i think the next 20 years will see a lot of turbulence related to ecological collapse and climate change.
climate change will influence and drive most - if not all - of the wars of the next 100 years.
cities and farmland will flood, and deserts will expand in arid areas. hurricanes, monsoons, cyclones are only going to get more fierce and more frequent.
out of desperation, people power may affect real political change - or conversely, people may just become more greedy, more self-interested, more short sighted and insecure.
i expect nationalism will flourish - but i guess that is what is happening now.
i hate to be a pessimist about these things, but the current state of the world does not give me hope.
from saudi arabia to indonesia to the UK, australia, the USA - the world seems to be gripped with fanaticism, violence, insularity.
capitalism is in terminal decline, but rather than heading to some next step in our social and political evolution - it seems like we are devolving and reverting back to feudalism.
one of my favourite quote though is from anarchist poet and musician tuli kupferberg -
"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."
i like to remind myself of that from time to time, because shit is bleak as fuck right now.
so my answer is 6
it's a bloody mess.
i guess i'm not feeling too hopeful, because i have just been reading up about the GOP and "proud boys" links.
seems like a fascist blackshirt army. when i say "seems", i mean "is".
they've pretty much got the whole thing working their way - vicious street gangs beating those who resist, federal law enforcement don't seem interested in touching them, they've got friendly press that will run whatever lies the party/leader wants to go with (ie "proud boys" attended a function the GOP held for them in a republican owned building, ambushed and gang-bashed a bunch of leftists who were leaving a protest. fox news blamed the left - the ones who were kicked and stomped).
they do so with impunity, whilst being hosted by the ruling party - who themselves, have a created an environment in which they are unaccountable.
i've always suspected that the USA could easily fall into the hands of fascists - but even still, i'm shocked at how quickly it has happened.
i think we all grew up taking democracy for granted.
i'm increasingly pessimistic about the state of the world. with the USA sliding headlong into being a fully-fledged authoritarian state, there is no turning back from that.
when the US goes, we (australia) will follow soon after (though frankly we are already quite a long way along that road ourselves).
our democracy is largely a farce anyway - it's theatre - but it still has the possibility of democratic reform...until corruption is so rife that there is zero accountability in elections and other democratic processes.
once democracy has been eroded to the fascist state trump and bannon engineered (if they succeed in pulling it off, i mean) revolution is essential.
the thing i'm acutely aware of is that trump is the shameless bully boy pushing this shit through, but he's not the leader to worry about.
he's a coldhearted buffoon, obviously - but it is the leaders of the future i dread to think about.
now that we've reached "post-truth", "post-govt-accountability" and "post-democracy" - what comes next?
i can't imagine ruthless oligarchs seizing power of the world's richest and most powerful nation and deciding that it's mission accomplished; put your feet up and call it a day.
i don't even want to speculate about what i worry about, post-trump...because really, it's too dark ot contemplate.
seriously, if we want to preserve democracy, the time to stand up and fight is now.
MEL said:
it depends on many things, but i have my doubts.
the thing about revolution is that i doubt a developed nation will ever be toppled in the "traditional" manner (ie like russia in 1917). new tactics are needed - i don't think occupying train stations and post offices will cut it nowadays.
the state apparatus is so much larger and infinitely more powerful than it was 100 years ago in tsarist russia.
the surveillance state is enormous, as are the armed forces and various police units which would protect the state from the people should we ever rise up (in australia or the states, hypothetically)
i think any revolutions we could potentially stage would have to be based on some kind of tactic that is probably yet to be invented.
it was once about overthrowing the means of production - but perhaps the most effective way of throwing a spanner in the works nowadays is to shut down/sabotage/seize/occupy/destroy information systems.
cyber warfare is hardly a new thing any more though. all the big players are in on it.
in terms of scale, i like to say i'm a glass half full kind of guy - but to give us a fighting chance (and because i like sixes) - i'm going to say 6
.
some chance, but who the fuck knows?
i think the next 20 years will see a lot of turbulence related to ecological collapse and climate change.
climate change will influence and drive most - if not all - of the wars of the next 100 years.
cities and farmland will flood, and deserts will expand in arid areas. hurricanes, monsoons, cyclones are only going to get more fierce and more frequent.
out of desperation, people power may affect real political change - or conversely, people may just become more greedy, more self-interested, more short sighted and insecure.
i expect nationalism will flourish - but i guess that is what is happening now.
i hate to be a pessimist about these things, but the current state of the world does not give me hope.
from saudi arabia to indonesia to the UK, australia, the USA - the world seems to be gripped with fanaticism, violence, insularity.
capitalism is in terminal decline, but rather than heading to some next step in our social and political evolution - it seems like we are devolving and reverting back to feudalism.
one of my favourite quote though is from anarchist poet and musician tuli kupferberg -
"Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."
i like to remind myself of that from time to time, because shit is bleak as fuck right now.
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Mel22
Bluelight Crew
Ty SPACEY, your responses are considered in full as always. I’m currently pondering this myself, and ur numbers will help me figure out my number perhaps, so keep up the good work CEP!
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cduggles
Bluelight Crew
4
(But I hope 7.)
Brief explanation: I think change is needed desperately, and I hope things don't have to get too much worse before things really change but there is still such a thing as too much too quickly.
Oops my moderate side is showing!!
(But I hope 7.)
Brief explanation: I think change is needed desperately, and I hope things don't have to get too much worse before things really change but there is still such a thing as too much too quickly.
Oops my moderate side is showing!!
SheWasLvL18
Bluelight Crew
7
I think people are generally dissatisfied and one way or another things will change within 10 years drastically.
I think people are generally dissatisfied and one way or another things will change within 10 years drastically.
Cream Gravy?
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 12,438
2
There is no such thing as a shared identity any longer, which is a necessity for an uprising. But I could be wrong, hence a 2, instead of a 1.
There is no such thing as a shared identity any longer, which is a necessity for an uprising. But I could be wrong, hence a 2, instead of a 1.
Woah this thread is on fire!
I'd say 2, at least in the next 1-2 decades.
Basically very unlikely.
The only thing I see changing that radically would be an unfolding climate catastrophe destroying food supplies.
Availability (or lack thereof) of food is often what's triggered revolutions in the past. Rather like it's role in triggering the civil war in Syria.
When people are literally starving or suffering real basic hardships, they quickly become radical.
I'd say 2, at least in the next 1-2 decades.
Basically very unlikely.
The only thing I see changing that radically would be an unfolding climate catastrophe destroying food supplies.
Availability (or lack thereof) of food is often what's triggered revolutions in the past. Rather like it's role in triggering the civil war in Syria.
When people are literally starving or suffering real basic hardships, they quickly become radical.
cduggles
Bluelight Crew
I knew mel22 would stop posting when I answered her sirenic call. Please come back?!?!
Cream Gravy?
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 12,438
I realized the other day when volunteering at the air show, that I'm really not that viscous towards Trumpenproletariat. Lots of folks came up to buy beer from our stand, with MAGA hats on, and I handed it to them with a smile on my face and a 'have a good day'. They're just misguided souls. They believe they're doing the right thing. But so did the Spanish in the Inquisition... Hmph.
Can you hate people for doing evil things when they believe they're doing God's work?
This is a big conflict for me lately because my father is very pro-Trump (he creamed over Brett getting on the court) but I know that it's just because he thinks his Catholic beliefs should be forced on everyone. Yet he doesn't hate me. And I make a point of flaunting my anti-Catholic lifestyle when around him just to ensure he knows I disagree. Yet somehow we still love and respect each other.
I'm experiencing a frustrating amount of cognitive dissonance of late.
Can you hate people for doing evil things when they believe they're doing God's work?
This is a big conflict for me lately because my father is very pro-Trump (he creamed over Brett getting on the court) but I know that it's just because he thinks his Catholic beliefs should be forced on everyone. Yet he doesn't hate me. And I make a point of flaunting my anti-Catholic lifestyle when around him just to ensure he knows I disagree. Yet somehow we still love and respect each other.
I'm experiencing a frustrating amount of cognitive dissonance of late.
it's not about hating the people, it's about opposing and challenging the myths and beliefs that got them there - and the systems that have made the whole thing possible.
people who think that trump is just another brand to go along with are get fucked over just as much as everyone else - but if you watch fox news and consume only information that is uncritical of trump, you may never be presented with enough knowledge to understand the harm he is doing.
a lot of the trump admin's token gestures cause a lot of hurt and suffering - like the continual attacks on transgender rights - because it shores up trump's base, who mostly have never been exposed to the sort of people who are affected.
i don't really know what goes on in those people's minds, but i suspect it's got everything to do with "us and them" and suspicion of people fighting for rights that you can't understand or relate to.
sure, they might not see the harm in a president ridiculing rape survivors, or constantly accusing black people of being unintelligent - because trump doesn't aim his messages at an intellectual crowd. i don't suspect many trump supporters care about how polluted the planet is, until you tell them they can't fish in the local stream because it's too polluted - and that being the case, they'll probably never realise that will happen more and more since trump gutted the EPA and environmental funding.
it's important to try to find issues that such people can relate to if you want to talk to them about it.
if you don't want to talk to them about it, that's understandable too.
i find it hard to believe that anyone can fail to see the cruelty in trump.
there's no love there, there's no god there - he's a nasty, greedy, accused rapist who is misogynistic and spews hate and contempt every time he speaks.
his political career has been punctuated by incitements or encouragement of violence.
look man, i grew up in a pretty conservative place - and i found it really stifling. the problem with communities like that IME is that if you don't get out and explore new horizons, you can get stuck in that sort of mentality yourself - or end up on the receiving end of it, getting singled out for one reason or another, if you think, act or look different to everybody else.
i think trump has deliberately appealed to the ignorance of his audience - and he deliberately divides people with resentment and fear.
to me though, ignorance is no excuse for supporting someone who is launching an all-out assault on your community - i don't care how much he panders to your prejudices, there's a line people have to draw when it comes to decency and humanity.
...but that's just me, i think democracy is everyone's duty to protect.
people who think that trump is just another brand to go along with are get fucked over just as much as everyone else - but if you watch fox news and consume only information that is uncritical of trump, you may never be presented with enough knowledge to understand the harm he is doing.
a lot of the trump admin's token gestures cause a lot of hurt and suffering - like the continual attacks on transgender rights - because it shores up trump's base, who mostly have never been exposed to the sort of people who are affected.
i don't really know what goes on in those people's minds, but i suspect it's got everything to do with "us and them" and suspicion of people fighting for rights that you can't understand or relate to.
sure, they might not see the harm in a president ridiculing rape survivors, or constantly accusing black people of being unintelligent - because trump doesn't aim his messages at an intellectual crowd. i don't suspect many trump supporters care about how polluted the planet is, until you tell them they can't fish in the local stream because it's too polluted - and that being the case, they'll probably never realise that will happen more and more since trump gutted the EPA and environmental funding.
it's important to try to find issues that such people can relate to if you want to talk to them about it.
if you don't want to talk to them about it, that's understandable too.
i find it hard to believe that anyone can fail to see the cruelty in trump.
there's no love there, there's no god there - he's a nasty, greedy, accused rapist who is misogynistic and spews hate and contempt every time he speaks.
his political career has been punctuated by incitements or encouragement of violence.
look man, i grew up in a pretty conservative place - and i found it really stifling. the problem with communities like that IME is that if you don't get out and explore new horizons, you can get stuck in that sort of mentality yourself - or end up on the receiving end of it, getting singled out for one reason or another, if you think, act or look different to everybody else.
i think trump has deliberately appealed to the ignorance of his audience - and he deliberately divides people with resentment and fear.
to me though, ignorance is no excuse for supporting someone who is launching an all-out assault on your community - i don't care how much he panders to your prejudices, there's a line people have to draw when it comes to decency and humanity.
...but that's just me, i think democracy is everyone's duty to protect.