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Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2018 Thread

Another high profile shooting at a Trader Joe's in Los Angeles

TUDIO CITY (CBSLA) — Police were responding to a report of a shooting at the Trader Joe’s near Hyperion Avenue and Silver Lake Boulevard in Silver Lake Saturday afternoon.
According to the Los Angeles Police Dept., a the man who shot his grandmother and girlfriend in South L.A. around 1:30 p.m. and fled in a 2015 Toyota Camry.

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/201...le-active-shooter-at-silver-lake-trader-joes/
 
I don't know if it has been brought up in the last 52 pages of this thread but does anyone else feel like most children aren't getting proper gun education and training any longer? Even in the 90s when I was a young child it seemed like there was a lot of effort put in at the state level to ensure most kids were familiar with gun safety and how they worked. I think that really helps to normalize guns for everyone, meaning they don't have the allure of being a powerful device that can kill you if you look at it. Most everyone I knew growing up learned on bb/pellet guns and .22 rifles. We would play all day as a group just target shooting and later on hunting. We even had marksmanship teams at our local school and were allowed to walk around with .22 rifles on campus before Columbine happened.

I'm of the opinion that you can never get rid of all guns and taking them away from citizens just leads to criminals and the state being the only ones with them. I grew up in the sticks so I know relying on a police officer to protect me from a criminal with a gun isn't going to work. I'd be dead 20 minutes before he got to me. I've never really been a gun nut but I do own a lot of them mostly because they were given to me. I only have one AR-15 (a very basic one) and I plan on building another this year. I also plan on building a battle rifle (probably a surplus FN FAL) for hunting/giggles. I mostly enjoy guns because I like building and fixing them. I'd shoot a lot more often if I could afford it though. I mainly use my guns for pest control. I didn't even carry a handgun until I was well into my 20s and only carry it to protect myself from these nut jobs and the carjackers.

It's just odd to me that children's gun education is never really discussed when these shootings happens. I've always believed that every person in the USA should have marksmanship training. Instead we get all this talk about banning this and banning that followed by a guy yelling "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!". I'm firmly in the camp that supports the 2nd but I think we could all put in more effort towards showing people with no experience how to operate and safely use firearms. I've taken 5 people shooting for the first time this year, one of which was very anti-gun ownership, and he grinned like a opossum after firing the AR. He's not fully pro-gun by any means but at least he understands that they aren't evil just because they happen to be black.
 
There is a complete lack of gun safety education anymore. When I was in middle school getting a gun and hunter safety certification was part of our seventh grade PE curriculum and we had to fire a 12 gauge shotgun at skeet range they had set up behind the school. .22 rifles were basically considered toys. I think you're confusing the issue here. The problem is not gun safety education it's deranged people going on sprees.
 
LOS ANGELES — One person was killed at a Trader Joe’s in Los Angeles on Saturday, when an armed shooting suspect exchanged gunfire with the police, ran into the store and barricaded himself with hostages for about three hours before surrendering, city officials said.
The victim, a young woman, was fatally shot inside the store, Chief Michel R. Moore of the Los Angeles Police Department said on Saturday night. It was unclear whether she was killed by the gunman or in the crossfire with the police.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/...lights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront
 
Argument over a handicapped parking space results in a so-called self-defense shooting. Of course it's in Florida

A man who shot and killed another man in Florida this week during an argument over a parking space will not be arrested or charged by the sheriff’s office because of the state’s so-called Stand Your Ground law, the authorities said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/...lights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront
 
aihfl said:
Argument over a handicapped parking space results in a so-called self-defense shooting. Of course it's in Florida

A man who shot and killed another man in Florida this week during an argument over a parking space will not be arrested or charged by the sheriff’s office because of the state’s so-called Stand Your Ground law, the authorities said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/...lights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront
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That is so fucked up. So if some cunt calls you a 'cunt' in Florida, you are quite within your rights to shoot the cunt because you are standing your ground? This is why I have no desire to visit that godforsaken hell hole called America. You're all fucked up and deserve what you fuckin get. Cunts...
 
Well, the guy who did the shooting did get violently slammed to the ground. Whether or not that rises to the level of fearing for your life is another story. There have been plenty of cases where people tried to use this defense and failed, most memorably a person getting popcorn thrown at them in a movie theater and shooting the popcorn thrower and another case where a guy got into an altercation with some African-American kids blasting hip hop music in a convenience store parking lot. He made up a story about them having a shotgun and he feared for his life but police never found any proof any of them had a weapon. That cunt was sent away for life.
 
The "stand your ground" law is so fucked up. It allowed what's his face to get away with literally following and murdering a 17 year old boy back a little while... and apparently now you can murder people over parking spaces, too.

Anyway FUBAR, generalizations are never very nice. We're not all fucked up. Just some of us, and our political situation is horrendous. I personally don't own any guns and all of this shit is traumatizing. Honestly, American kids are the most traumatized... mass shooting drills at school, a new school shooting like monthly or more often. Do they all deserve it too? Are they cunts? Your statement is like saying "there are some Muslim terrorists, therefore all Muslims are terrorists".
 
No, you're correct that generalisations aren't very nice. But do you know why a generalisation becomes as such? Because generally, it's true. I live in a fucked up country where the majority of idiots thought it would be a good idea to leave Europe because "well, immigration innit?". You live in a fucked up country where the NRA rules supreme and fuckin idiots really believe it's a good idea to give children guns:

https://youtu.be/hehZmsWioYM

I know which fucked up country I would rather live in...
 
Oh trust me, I know how idiotic some people are. Well, a lot of people. Yeah some people want to give kids guns. And teachers. And yep, I think it's frightening and absurd how much influence the NRA has on the government. I just didn't like you saying that we all deserve this. The people that are making this happen? Yeah, they deserve it. But most people here, as everywhere, are good, reasonable people who are horrified by some of the things going on now. But what can we do about it? Not a lot.
 
I think George Zimmerman is the lowest form of life but living here where we got direct news coverage of it and saw photos of him that Trayvon did give him a pretty bad beatdown. The reason though that case was such a travesty is that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Sanford PD told him to leave the kid alone and let them deal with the situation and he wouldn't do it.

Personally I don't own any handguns either, have no desire to conceal carry and I just try to have as little interaction as possible with people out in public places because of incidents like this.
 
I can't believe Zimmerman didn't even catch an assault charge.

The fucked thing was that we all still gave him the benefit of the doubt after his verdict. And then he goes out does all that other shit he's been doing since then and then it becomes very obvious that he maliciously murdered trayvon and is a sociopath...but it's too late to convince him for it now.
 
Xorkoth said:
Oh trust me, I know how idiotic some people are. Well, a lot of people. Yeah some people want to give kids guns. And teachers. And yep, I think it's frightening and absurd how much influence the NRA has on the government. I just didn't like you saying that we all deserve this. The people that are making this happen? Yeah, they deserve it. But most people here, as everywhere, are good, reasonable people who are horrified by some of the things going on now. But what can we do about it? Not a lot.
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No, you're correct and I was being a little harsh. I apologise and retract my statement. I just fear for the future because the ignorant are becoming the majority...

However, my (somewhat ignorant) outburst is indicative of the rest of the world's total incomprehension of the USA gun laws. Everyone can see the flaws, except for the rulers of the most powerful country on the planet. And that is scary...
 
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Toronto shooting: Gunman kills two in Greektown district
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44919771

Two people have been killed and 12 others wounded, one of them critically, by a gunman who opened fire on a busy avenue in Canada's largest city.

One of the dead was a young woman, while the person critically injured in the attack in the Greektown district of Toronto is a girl of eight or nine.

The suspect, 29, had "an exchange of gunfire" with police officers before being found dead nearby, police said.

The attack erupted on Sunday evening on Danforth Avenue.

The motive for the shooting, which reportedly targeted at least two cafes or restaurants, is unclear. Police have also not identified the suspect, only releasing his age.
Click to expand...
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
No, you're correct and I was being a little harsh. I apologise and retract my statement. I just fear for the future because the ignorant are becoming the majority...

However, my (somewhat ignorant) outburst is indicative of the rest of the world's total incomprehension of the USA gun laws. Everyone can see the flaws, except for the rulers of the most powerful country on the planet. And that is scary...
Click to expand...

It's cool man, and yeah, I fear for the future as well. Whenever people say the US's gun laws are fine, I like to point out at the entire rest of the world thinks we're crazy. And in general when everyone else thinks you have a problem and it's just you that doesn't... it means you have a problem.
 
i assume some people will use the canada shooting as evidence that shootings don't only happen in america?

number of firearms-related deaths in canada*: 2.05 per 100k, 25.33 per 100
number of firearms-related deaths in the u.s.: 11.96 per 100k, 89 per 100

the first figure is deaths per 100k of population. the second is number of guns per 100 inhabitants. so the u.s. has ~3.5 times more guns and ~6 times more gun deaths.

sources: Canada — Gun Facts, Figures and the Law; United States — Gun Facts, Figures and the Law

the canada story is notable only because these types of shootings happen less frequently there.

alasdair
 
^Quite.

We in the UK are experiencing an unprecedented level of knife crime. Young, predominantly black male gang members are cutting each other down on an almost daily basis. Our government really hasn't got a clue how to tackle the problem. The sale of certain knives have been banned, the sale of kitchen knives that are available in every high street shop are restricted, requiring ID if the purchaser looks under 25 and the stop and search powers of the police have been increased.

What we don't have is a powerful lobby of rich idiots spouting filth such as "knives don't kill people, people kill people", or proposing that the only way to fight knife crime is to arm more people with knives...

Also, we don't have toddlers accidentally killing their parents with knives.
 
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invegauser said:
i'm a white, american, male... i'm the most hated person on the face of the planet!
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No mate, you're not. Secretly we're just fuckin jealous of you. The majority of US states have legalised cannabis for medical and/or recreational purposes now. Do you realise how far behind you we are in this respect? Who would have thought it from the country responsible for the worldwide 'war on drugs'? I realise that on a federal level it's still illegal, but the fact that so many of your states are sticking their fingers up at central government is a breath of fresh air! We couldn't imagine anything like that here as we're such a small country and all ruled by the same rod of iron.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
No mate, you're not. Secretly we're just fuckin jealous of you. The majority of US states have legalised cannabis for medical and/or recreational purposes now. Do you realise how far behind you we are in this respect? Who would have thought it from the country responsible for the worldwide 'war on drugs'? I realise that on a federal level it's still illegal, but the fact that so many of your states are sticking their fingers up at central government is a breath of fresh air! We couldn't imagine anything like that here as we're such a small country and all ruled by the same rod of iron.
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It's a weird situation isn't it? Especially since we pressured a lot of the world to fight their own wars on drugs only to wind up where we are now.
 
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