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Pentagon to Allow Transgender Individuals to Enlist Despite Trump Objections

swilow said:
^I don't think everyone hates transsexuals. There are a number posting in this thread who do not.

I'm truly sorry you feel that way.
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its enough people, enough of the time to feel like everyone. genuinely supportive people are memorable and hard to find

JahSEEuS said:
It's either elective surgery or a mental disorder. Your choice.

If it's a mental disorder I can see why some people would argue that transgender military personal can be a detriment to the purpose of our armed services.

If it's elective surgery, I can see why people would get upset about paying for it out of their tax dollars.

I personally don't care one way or the other and I certainly don't hate transsexuals or consider them "fair game" for any "nonsense" or "inspection".

If you can perform your duties without the use of HRT or other medications (the likes of which would disqualify any non-trans individual) by all means go for it.
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i literally laughed out loud when i read this
 
Unfortunately that's what it boils down to.

Was it as funny as your general assessment that everybody hates trans-folk?
 
Welcome back oestrogenprincessa!

Great to see you here! :)

I hope you saw my little message.

And it's not a mental disorder...

Not for people who look at references like the ICD and DSM as a guide for mental health

The DSM only has one code for gender dysphoria, not all transgender individuals are diagnosed with it. It usually used because you need a diagnosis for a procedure.

And it isn't elective surgery...
Many insurance companies and Medicaid and possibly Medicare... don't quote me on Medicare but I think so... are also covering gender reassignment surgery

I never thought I'd look at the military as so progressive!
 
oestrogenprinsessa said:
...everyone hates transsexuals we're fair game for this kind of nonsense and inspection of our lives and bodies as if they exist merely for voyeuristic consumption by "normal" society.
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My son's best friend growing up is trans. I changed the diapers when she was in a male body and worked like hell to understand her reality and my evolving range of reactions to it when she transitioned. There is no hate in my heart, but if I am to be completely honest, there remain lots of questions; and in that she and I share something. Questioning gender and the body you were born into is complex but it is as compelling for those who love you as it is for you. Non-judgmental questioning, whether it is questioning your birthbody, the nature of gender or another's reality, should never be confused with hatred. Hatred is refusing to question, in a way. One thing I do know is that there is a lot of quieter love and acceptance out there for all of us--fear and hatred just have louder voices and make better news stories. Humanity is crying out for alliance and wholeness while we splinter into narrower and narrower factions. This is a transitional time in history on so many fronts. We need the courage to speak our own truths, the compassion for each other to listen even when it is difficult and, perhaps most fragile of all, the ability to keep hope alive in ourselves and others.
 
thats fair it is still enough people enough of the time. consider that my first interaction with a staff member in this thread was bluephlame comparing transsexualism to pedophilia. I really appreciate your words, I do. its still enough people that the reality of others view me and my sisters is thrown in our faces.

cduggles said:
Welcome back oestrogenprincessa!

Great to see you here! :)

I hope you saw my little message.

And it's not a mental disorder...

Not for people who look at references like the ICD and DSM as a guide for mental health

The DSM only has one code for gender dysphoria, not all transgender individuals are diagnosed with it. It usually used because you need a diagnosis for a procedure.

And it isn't elective surgery...
Many insurance companies and Medicaid and possibly Medicare... don't quote me on Medicare but I think so... are also covering gender reassignment surgery

I never thought I'd look at the military as so progressive!
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the service is sometimes the only support for a womans medical transition needs. not in my case but it certainly is for several women i know.
 
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cduggles said:
And it's not a mental disorder...

Not for people who look at references like the ICD and DSM as a guide for mental health

The DSM only has one code for gender dysphoria, not all transgender individuals are diagnosed with it. It usually used because you need a diagnosis for a procedure.

And it isn't elective surgery...
Many insurance companies and Medicaid and possibly Medicare... don't quote me on Medicare but I think so... are also covering gender reassignment surgery

I never thought I'd look at the military as so progressive!
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Many insurance companies require that you have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria before covering any gender reassignment surgeries.

The DSM V lists gender dysphoria as a mental disorder. Am I wrong there?

Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder. Gender dysphoria is. How can you say that someone that is trans is not experiencing a conflict between their physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify.

That is the only reason I can see for someone to want to have one of these surgeries.

It isn't elective if you are diagnosed as such. So, it is either a mental condition or an elective surgery.
 
No need to attack me. I'm just stating the facts. Like I said before I don't have a problem with anyone having these surgeries/treatments. I'd personally prefer if it's not my money being used for it. I'd also like to mention that I don't support Trump or his vacations (not sure what that has to do with this but apparently it does...).

I don't have a problem with trans-individuals in the military. I do have a problem if they aren't capable of passing the same physical and psychological watermarks as their peers.

If you could present some actual facts for me being a four year old or my statements being laughable, well, I'd appreciate that.
 
Can you expand on that?

While we are at it, and on the topic of reading comprehension, why don't you go back and show me where Blue_Phlame said anything about paedophiles or even attempted to compare them to transgender individuals?
 
I have unapproved the last couple of posts. Please let us just discuss this reasonably and without insulting or threatening or anything like that. It is an emotional topic for some but I think we could have a topic that is informative as well as interesting if we try. :)
 
EDIT: BP did mention Paedofiles on the second page, but I don't see it as a comparison to transgender individuals, in fact I see it as him separating the two groups.
 
swilow said:
I have unapproved the last couple of posts. Please let us just discuss this reasonably and without insulting or threatening or anything like that. It is an emotional topic for some but I think we could have a topic that is informative as well as interesting if we try. :)
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this thread is not informative in the slightest.


I am not discussing mental health diagnoses with people who do not have clinical experience in those fields, treating transsexual patients :)
 
Why don't you help inform us then?

That is what this is for. I am open to hearing your side of the story. I am simply stating my understanding of the situation. If I am wrong, which I often am, I am more than willing to change my stance.
 
alasdairm said:
indeed. we touched on this earlier in the thread when a post seemed to imply that this was a common occurrence and many people were taking advantage of this to get taxpayer-funded surgery when that's not the case.

if people have an issue with their tax dollars being wasted, i assume they have a significant problem with trumps vacations, vacation security, etc.?

alasdair
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The news coverage was brief when Trump banned transgenders enlisting saying they couldnt afford the treatments required.

This was the reason that a lot of ppl think transgenders enlist to get free surgery.

This is the problem of a misinformed person on office. People listen despite him being a known idiot. Also known money waster.
 
right. my issue is that some opponents are making this about cost when it's not about cost and they don't care about profligate spending otherwise...

alasdair
 
JahSEEuS said:
The DSM V lists gender dysphoria as a mental disorder. Am I wrong there?
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homosexuality used to be a mental disoder listed in the DSM too. guess what? times change. whats needed is more data, but human experimentation isnt exactly ethical... but i doubt gender dysphoria will still be listed when the next vewsion of the DSM comes out.

JahSEEuS said:
So, it is either a mental condition or an elective surgery.
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false dichotomy. why must it only be one or the other? the world is nothing but shades of gray, stuffing something into one of your personal, easy-to-understand pidgeonholes doesnt actually make it so. intersex and transseual individuals have been around for as long as humans have. i mean, if you really wanted to be a dick, you could classify anything outside "normal", like a high iq or any of the variants of synesthesia as "mental disorders" (just for starters), but calling them such comes with the implication that they're bad things to have, when both a high iq and synesthesia allow people to do extraordinary things. there's no reason to fear people because they're different; they're still people.
 
Because, as it stands right now, that is what it is. It's either an unnecessary elective surgery/treatment or it's a treatment/surgery for a documented, medically recognized disorder.

I'm not saying that being diagnosed with gender dysphoria is a bad thing, just that it's a thing.

I don't know where you are coming up with this fear thing. I don't fear transgender people.
 
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