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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The 2018 Trump Presidency thread

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Nah I doubt it. The cold war sucked and the moves for better relations with Russia that began long before Trump are pretty great. America would be better off being frenemy allies with Russia, its highly likely its just to get leverage and influence from othe countries and not for anything else but cant see why not.

I like Putin. No idea why, just do
 
alasdairm said:
well trump seems to have finally done some uniting! democrats and republicans, cnn, fox and many other media companies.
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The mainstream media is still establishment media. Finding a pundit on Fox that agrees and then claiming that as some consensus is not even close to a reflection of the true sentiments of the actual people.
Trump united the deep state/cabal which includes politicians (and their media lackeys) on both sides. Why do you think it was McCain (R) that handed the fake dossier to Buzzfeed?
Trump was a Democrat his entire life, this is hardly a Ds vs Rs thing.

This is the President of the United States doing what every POTUS before him has done (since Franklin Roosevelt in 1943 with Stalin) which is meet with the head of the Kremlin.
Every president since Eisenhower (a Republican btw) has met with the leader of the Kremlin for one existential purpose - to avoid war between the two nuclear superpowers.
Today in the eyes of many experts relations between the USA and Russia are more dangerous than they have ever been, including during the Cuban missile crisis.
What every American should want regardless of who they voted for is for their President (like every president) to sit with the head of a nuclear superpower and walk back the conflicts which could lead to war - Syria, Ukraine, Baltic nations, from cyberattacks.
Every president has been encouraged to do that and applauded by both parties. NOT TRUMP.
Look what they did to him today: They held a kangaroo court and found him guilty. Then the former head of the CIA (who himself should be put under oath and asked about his role inventing Russiagate) called the President of the United States treasonous. What the fuck is going on?
I know it sucks that Trump is president, but that doesn't change the laws of physics or how we conduct international affairs.
Do you prefer trying to impeach Trump vs trying to avert war with nuclear Russia?
Think about it.
And why is Russia uniquely considered an unacceptable partner for conversation?
At the time same time we are happy to have close intimate relations with eg Saudi Arabia, China - both far more reprehensible governments (and China has done more cyberhacking)

Russia and USA were great allies.
Both Christian countries, large states, frontier countries.
Russia defeated Nazi Germany in Europe, USA beat Japan in the Pacific.
After that, things went bad. There's differing opinions on who's to blame for that.
But WHY since the end of the Soviet Union? There's no communism.
Why do these people dislike Putin, the president of post-communist Russia, more than they seemed to have ever dislike the communist leaders?
I don't think people realize how basically all of their justifications for Russia being bad and Putin being evil are drenched in hypocrisy.

cabal said:
Russia interfered in the 2016 election. Our nation?s top intelligence agencies all agree on that point...
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Who cares what random guy had to say if he's completely wrong? The "top intelligence agencies" haven't even analyzed the FBI servers that were supposedly hacked by the Russians. A while ago Clinton publicly said that "all 17 intelligence agencies" agree (with the Crowdstrike report paid for by the DNC). Then it was actually altered to "4 intelligence agencies" and upon further investigation it was a select group of people from those 4 intelligence agencies. There's no consensus and it's embarrassing.

Here we finally have Trump meeting with Putin and addressing reporters.
The super non-hypocritical investigation began in July 2016. 2 years later so why don't journalists just present the evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russian government, or how about at the very least that the Russian government/Putin ordered or organized some US election interference. Oh, wait 2 years later and it's still a conspiracy theory?

alasdairm said:
condemn russia's actions
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So President Trump, leader of the biggest nuclear superpower should provoke President Putin, leader of the second biggest nuclear superpower publicly on the world stage over what actions? Be very very specific here (and make sure you have a ton of evidence lol) because you are suggesting escalation of tensions. Forget that it's Donald Trump for a minute and think of the much larger implications.

(and bringing up Charlottesville as an attack on Trump, seriously still? Your subjective interpretation of a golden chance can be interpreted as left-wing pressure and this issue has been repetedly handled: https://youtu.be/hoXThCb8EZA So people have to say things that they've already said for decades when you want them to. Does that make him racist, treasonous or other?)

Donald Trump Twitter said:
As I said today and many times before, "I have GREAT confidence in MY intelligence people." However, I also recognize that in order to build a brighter future, we cannot exclusively focus on the past - as the world?s two largest nuclear powers, we must get along! #HELSINKI2018
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Notice he said "MY intelligence people". Not the deep-state cronies that are spying on him, fabricating accusations and trying to bring him down. Those are the same ones who are trying to start beef with Russia. Trump's people (like the ones who tipped him off about Obama's wiretapping) are probably telling him that Putin is cool and to not act like a baby on the world stage. And ironically it's the Left who criticize Trump for acting like a baby, now demanding that he do so.

Donald Trump 2018 Helsinki said:
I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics
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alasdairm said:
nice try at spinning his shambolic, disgraceful behavior yesterday but even trump disagrees with you... oh, he mispoke: 24 hours later, Trump claims he misspoke in Helsinki, meant to say Russia did have reason to meddle in election

utter fail.

alasdair
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Let's say you got your wish and Trump did call out Russia's meddling at the meeting.
And then Putin called out the USA for meddling in their elections (which we also know undoubtedly happened).
And then they fight and walk away and we can shit on Trump some more for being a failure diplomat but unfortunately we might go to nuclear war.

The only way to do it is say (on the world stage because there are other serious violators like China, which Trump addressed in his correction) "we the USA will stop meddling in others' elections. If anyone does it to us from now on there will be serious consequences".

NOT - "Hey Putin, why are you doing what others are doing and what we are also doing? Stop what you are doing which is what we are doing too"
It's nonsense to suggest doing this.

Oh, and Trump even got Putin to say he would let Russigate investigators go to Russia and go after those 12 Russians that did commit some cybercrime, which was discovered by the Mueller probe, which had nothing to do with the Trump campaign. So that's a win, yes? Improving international relations and helping Mueller with his cute little Carmen Sandiego witch hunt?

And I'll add that the Russian hacking they found happened when Obama was president. Let's blast Obama for not calling that out during his meetings. Why did Obama whisper to Putin's associate to tell Vlad that he'd have more "flexibility" after the election?
 
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trump now agrees with the (hated) us intelligence community and senior republicans like mitch mcconnell that russia definitely interfered in the u.s. election: Trump Reverses Course, Says Russia Meddled in 2016 Election

that's a sudden and staggering turnaround from the day before when he accepted putin's denial.

honestly, this whole episode makes him look disoriented, ill-prepared, shambolic and weak. putin must be laughing his ass off.

alasdair
 
"Why are some, maybe a lot of, people so worked up about Trump meeting Putin. I mean, he (and Obama and Bush etc. etc.) all met and loved up on the Saudi dictators, and there was nary a peep from the baying mob. So why the issue with Putin? Here's the answer, as distilled from just below the surface of the mind of the average twitter perp.

Cos Putin stole our elections, that's WHY! STOLE THEM he did I tells ya! Took them away from us he did! More to the point, took HILLARY away from us, and gave us a big orange-faced, sexist, racist dufus as a replacement! The very LAST thing any decent person would want as a leader!

Leaders are meant to be BETTER, in ALL respects, than the average person. That's why we entrust them with the power to make the important decisions for us, FFS! Does ANYONE think the average person would entrust that kind of power and responsibility to what appears to be their moral and intellectual INFERIOR!?!? It's a complete SUBVERSION of the unspoken rules I tells ya!

Look, it's pretty simple: as long as the president looks, talks,walks and acts (and ideally dances) much better than the average person, it doesn't matter a DAMN what he does at home or abroad. He could wage wars and kill millions of innocent people in foreign lands and engage in all kinds of crookery at home and we'd hardly bat and eyelid. BUT he has to LOOK THE PART WHEN HE'S DOING IT FFS! That's all we care about!

So the point, in case you missed it, is that it's not so much about Putin, it's about Trump. Whatever we can use to bash Trump, we'll use it. In this case, that requires us to bash Putin too."
 
"this case, that requires us to bash Putin too."
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do the quotation marks indicate that that rant was spoken or written by someone else?
If so, perhaps you could attribute them to a source.

You're evading the discussion, which is predictable. You are attempting to defend the indefensible.

Amazing how many dictators you'll advocate for, if they appeal to your sense of tribalism.

I think trump has showed his hand - he's fundamentally compromised. Continuing to deny this doesn't do much for your credibility mate :\
 
JGrimez said:
Look, it's pretty simple: as long as the president looks, talks,walks and acts (and ideally dances) much better than the average person, it doesn't matter a DAMN what he does at home or abroad. He could wage wars and kill millions of innocent people in foreign lands and engage in all kinds of crookery at home and we'd hardly bat and eyelid. BUT he has to LOOK THE PART WHEN HE'S DOING IT FFS! That's all we care about!
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this is an odd fabrication. i don't see anybody here saying that...

alasdair
 
"mispoke" Lol, from a massive list of ridiculous comments/bullshit, this has be the most ridiculous. Probably won't matter because his fanboys will forget about it soon enough but oh my, what a clown.
 
Gotta love the "I misspoke" excuse. I still fondly remember when Hillary misspoke about her helicopter landing under sniper fire in Bosnia.
 
quiet roar said:
"mispoke" Lol, from a massive list of ridiculous comments/bullshit, this has be the most ridiculous. Probably won't matter because his fanboys will forget about it soon enough but oh my, what a clown.
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It's pretty disturbing that people excuse anything he says or does. I mean, that's all it takes for trump apologists to completely throw democracy under the bus.

When i look at the sacrifices my grandparents and their generation made to fight fascism, it's minblowing to see people embrace this idiot president. Especially the trump apologists who also praise putin.

Democracy is a fragile thing, and it seems really nihilistic to piss it all away for a president who panders to people's base prejudices or sense of tribalism.
 
alasdairm said:
this is an odd fabrication. i don't see anybody here saying that...

alasdair
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It's what people don't say when it's other 'favorable' leaders doing the same or worse that displays one's true intention or understanding.

The previous president basically sold Putin/buddies 20% of US uranium and turned a blind eye when they knew Russians were illegally exporting it.

There were no screeches, no outrageously loud criticism via the media, no claims of being a puppet or traitor or treasonous or sleeping together in Putin's bed (NYTimes).

I'm hearing all of that right now against Trump, and that is after a 2-year investigation yet they don't even have a smoking gun.

Let's forget all out of our biases for a second (including mine). Doesn't that seem a little bit crazy or at least unfair??
 
In response to that whataboutism, I reckon selling out democracy is worse than selling 20% of america's uranium.
 
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