Canada - Atheist nurse fights to end mandatory 12-step addiction treatment for health staff in Vancouver, and wins

S.J.B.

S.J.B.

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12-step troublemaker: One nurse's fight for choice in addiction treatment
Bethany Lindsay
CBC
September 8th, 2018

There's a saying in Alcoholics Anonymous: "It works if you work it." But it did not work for Byron Wood.

Wood is an atheist, and found it impossible to put his life into the hands of a higher power, as the 12 steps require. He's also trained as a nurse, and knew the scientific evidence in support of AA is far from conclusive.

...

When Wood stopped going to meetings, he lost his job, as well as his registration as a nurse.

He'd offered to attend meetings with secular support groups, see a counsellor and undergo regular blood testing, but that alternative plan was rejected by his doctor, according to emails provided to CBC.

Wood also asked to be referred to a new doctor who could recommend secular alternatives to AA, but his union informed him that it only uses addictions specialists who follow the 12-step model, the emails show.
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Read the full story here.
 
So much for using evidenced based treatment to help those working in the Canadian medical field.
 
Twelve step is a crock of shit. I went to meetings off and on for four years and everyone just spews the same palaver as everyone else in the room just using different words. Multiply that by four years and I'm pretty sure I've heard every concept that has ever been said in AA ever. For the people it works for, great. But I hate it when people act as if it's the end all of addiction treatment and if it doesn't work for you, there's something wrong with you because it should work for everyone. I tend to have little patience anyway with people who talk too much and people in AA LOOOVE to talk. I find meetings boring, and maybe some folks would rather not spend their time around a bunch of other dysfunctionally co-dependent current or former addicts. Oh, and I LOVE that tired old line about AA not being a religious organization. Bullshit it isn't. If a therapist told me to pray, I'd call them a quack and walk out. In fact, I did that at one treatment center where I was considering going to IOP when they told me AA/NA is "evidence based." Where's the evidence? AA/NA say they don't keep statistics because it would compromise anonymity, but I think they don't keep stats to keep the world from learning just what a dismal failure they actually are. I was pretty lucky I didn't get sent to mandatory AA/NA meetings after my DUI because I would be one of those people suing. Seven US Federal District courts, in addition to the Tennessee and New York Supreme Courts have ruled that government imposed meeting attendance violates Establishment Clause protections.
 
I agree there should be different options available for people who do not want to use 12 step meetings. That said, other types of groups are not as common so it may be more difficult to create a support network but I've found some of the alternatives to be helpful.
 
12 step may be a crock of shit but when you get registered to look after other people they expect you not to have 2 drink drive crashes, a trip to the psych ward after too much of everything and then to go off the deep end again on heroin.

all he had to do was bite his tongue and play the game

that was too hard?

principles of this or that aside, when you fuck up you have to be pragmatic and work within the system even if you dont like an aspect of it
 
pofacedhoe said:
principles of this or that aside, when you fuck up you have to be pragmatic and work within the system even if you dont like an aspect of it
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Then how would anything ever get changed? I agree that I would keep my head down in his situation as well but somebody has to fight for these things and it has to be somebody who's involved in them. You can't bring a rights-violation case to court if it isn't your rights being violated. This guy is fighting for something that could make a positive change for everyone who comes after him, so props to him.
 
Legerity said:
I agree there should be different options available for people who do not want to use 12 step meetings. That said, other types of groups are not as common so it may be more difficult to create a support network but I've found some of the alternatives to be helpful.
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It's not that difficult to create a support network. One of the best things I did for myself was to join groups and clubs that revolve around my hobbies, and that's one of the things that's laid out early on in Rational Recovery: have a circle of friends which revolve around common interests and not common problems. And if I have a problem that revolves around my dual diagnosis issues, I talk to a trained professional, not seek the often not-so-good advice that comes from the laypeople in recovery support groups. The worst example I can think of is the NA sponsor that kept hounding me to go off my psychiatric medications. It is a mystery to me why these peoples' opinions are so sought after by many. If you get in trouble for DUI, you don't ask a layperson for advice, you get a lawyer, because everyone's circumstances are nuanced, which will affect the outcome, and only someone studied in the nuances of the law is going to understand. I don't understand why recovery shouldn't be thought of any differently. Just to reiterate what I said earlier, one of my major problems with 12 step is the persisting belief that it should work for everyone, and if it doesn't, there is something wrong with you. Again, everyone's circumstances are nuanced. Recovery is not a cookie-cutter endeavor, but that's how 12 step makes it out to be.

S.J.P. said:
Then how would anything ever get changed? I agree that I would keep my head down in his situation as well but somebody has to fight for these things and it has to be somebody who's involved in them. You can't bring a rights-violation case to court if it isn't your rights being violated. This guy is fighting for something that could make a positive change for everyone who comes after him, so props to him.
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Agree 100 percent
 
Atheist nurse's fight against mandatory AA will go before B.C. Human Rights Tribunal
Bethany Lindsay
CBC
June 12th, 2019
A B.C. nurse who lost his job when he refused to attend a 12-step program for addiction will get a chance to argue he was discriminated against as an atheist.

Byron Wood contends Alcoholics Anonymous's emphasis on placing your life in the hands of a higher power simply won't work for someone who doesn't hold any religious beliefs.

That's an argument worth considering, according to the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal. On Wednesday, it denied Vancouver Coastal Health's application to dismiss Wood's complaint alleging discrimination on the basis of religion.

"The tribunal has not [previously] considered whether the 12‐step program utilized by Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous … may discriminate against persons with substance abuse disorders who are atheists," tribunal member Walter Rilkoff wrote in Wednesday's decision.

"In my view, there is a public interest in addressing that issue."
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Read the full story here.
 
Byron Wood contends Alcoholics Anonymous's emphasis on placing your life in the hands of a higher power simply won't work for someone who doesn't hold any religious beliefs.
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Technically the "higher power" can be anything, just something external to the person undergoing treatment.

I personally can't go for that. I dislike the lack of agency. There's an old adage that "if you're getting clean you should do it for yourself", well, from my perspective AA/NA intentionally deny that - you're not getting clean for yourself, you're supposed to accept being forever powerless and condemned to have an external force govern your life, which seems to me exactly what addiction is. You let some external force like opiates or alcohol control you.

Maybe I'm not jaded enough or I've burnt my brains out on psychedelics but I believe if you out your mind to it, an addiction can become a managed dependency, which can be tapered off gradually as the life stressors which promoted the addiction are either removed or lessened, and more fruitful pursuits are groomed to engage oneself with - rather than spending all one's time sick, too high to function, or trying to acquire more drugs. Baby steps, but focusing everyday on making your situation better in some minor way.

So yeah, I'm all for the freedom to choose your own particular structured framework to get sober under. By no means should it be limited to "you'll always be a sinner, trust in God to fix you".
 
Atheist nurse wins fight to end mandatory 12-step addiction treatment for health staff in Vancouver
Bethany Lindsay
CBC
December 11th, 2019
Health-care professionals who work in Vancouver-area hospitals and medical clinics will no longer be required to attend 12-step programs if they want to keep their jobs after being diagnosed with addiction.

The change comes as a result of a settlement between public health authority Vancouver Coastal Health and former nurse Byron Wood, who filed a human rights complaint alleging he was discriminated against as an atheist when he was fired for quitting Alcoholics Anonymous.

Wood told CBC the agreement was reached after a month of negotiations.

"I'm really happy about the outcome — it means that VCH employees are not required to attend 12-step rehab centres, 12-step meetings, or participate in any 12-step activities if they object for religious reasons," he said in an email.

"It's what I've been fighting for, for the last six years."
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Read the full story here.

Fantastic news!
 
That's great news. I'm not one of those people who hate 12 step groups. My experiences with NA for instance have been generally positive.

But making people attend them is bullshit. Noone should be made to go if they don't want too. They don't work for everyone.

It's not just for the sake of the people forced to go there though. It's not doing anyone else at the meetings any favors by having people there who are there solely because they've been ordered to be.
 
aihfl said:
Twelve step is a crock of shit. I went to meetings off and on for four years and everyone just spews the same palaver as everyone else in the room just using different words. Multiply that by four years and I'm pretty sure I've heard every concept that has ever been said in AA ever. For the people it works for, great. But I hate it when people act as if it's the end all of addiction treatment and if it doesn't work for you, there's something wrong with you because it should work for everyone. I tend to have little patience anyway with people who talk too much and people in AA LOOOVE to talk. I find meetings boring, and maybe some folks would rather not spend their time around a bunch of other dysfunctionally co-dependent current or former addicts. Oh, and I LOVE that tired old line about AA not being a religious organization. Bullshit it isn't. If a therapist told me to pray, I'd call them a quack and walk out. In fact, I did that at one treatment center where I was considering going to IOP when they told me AA/NA is "evidence based." Where's the evidence? AA/NA say they don't keep statistics because it would compromise anonymity, but I think they don't keep stats to keep the world from learning just what a dismal failure they actually are. I was pretty lucky I didn't get sent to mandatory AA/NA meetings after my DUI because I would be one of those people suing. Seven US Federal District courts, in addition to the Tennessee and New York Supreme Courts have ruled that government imposed meeting attendance violates Establishment Clause protections.
Click to expand...

if you're depserate enough you don't care that like 80 percent of the people there are christian. I mean i think most of them talking to jesus to get clean are morons, I wish i was stupid enough to believe mysefl, but I still go pretty often because there is some good advice in there.

the prayer thing the say "prayer or meditation" Meditation is infact scientifically proven to improve ones physical and mental health in all kinds of metrics. Athiests have done a decent job "de-Christing" 12 step programs but I agree it need to be rewritten again to be fully secular.
 
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