Pentagon to Allow Transgender Individuals to Enlist Despite Trump Objections

[CFC]

>>A left wing tolerant kinda person

This is a myth. I mean I grew up thinking the left was tolerant and understanding. They aren't. Lefties (if I can generalize and I will) are among the most self righteous, pompous, arrogant, just downright mean people to anyone who does not think or vote like them.

Lol, don't you think you're being just a little bit black and white here mate?

 

[cduggles]

FYI: This has already gone way off track. My original two controversial statements were: Transgender people have a mental illness, and mental illness should not be normalized. And second, that public displays of sexuality are a manifestation of depravity and should be discouraged. That's my stance, attack that, and not make up stuff about hate, and implying that I disagreeing with fundamental human rights or understanding for trans people. That treacherous display is often seen spacejunk, and I resent that.

My point with this is, the arguments being used for normalizing behaviors that were once taboo, could potentially be argued for other paraphilias that are currently against the law. I would argue that there has to be a line drawn somewhere, and not inched further and further into accepting various paraphilias as acceptable and normal in society. I don't want groups like NAMBLA or the incest & necrophilia advocates to be covered under the same human rights protections as the LGBT folks are.
What is gross and abnormal to rest of society, is fine and acceptable in their eyes, much like how homosexuality and transgenders were before the 70s. However through years of public attention and normalization, these are now 'brave and heroic' individuals for stepping forth, getting tremendous coverage through the media - despite being a small population group.


I am not streatching its meaning. Trump supporters are a group, implying that they should go to the bin is derogatory. As are feminists, nazis, liberals, conservatives, racialists, and any other group you can think of. As long as hate isn't promoted on the boards, they should have their say, so that an informed discussion can happen on both sides, without resorting to fallacies, deception, and other malicious tricks.

This small population got slammed by the HIV/AIDS epidemic and fought it effectively. It was activism at its finest. Drugs to treat HIV were fast tracked and what is now referred to as the LGBT community fought for health care services. Tom Hanks even made a movie.

The Ryan White Act (they had to use the name of a hemophiliac kid- an even smaller population that aligned itself with the LGBT community because no one else cared). The innocent ones.

I have been fortunate enough to work with the doctors who pioneered HIV/AIDS treatment internationally, where HIV/AIDS is a predominantly heterosexual epidemic, as an understatement. I also worked in South Africa. So I know my material.

Particularly in NY, we're not talking about a bunch of liberals. These are the people who got individuals with highly drug-resistant TB thrown in jail if they didn't comply with their meds.

As one of my colleagues would say "It's hard to keep quiet when all your patients are dying horrible deaths."

That's when a strong community emerged, when everyone was dying. You see exactly the same thing with the opioid epidemic. It's stunning to see these kinds of arguments on BL, a harm reduction site.

 

[cduggles]

>>A left wing tolerant kinda person

This is a myth. I mean I grew up thinking the left was tolerant and understanding. They aren't. Lefties (if I can generalize and I will) are among the most self righteous, pompous, arrogant, just downright mean people to anyone who does not think or vote like them.

I've have definitely met hard-core lefties who fit this description.

But right now, the far right is aligning itself openly with white supremacy and a child rapist/blatant racist/bigot and trying to claim the moral high ground at the same time. That's so much worse than being self-righteous.

It definitely feels like moderates are a dying breed. It's why the Senate is turning on the votes of a few Republicans and a united Democrat party. If Charlottesville and Roy Moore aren't enough to convince you something is very wrong, then I'm not sure what will.

I keep thinking we've hit rock bottom. I'm sad to be proven wrong.

The center is being pushed left. The right is going into dark territory.

 

[alasdairm]

i guess i would identify as a 'leftie'. i'm sorry to hear that you think i'm self righteous, pompous, arrogant and just downright mean mgs

alasdair

 

[JessFR]

I've have definitely met hard-core lefties who fit this description.

But right now, the far right is aligning itself openly with white supremacy and a child rapist/blatant racist/bigot and trying to claim the moral high ground at the same time. That's so much worse than being self-righteous.

It definitely feels like moderates are a dying breed. It's why the Senate is turning on the votes of a few Republicans and a united Democrat party. If Charlottesville and Roy Moore aren't enough to convince you something is very wrong, then I'm not sure what will.

I keep thinking we've hit rock bottom. I'm sad to be proven wrong.

The center is being pushed left. The right is going into dark territory.

I keep feeling like in every question in politics that arises now, both sides are so crazy suicidal extreme now that I just wanna give up, let society crumble cause what's the point. People just can't ever get it right.

I blame the media and especially social media. It has changed the world and done a lot to push people further and further into extremes and feel comfortable there.

I'm really at the point of giving up now. When I hear various social problems in the world or how climate change in the future will do this or that, I increasingly feel happy. Makes me think there's some cosmic justice at work at that ultimately humanity rightly deserves such consequences for its actions. We brought it on ourselves.

I'm happy to burn for your mistakes so long as you all burn with me!

 

[Droppersneck]

>>A left wing tolerant kinda person

This is a myth. I mean I grew up thinking the left was tolerant and understanding. They aren't. Lefties (if I can generalize and I will) are among the most self righteous, pompous, arrogant, just downright mean people to anyone who does not think or vote like them.

This^ So my profile on FB is a black guy, but I just post exactly as I am, right leaning. The amount of vitriol and hate I see come from the left is over the top. Lots of racism and outrage that I should get back on the DNC plantation. I don't get why people can't just differ in political opinions without getting upset. I never let politics get to me, I've got enough irl things to worry about.

 

[CFC]

Ah, I get it: we're playing the alternate universe game, where right wing folks suddenly become notoriously friendly and welcoming of people from different backgrounds and with different ideas than their own

LOL

 

[swilow]

>>A left wing tolerant kinda person

This is a myth. I mean I grew up thinking the left was tolerant and understanding. They aren't. Lefties (if I can generalize and I will) are among the most self righteous, pompous, arrogant, just downright mean people to anyone who does not think or vote like them.

Seems ironic that your own post actually exhibits many of those qualities.

Generalizations suck.

 

[JessFR]

Seems ironic that your own post actually exhibits many of those qualities.

Generalizations suck.

Something that often irks me in debates is counter argument by contradiction. One of the most common forms of it is where someone makes some perfectly legitimate complaint about Trump. The trump supporter than retorts that Obama was as bad or worse. But the person who made the complaint never even me mentioned Obama. The trump supporter is assuming that if they hate trump they must have supported Obama.

Its generally a diversion tactic. Point is that what Obama did or didn't do is irrelevant to the original complaint. Even if Obama was worse, it doesn't make the complaint about trump untrue.

This comes in many forms, and you see it all the time from every side of every issue.

I'm not sure why I'm bringing this up now when there have been better opportunities, but I guess I got sick of just ignoring it when I see it. In this case it's that pointing out that morninggloryseed is or you believe they are just as bad or hypocritical doesn't actually say anything about if the point about left wing aligned people is true or not. And if you ask me it's extremely true.

I can't say I've ever met a strong left wing aligned tolerance loving person whom I haven't seen shown extremely selective tolerance. Their tolerance is ignored as soon as they deem the subject unworthy of their tolerance.

Now, I'm not saying that I don't think that the left on the whole aren't more tolerant overall than the right. Keeping in mind how generalized this statement is and the limits of such generalization, they probably are. But that doesn't make the times they are hypocritical intolerant irrelevant or meaningless.

And it's understandable. All people are flawed, all people make mistakes where they haven't thought everything through or let their biases influence them. Myself included. I don't begrudge people for being flawed. I do begrudge them for utterly refusing to recognize those flaws when they are honestly and in a way that's not overly hostile pointed out to them.

Nobody can rightfully ask for perfection. They can however ask for someone's best effort. And frequently people fail to give that. Which I feel is as much letting themselves down as it is anyone else. If you don't do your best to be honest to your underlying values, you're only beliefs you're betraying are your own.

I'm not accusing you that by the way. I'm just taking this opportunity to say something I'd seen and noticed a fair bit of here lately. And go expand upon it.

 

[zephyr]

i guess i would identify as a 'leftie'. i'm sorry to hear that you think i'm self righteous, pompous, arrogant and just downright mean mgs

alasdair

You have your moments of being all of those things, as does myself and pretty much everyone else.

Im kinda thinking Im more right wing than you or would be if I fully got into debating and arguing politics. Im more here to learn than preach.

Taking an opinion about how a broad range of far left people behave personally is a mistake, Ali.

Ive been reading CEP off and on, I have not actually seen MGS personally attack you or anyone else. If he has hes been under the radar. Hes borne the brunt of a lot of attacks against him due to his political beliefs.


This is very bad.


Please dont join in.

 

[alasdairm]

Taking an opinion about how a broad range of far left people behave personally is a mistake, Ali.

not really. the point is that opinions about broad ranges of populations are typically too general to be worthwhile.

sucks that he's allowed to lazily call me 'downright mean' but my simply refuting that is a problem? oh well - i understand that irony, hypocisy and double standards abound.

alasdair

 

[zephyr]

I dont see where he says "Alasdairm is downright mean".

 

[zephyr]

Blue Phlame makes a hell of a lot of sense here.

 

[David Wooderson]

so fucking what? they don't deserve rights or respect or understanding?



i thought you were better than this.

Yes they deserve the same rights as anyone else but respect is usually earned, and understanding is something entirely vague.

The purpose of the post is arguing their existence in the US military.

I would not approve of (bc I F'n pay for it) a schizophrenic soldier that identifies as a giraffe a tank or machine gun, the same applies to transgenders.

Why is the first hospital to preform sex change operations no longer performing them?
Do they just have enough money and not want more?

 

[tathra]

for argument's sake, let's go along with the idea that transgenderism is a mental disorder - why do you think that would impact a person's ability to perform a soldier's duties and impact their combat readiness? its certainly not equivalent to schizophrenia, at worst its comparable to homosexuality, which has already been proven not to affect duties or combat readiness, so why do you think transgenderism would? should intersex individuals also be banned, and why?

 

[GiNa LyNnxx]

Hmmmmm I gotta ask my brother in law about this he's been in the army for a long time

 

[swilow]

for argument's sake, let's go along with the idea that transgenderism is a mental disorder - why do you think that would impact a person's ability to perform a soldier's duties and impact their combat readiness? its certainly not equivalent to schizophrenia, at worst its comparable to homosexuality, which has already been proven not to affect duties or combat readiness, so why do you think transgenderism would? should intersex individuals also be banned, and why?

Excellent questions, i look forward to some answers

 

[zephyr]

Why were they banned recently? Just because Trump said so ?

 

[cduggles]

Yes, in a disingenuous tweet.
The idea that transgenders haven't served and won't continue to serve in the military is laughable.
The idea that they will stop acknowledging that they are transgender individuals is not as far fetched.
We have had a transgender m-to-f on Seal Team Six.
Kristin Beck is running for Congress

 

[JessFR]

As I recall the seals are male only. Now that might well have changed since I last checked. But if it's still the case then way I see it you can't have it both ways. If you identify as female you can't then serve in the seals. It's playing the system.

And I swear if someone starts bitching about my binary outlook on life I'll start bitching right back. I generally consider myself a tolerant person but my tolerance caps out at two genders sexes whatevers max.