Depleting Serotonin Levels

[trainman04]

... I would not say that 500mg is a normal dose lol. That's pretty high, and some people are just sensitive to it. It can increase serotonin in the periphery (5-HTP doesn't cross the BBB and does not increase serotonin in the brain very well at all) and serotonin in the periphery can do a great job of causing nausea.

See for example chemotherapuetic mediated release of serotonin from enterochromaffin cells, these serotonergic cells in the gut can release serotonin into the periphery and stimulate nausea. So all the symptoms you mention can have entirely to do with acutely too much serotonin in the periphery.

.. No need to jump to "I too much serotonin in my brain" here.

Look, I've seen a lot of people tunnel vision on different things as the source of their issues. If its not one thing like serotonin, its another. But it never does them any good, and is very likely never the real source of their problems. I know you are absolutely convinced that serotonin is your problem, but the degree of which you are convinced of that has no bearing on how true it is.

Some people are absolutely convinced Elvis is still alive, or whatever. But they don't have any evidence for it, and I don't believe you have any actual evidence that "high serotonin" is your problem either - its simply a fixated belief that you're going to be better off without if you can learn to let go of it and go get real professional help.

I have tried like 30 + meds And the only ones that worked were
valium and zyprexa coincidence? or is it because valium reduces serotonin? and that zyprexa is an antagonist on almost all serotonin receptors?

 

[Hodor]

Look, I've seen a lot of people tunnel vision on different things as the source of their issues. If its not one thing like serotonin, its another. But it never does them any good, and is very likely never the real source of their problems. I know you are absolutely convinced that serotonin is your problem, but the degree of which you are convinced of that has no bearing on how true it is.

Some people are absolutely convinced Elvis is still alive, or whatever. But they don't have any evidence for it, and I don't believe you have any actual evidence that "high serotonin" is your problem either - its simply a fixated belief that you're going to be better off without if you can learn to let go of it and go get real professional help.

I wholeheartedly concur with this advice.

The way you come across here, I would be surprised if any doc‘s first impulse *wouldn‘t* be to script you an atypical antipsychotic. This isn’t supposed to be an insult - judging by the way you obsess over your serotonin hypothesis, you are obviously quite distressed and desperate, which can lead to borderline psychotic thinking. Anyway, as has been stated numerous times already, blocking serotonin is precisely what these drugs do, except they do it in a „smarter“ way than just blocking its production.

Still, you should entertain the possibility that it‘s not the serotonin alone. Other neurotransmitters are also heavily involved in anxiety and paranoia, which is why your doctor might suggest an antipsychotic with some dopaminergic activity.

Note, however, that the first few days on an antipsychotic often don‘t feel pleasant - virtually every antipsychotic is also an antihistamine, so you can expect some pretty heavy sedation during the first few days; in time, however, the sedation will decrease, but the anti-anxiety effects will mostly remain.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I have tried like 30 + meds And the only ones that worked were
valium and zyprexa coincidence? or is it because valium reduces serotonin? and that zyprexa is an antagonist on almost all serotonin receptors?

Valium is a good anxiolytic and zyprexa is an atypical anti-psychotic that also strongly blocks dopamine receptors, among many others effects, and can help with anxiety as well. I certainly wouldn't say that the common link between those two drugs and your preferable response has to be due to effects on serotonin.

Are you still taking either of those?

 

[Hodor]

I have tried like 30 + meds And the only ones that worked were
valium and zyprexa coincidence? or is it because valium reduces serotonin? and that zyprexa is an antagonist on almost all serotonin receptors?

Yes, Zyprexa is a potent antagonist on most serotonin receptors, as well as specific dopamine and adrenaline receptors. I am assuming you‘ve also had other antipsychotics, then? If the problem were solely serotonin-related, then Seroquel should have done the job, so this points to the problem being more complex than just abnormal serotonin levels.

As for Valium, that‘s a benzodiazepine (other members of this class include Xanax, Ativan and Klonopin). These drugs increase the sensitivity of your GABA receptors, GABA basically being a calming neurotransmitter that counteracts other, stimulating neurotransmitters. The problem with benzodiazepines is that they cause a rapid tolerance development and have a high potential for abuse and addiction, so on their own they‘re just not a viable long-term solution.

 

[trainman04]

Yes, Zyprexa is a potent antagonist on most serotonin receptors, as well as specific dopamine and adrenaline receptors. I am assuming you‘ve also had other antipsychotics, then? If the problem were solely serotonin-related, then Seroquel should have done the job, so this points to the problem being more complex than just abnormal serotonin levels.

As for Valium, that‘s a benzodiazepine (other members of this class include Xanax, Ativan and Klonopin). These drugs increase the sensitivity of your GABA receptors, GABA basically being a calming neurotransmitter that counteracts other, stimulating neurotransmitters. The problem with benzodiazepines is that they cause a rapid tolerance development and have a high potential for abuse and addiction, so on their own they‘re just not a viable long-term solution.

I tried seroquel didnt work i belive its not potent on serotonin receptors . seroquel also strongly blocks SERT.. could be why it didnt work? no idea.. but zyprexa doesent block sert.

benzos anxylotic effect by reducing serotonin - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5064914

I also tried klonopin another benzo didnt work .. but valium did work..

every med that has had an reducing effect on serotonin has worked somewhat for me.. tianeptine....

 

[Hodor]

I tried seroquel didnt work i belive its not potent on serotonin receptors . seroquel also strongly blocks SERT.. could be why it didnt work? no idea.. but zyprexa doesent block sert.

Seroquel itself doesn't inhibit monoamine reuptake. Its metabolite norquetiapine inhibits the re-uptake of noradrenaline, but its effect on serotonin re-uptake is so weak as to be clinically insignificant (note: The *lower* the Ki-value, the more active a drug is as an inhibitor).

benzos anxylotic effect by reducing serotonin - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5064914

That paper is 45 years old. Today our understanding of the pharmacological activity of benzodiazepines (and GABA receptors in general) is far more advanced. (edit: Just to clarify: Yes, a benzodiazepine will counteract the effects of serotonin, but also of a shitload of other excitatory neurotransmitters).

every med that has had an reducing effect on serotonin has worked somewhat for me.. tianeptine....

Whether the tianeptine-induced reduction in serotonin levels also happens in-vivo is still a matter of debate:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902200/
"More recent investigations have shown that acute and long-term administration of tianeptine does not elicit any marked alterations (neither increases nor decreases) in extracellular levels of 5-HT in corticolimbic structures of conscious rats (89,90). From an electrophysiological point of view, sustained administration of tianeptine did not modify the spontaneous firing rate of serotonergic neurons in the dorsal raphe, nor did it modify the activity of postsynaptic 5-HT1A receptors nor the effectiveness of the terminal 5-HT autoreceptor antagonist in increasing the efficacy of the stimulation of the 5-HT pathway, despite prolonged treatment (90). Thus, the role of 5-HT in the mechanism of antidepressant efficacy of tianeptine is doubtful."

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I tried seroquel didnt work i belive its not potent on serotonin receptors . seroquel also strongly blocks SERT.. could be why it didnt work? no idea.. but zyprexa doesent block sert.

Seroquel's blockade of 5-HT2A/5-HT2C is potent, it has high affinity for 5-HT2. It's anti adrenergic and anti-histamine effects will also act to decrease 5-HT. Seroquel also doesn't have appreciable effects for SERT.

I also tried klonopin another benzo didnt work .. but valium did work..

This is also not consistent with your high serotonin theory, as klonopin/clonazepam lowers serotonin -

"In addition, clonazepam decreases the utilization of 5-HT (serotonin) by neurons^[99][100]"

 

[trainman04]

Seroquel's blockade of 5-HT2A/5-HT2C is potent, it has high affinity for 5-HT2. It's anti adrenergic and anti-histamine effects will also act to decrease 5-HT. Seroquel also doesn't have appreciable effects for SERT.


This is also not consistent with your high serotonin theory, as klonopin/clonazepam lowers serotonin -

"In addition, clonazepam decreases the utilization of 5-HT (serotonin) by neurons^[99][100]"

klonopin didnt work at all like nothing just a headache. im guessing its weak..

 

[Hodor]

klonopin didnt work at all like nothing just a headache. im guessing its weak..

Klonopin is almost 20 times as potent as Valium per miligram. If equipotent doses were used (~0.5-1 mg of Klonopin for every 10 mg of Valium) there is no reason why Valium should work and Klonopin shouldn‘t.

 

[trainman04]

Klonopin is almost 20 times as potent as Valium per miligram. If equipotent doses were used (~0.5-1 mg of Klonopin for every 10 mg of Valium) there is no reason why Valium should work and Klonopin shouldn‘t.

well it didnt work for me.

 

[Weltmeister]

Wouldnt someone with high serotonin levels also have high blood pressure, tachycardia and vasoconstriction ? Also heart problems caused by 5HT2B overstimulation (since those receptors dont downregulate AFAIK).

 

[trainman04]

Wouldnt someone with high serotonin levels also have high blood pressure, tachycardia and vasoconstriction ? Also heart problems caused by 5HT2B overstimulation (since those receptors dont downregulate AFAIK).

I dont have none of those. just checked my BP 120/83 pretty normal.

 

[trainman04]

has anyone tried any of the methods to reduce serotonin I mentioned in the thread? Anyone else suspect they got high serotonin problems?

 

[Hodor]

has anyone tried any of the methods to reduce serotonin I mentioned in the thread? Anyone else suspect they got high serotonin problems?

Plenty of people have "tried" tryptophan depletion. Unfortunately it just causes a slew of health complications, like Pellagra.

 

[trainman04]

Plenty of people have "tried" tryptophan depletion. Unfortunately it just causes a slew of health complications, like Pellagra.

can you link me any posts or stuff that I can read about people trying Atd?

 

[Hodor]

can you link me any posts or stuff that I can read about people trying Atd?

Acute tryptophan depletion wouldn’t help in your case (if increased serotonin levels alone were the cause of your problems, which there is good reason to doubt) - as soon as you got tryptophan in you, your body would start to make new serotonin. What you‘d „need“ would be chronic tryptophan depletion, which would be extremely harmful to both your physical and your mental health.

That‘s why I put the quotation marks around the word ”tried“ - a chronic tryptophan deficiency would be the result of starvation/malnutrition or some sort of metabolic disease.

 

[trainman04]

Acute tryptophan depletion wouldn’t help in your case (if increased serotonin levels alone were the cause of your problems, which there is good reason to doubt) - as soon as you got tryptophan in you, your body would start to make new serotonin. What you‘d „need“ would be chronic tryptophan depletion, which would be extremely harmful to both your physical and your mental health.

That‘s why I put the quotation marks around the word ”tried“ - a chronic tryptophan deficiency would be the result of starvation/malnutrition or some sort of metabolic disease.

chronic means just you do it for longer or what?
so if I wanna do this how would I go about doing it? Take amino acids (not tryptophan) and gelatin and only drink water and eat steak only?

 

[Hodor]

chronic means just you do it for longer or what?
so if I wanna do this how would I go about doing it? Take amino acids (not tryptophan) and gelatin and only drink water and eat steak only?

Dude, you *need* tryptophan to survive. Tryptophan isn‘t just used to make serotonin - among other things, it is needed for the function of a number of important proteins.
The idea behind „acute tryptophan depletion“ is to decrease brain serotonin levels only for a very limited time so you can study what changes will occur in a person or animal‘s behavior. It is *not* something that can be sustained for extended lengths of time.

 

[mb-909]

First of all people on this board can not help you with your problem the way a doctor or psychologist could in a face to face interaction. We do not know your personal history of illnesses, disorders and your social background.

Imagine the following situation: You have not felt so well for quiet some time and think you are sick. Therefor you test yourself in a professional context for all the things you would like to know about yourself. Nervously you are waiting for the results. The day they arrive you are shocked, because they do not match your expectation. You start to read on the internet and look up a diagnose fitting all your symptoms and possible shortcomings. You can not sleep, are agitated and nervous. You are certain you are ill, the results are proof of it. 3 days later the doctor calls you and excuses himself for mixing up your results with somebody else...

Than I first arrived at this board I was in full panic mode and talked about how MDMA totally fucked me up, but I had no proof of it what so ever. I wanted attention, attention I didn't get from the people around me. In the end I was searching for reasons to be down to nullify all threats of changing my life. I was addicted to misery, being the victim.

Over time I was able to reflect on my behavior, questioning myself and started to see the bigger picture in the end. To do so I needed to stay away from sources, which proofed to fuel my self-destructing-self. I needed to shut down and relax, which is freaking hard if you are not used to relax. Studying psychology has showed me that many psychosomatic problems, as well as mental dysfunctions are not simply a matter of genetic dysfunction, but a complex interaction between personal experiences, as well as biological-, social- and psychological variables.

I do not know you, but I imagine myself that you are under a lot of stress. In your own interest search for somebody, who can help you with your journey. Have a nice day.

 

[trainman04]

Dude, you *need* tryptophan to survive. Tryptophan isn‘t just used to make serotonin - among other things, it is needed for the function of a number of important proteins.
The idea behind „acute tryptophan depletion“ is to decrease brain serotonin levels only for a very limited time so you can study what changes will occur in a person or animal‘s behavior. It is *not* something that can be sustained for extended lengths of time.

DUDE. I said I dont care. Either say something that can benefit me or dont post at all.
Likewise to the comment below you. I dont wanna hear any of that BS ok I will just ignore it. I came here asking for serotonin help nothing ELSE. so dont tell me what to do. for 3 pages all you been complaining.