"The Problem With Calling Trump a Racist"- Rolling Stone

[Droppersneck]

I actually watched the live feed of the Charlottesville rally. In the morning it was just normal people that wanted the statue to stay, then later the Nazis/antifa showed up and it got ugly. Around that time I actually stood around a statue in my local area on the square with some other folks to protect it. The local college had a number of people tweeting about defacing it. Luckily no one showed up, but the people that were there were just normal people. Only a few rednecks even! Trumps remarks about Charlottesville were dead on. If yt hasn’t taken down the feeds you can see what happened yourself. DuckDuckGo bakedalaska+ Charlottesville

 

[cduggles]

It will happen in phases beginning in May (JPost)

So Trump didn't move it. And that move date keeps sliding.

WHEN Trump accomplishes something, and you feel the need to gloat, do it then.

Like when Mexico paid for the big beautiful border wall and it was built.

Ivanka married Kushner in 2009 if that's what you're asking.
Or do you mean Jew is a slur? I don't think it is maybe depending on the tone but not the word itself.
Heard plenty of Jewish persons refer to themselves as Jews.

Her father married her off is a bit dated of a phrase. Maybe she chose her husband? Maybe they even love each other?

No, I don't think that the word Jew is a slur in most cases. Exceptions certainly exist, including when it's used an an adjective or a verb.

I actually watched the live feed of the Charlottesville rally. In the morning it was just normal people that wanted the statue to stay, then later the Nazis/antifa showed up and it got ugly. Around that time I actually stood around a statue in my local area on the square with some other folks to protect it. The local college had a number of people tweeting about defacing it. Luckily no one showed up, but the people that were there were just normal people. Only a few rednecks even! Trumps remarks about Charlottesville were dead on. If yt hasn?t taken down the feeds you can see what happened yourself. DuckDuckGo bakedalaska+ Charlottesville

Perhaps they were tired from the tiki torch march? Or you're wrong (more likely).

 

[JGrimez]

Or he's right and Trump's comments were factual - as opposed to an endorsement of Nazis, as some are ridiculously clinging to in order to label him a racist..

And the move date was pulled back earlier instead of the previously stated 2019. Also I wasn't gloating about the embassy move, I couldn't give a shit about that. It was just to show that Trump isn't antisemitic.

 

[Droppersneck]

Nope I’m right. My state passed legislation to make it take an act of god to take a statue down, just recently. We respect our history here, though I’m open to taking down statues erected under dubious circumstances. The only ones claiming there were Only Nazis there were highly suspect heavily editorialized news organizations that have also been responsible for all of the Russia propaganda/ conspiracy theory articles. Moral of the story is don’t beleive everything you read.

Seriously don’t take my word for it find a feed from that day and watch it with your own two eyes!

 

[alasdairm]

We respect our history here, though I’m open to taking down statues erected under dubious circumstances.

"i don't have a problem with my exceptions to the rules. i only have a problem with your exceptions to the rules"



alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

"i don't have a problem with my exceptions to the rules. i only have a problem with your exceptions to the rules"



alasdair

There’s just no winning with you

 

[cduggles]

And the move date was pulled back earlier instead of the previously stated 2019. Also I wasn't gloating about the embassy move, I couldn't give a shit about that. It was just to show that Trump isn't antisemitic.

The move to the US embassy is expected to take place in about nine years.

The move to an annex that will be built next to the working space they are borrowing is expected to take place at the end of 2019.

The current move of some staff (and it's April) is to some space in the compound that currently houses the consular operations of the Consulate General of Jerusalem.

https://www.jta.org/2018/03/27/news...ve-construction-permits-u-s-embassy-jerusalem

Again, no one is doing anything but borrowing some space.

Israel is obviously a strong US ally. It's a historical fact.

It's just when you Trump people start banging on about "de-nuking" and how great the trade wars are going and how beautiful the wall is that it seems premature.

 

[alasdairm]

There’s just no winning with you

only if you think it's about 'winning'...

alasdair

 

[cduggles]

Droppersneck and JGrimez, you have no idea what those people were there for (they could have been Antifa or media or rubberneckers. And your definition of "normal people" might be different from mine. )

So let's look at the tales of two merry lads who just got caught up in all the excitement, shall we?

1) Peter Cvjetanovic, probably one of the more famous people from the group.

Cvjetanovic is an undergraduate at the university [of NV-Reno] studying history and political science. According to ThisisReno.com, His Facebook profile shows him to be a member of the International Group of National Conservatives (Alt-Right), Croation World Network CROWN and The Preservation of Sagas, Eddas, And Nordic History and added, The UNR College Republicans published a photograph with U.S. Senator Dean Heller that allegedly also shows Cvjetanovic.

The college student told the television station in an interview that he had attended the rally but denied he's the angry racist people think he is because of the photo. A Twitter profile page in his name reads "Changing the world for the better. Here to clear my name. White Nationalist" and bears a cover photo that reads, "Trump's America". The tweets are protected.

"I came to this march for the message that white European culture has a right to be here just like every other culture,Cvjetanovic told the television station. It is not perfect; there are flaws to it, of course. However I do believe that the replacement of the statue will be the slow replacement of white heritage within the United States and the people who fought and defended and built their homeland. Robert E, Lee is a great example of that. He wasn't a perfect man, but I want to honor and respect what he stood for during his time.

Here's picture of this unwitting victim:

He's also quoted as saying that he "cares for all people."

2) Alex Michael Ramos was arrested for being involved in the brutal beating of Deandre Harris. Of all the men arrested so far, Ramos was quite insistent that he is unaffiliated with any specific white supremacist group.

"I was there because, pretty much, I'm a conservative. ... There were some non-racist members who were going to a free speech rally," he said.

Alex Michael Ramos said that he hit Harris once and that others beat him with sticks and shields. He called the incident "a defensive attack."

Here's a picture of that "defensive attack":

In the stirring words of the Klan imperial wizard, Richard Preston, who was at the rally but said the Klan were there as 'patriots':

"We didn't go as the Klan. We didn't go there to create havoc and fight. We went there to protect a monument."

Yes I have sources.

 

[JGrimez]

Nice one, now write up a CV on everyone who was at the rally to see if there were any good people there.
I watched a livestream of someone who attended and who I know for a fact isn't a Nazi.
End of story.

Also Antifa have been classed as a domestic terror group. They have instigated many more incidents of political violence recently.

And Hillary Clinton's mentor was a member of the KKK.
Imagine if one of Trump's associates had a Klan affiliation.

 

[cduggles]

^Neither of the people above were affiliated white supremacists like the guy who drove the car into the crowd, with 19 casualties.

Antifa did ...?

The other three men arrested so far for beating Deandre Harris were also affiliated white supremacists.

And, as the imperial wizard stated above, the Klan was just there to save a monument. Just concerned citizens.

Trump had this coffee guy named Steve Bannon for awhile who has white supremacist and alt-right ties. Sebastian Gorka and Stephen Miller are basically just continuity. Oh wait Gorka also got pushed out.

But I mean if I was a white guy who just happened to be in Charlottesville, I might even be wearing khakis and have an interesting haircut. I can totally see how I wouldn't flee at the sight of openly armed Neonazis (technically), white supremacists, and idiot "South will rise again types". What could go wrong?

What was your friend there for? The free speech or the hotties? Something else?

We had a Pope who was in the Hitler Youth.

Can you imagine if Trump had been in the Hitler Youth?

Democrats would be all over it.

 

[JGrimez]

Not my friend, a youtube commentator. Right-wing but that doesn't = Nazi.
I feel this whole saga was twisted as a way to somehow prove that Trump is racist. But in order to do so you have to prove that every single person there was a Nazi.
And honestly that's going to be impossible.

Hopefully we can all agree that Nazis and ramming people with cars is bad.

 

[alasdairm]

Imagine if one of Trump's associates had a Klan affiliation.

we don't have to imagine.

richard spencer - an openly white nationalist - mentored stephen miller.

sebastian gorka was trump's deputy assistant for a time. he was awarded a medal by vitezi rend, a nazi organization.

and steven bannon - his white nationalist credentials are well known.

the company one keeps...

alasdair

 

[cduggles]

I feel this whole saga was twisted as a way to somehow prove that Trump is racist.

Oddly, a lot of minorities and others didn't feel it needed twisting to prove (again) that Trump is a racist. A lot. Particularly blacks and Jews.

I didn't see Jared Kushner or Ivanka, who are both Jewish, out there defending him, and one thing about Trump is that he always feels that people should go out and defend him. (I'm guessing Gary Cohn wasn't available.)

But in order to do so you have to prove that every single person there was a Nazi.
And honestly that's going to be impossible.

Nazis are v old people, generally in Argentina.

Personally, I feel white supremacists and alt-right are inclusive terms. But people use the term as shorthand, so I understand. Pet peeve.

And I don't have to prove anything. I'm hardly in any minority in finding Trump's third? set of comments offensive.

I simply supplied two anecdotes about high profile guys who claimed to be there as...

1) a conservative going to a free speech rally who brutally beat Deandre Harris and

2) someone who cares for all kinds of people who is in alt-right and love-white groups who appeared to be fervent in loving certain people just a little more (white ones) with tiki torch in hand.

Hopefully we can all agree that Nazis and ramming people with cars is bad.

Hopefully yes. Unfortunately, probably not.

 

[JGrimez]

the company one keeps...

Wasn't aware of all that. (source for Spencer mentoring Miller plz?)
Would you admit that Hillary Clinton is a racist also if she was mentored by ex-KKK?
Gorka - gone
Bannon - gone.
I will note that receiving something from an allegedly racist organization does not automatically make that person racist and more evidence or links need to be found before confidently making that claim. Example: Hillary Clinton received tens of million of dollars from Saudi who were stoning rape victims and beheading gay people. Was Hillary anti-rape victim/anti-gay?
It's good to fire staff that are proven racists. Sometimes firing staff is the right thing to do.
Also if a WH staff member is part of corruption or leaking info, they should be fired. Look how many suspicious folk Trump has had to let go recently.
Cleaning house.

Oddly, a lot of minorities and others didn't feel it needed twisting to prove (again) that Trump is a racist. A lot. Particularly blacks and Jews.

The same blacks and jews that Trump went to court for to allow his club to be the only one that accepted them at the time? Trump was never considered a racist until recently. I haven't seen him say anything racist or promote any racist legislation. Black unemployment lowest levels ever (2 million+ jobs added). Trump doing great things to elevate minority communities and I've seen so many minorities that love the Donald.

I didn't see Jared Kushner or Ivanka, who are both Jewish, out there defending him

There was no need, Trump did nothing wrong. He needed to make a comment and then move on from the incident. The rally was an absolutely disgusting display on both sides. And there were also good people there on both sides. If you refuse to acknowledge this, and cannot prove that every single person in one group was a white supremacist - then you are being bigoted against good, right-wing or conservative people. Please no bigotry. Good people are good people. Bad people are bad people. Trump did not say anything racist, please stop misrepresenting the truth in order to slander people.

 

[cduggles]

What did the "other side" do at the Charlottesville rally?
How many casualties?

If you really Trump didn't say anything racist about Charlottesville, then why do all those minorities think he did? Maybe they know something you don't about racism.

 

[JGrimez]

Plenty of minorities think that he didn't. I viewed it and didn't see anything. It's easy to whip people up into a frenzy with biased reporting, especially anti-Trumpers. We need to stick to the facts if possible and be as fair as possible.

The lone casualty was tragic and was seemingly caused by a white supremacist. Still we cannot ignore ANTIFA's attacks against right-wing protesters (ANTIFA instigated attacks earlier in the day to shut down the first Right march where some of the good people were involved). I hope we can move on from that incident without using it to falsely paint Trump as a racist. We sholdn't divide each other by Left/Right. There are good people and bad people.

 

[cduggles]

I'm not sure you know what a casualty is.

I didn't need a reporter to tell me what to think about Trump's statement. I figured out my opinion all on my own.

 

[spacejunk]

Plenty of minorities think that he didn't. I viewed it and didn't see anything. It's easy to whip people up into a frenzy with biased reporting, especially anti-Trumpers. We need to stick to the facts if possible and be as fair as possible.

The lone casualty was tragic and was seemingly caused by a white supremacist. Still we cannot ignore ANTIFA's attacks against right-wing protesters (ANTIFA instigated attacks earlier in the day to shut down the first Right march where some of the good people were involved).I hope we can move on from that incident without using it to falsely paint Trump as a racist. We sholdn't divide each other by Left/Right. There are good people and bad people.

Highlighted two laughably contradictory sentences.

The sentence sandwiched between them, incidentally, is another ludricrous denial of trump's racism.
We get it - you're a true believer - but i think thou dost protest too much. If trump wasn't a classic example of racist politician, i don't think you'd be denying it constantly.

As for charlottesville, it was an appalling spectacle of hate and violence, and (despite the efforts of the right wing press and GOP establishment) showed who the real "bad people" are.

The only good thing to come out of it was demonstrating the failure of "alt reich" neo-fascist mobs of would-be terrorists from mobilising in the real world.
It showed them for the people they really are - vicious low lives who should be shunned and shut down.

The result? An even more successful campaign to have their blogs and forums taken off the clearweb (and into the dark web where they belong; with the jihadi propagandists and child molesters), and far greater scrutiny of their efforts to stage rallies and fund their activities.

I know lots of trump people sympathise with these vile fascists, but i think most of us see them for what they are - violent ideologues.
They are entitled to the same sort of reverence we have for islamic terrorists; they are just deranged racists who incite hate, violence and murder.


I'm glad they've mostly all crawled back under whatever rocks they crawled out from - civil society has no place for such people.
Charlottesville was the last alt-right/neo-fascist/white supremacist rally with anything resembling a respectable turn out.

I'm very sorry about the poor girl that was martyred in the process, but her death was not in vain; she showed everyone that neo-nazis are just terrorists, who need to be treated as such.

 

[JGrimez]

Highlighted two laughably contradictory sentences.

Hang on, why didn't you bold this part too?:

The lone casualty was tragic and was seemingly caused by a white supremacist. Still we cannot ignore ANTIFA's attacks against right-wing protesters (ANTIFA instigated attacks earlier in the day to shut down the first Right march where some of the good people were involved).I hope we can move on from that incident without using it to falsely paint Trump as a racist. We sholdn't divide each other by Left/Right

I called out the bad people on both sides. The assholes are always going to be divisive so my message of unity is for the good people that want to improve the situation.

I know lots of trump people sympathise with these vile fascists

Some, and their president hasn't introduced any fascist legislation so I guess poor them.
Some of the Left sympathise with Antifa terrorism.
Terrorists from both extremes of the political spectrum are dangerous, hateful and ignorant aholes.

Charlottesville was the last alt-right/neo-fascist/white supremacist rally with anything resembling a respectable turn out.

That's excellent. So why are we still talking about it? We've sent the tiny group of NeoNazis off to their rooms, are we going to move on now and get stuff done or sit on the streets in anticipation for when the NeoNazis all rise from the sewers.

I'm very sorry about the poor girl that was martyred in the process, but her death was not in vain; she showed everyone that neo-nazis are just terrorists, who need to be treated as such.

Or how about we denounce ALL political terrorism. Everyone should be able to speak and march freely without getting mowed down.