Charlottesville, Virginia

[Shimmer.Fade]

Three people died and about 35 were injured in a day of violence that began with clashes at a white nationalist rally on Saturday in Charlottesville, Va.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/12/542982015/home-to-university-of-virginia-prepares-for-violence-at-white-nationalist-rally

So. Where do we go from here? Previously, actions were seldom and threats much more common, but now these nazis are legitimately trying to harm/kill everyone who is not a white supremacist. Only more divisive language from the WH, but quite a bit of condemnation from Congress. I fear a bit that Pandora's Box has been opened, and that closing it will be harder than anyone could have imagined.

I don't like the idea of fighting hate with hate, but will love and compassion work against people so consumed by their hatred of anything different? I have no answer .

Here is the young woman who was killed by the nazi/white supremacist from Ohio:

Those of you who may try to excuse or minimize what happened do so after at least looking into this young woman's eyes.

As a species we have so much promise. Why do things keep ending up this way...

 

[spacejunk]

the argument that trump - and a large proprtion of his supporters - aren't fascists seems pretty tenuous at this point.

this violent mob rule - of people who aren't fucking oppressed by any definition, but claim to be - is utterly pathetic.

imagine if black lives matter acted like these entitled middle class white men - attacking people on masse, and marching around as an armed militia. it's not conceivable - they'd have been prevented from attacking people and intimidating people with firearms by the national guard as well as local police forces.

the fact that the police facilitated and protected these nazi scumbags is extremely telling.

it's time to roll trump, and protect our communities from fascist bullies while you still can, america.

 

[LiquidMethod]

Terrible tragedy. Nobody should be physically attacked in the act of peaceful protesting.

Before this senseless attack, a federally-permitted gathering organized by the right was harassed and physically attacked by Antifa ("anti-fascist"/anti-free speech) protesters, before being ultimately obstructed/dispersed by the police. There are reports that before the UniteTheRight rally even began, members were viciously attacked walking through swarms of Antifa - pepper-sprayed point blank in the face.

Afterwards, an ILLEGAL left-wing protest began and that's when this attack happened. Independent journalist Faith Goldy was reporting on this violation of free speech from inside the illegal mob before she captured some intense footage of the attack. (Warning: graphic video)

 

[socko]

After they lost prestige with the Kremlin, the USSR used to airbrush historic figures out of history books and photos. Removing historical statues is similar in many ways. Historical negationism was the trigger for the neofascist rally. It comes down to the Charlottesville town council telling people how to think. They don't have to agree with how people view a historic cause , but it is un-American to tell people how they should view it.


While they are at it, the Charlottesville town council needs to remove all statues and references to Thomas Jefferson. He owned slaves and raped them.

 

[effingcustie]

After they lost prestige with the Kremlin, the USSR used to airbrush historic figures out of history books and photos. Removing historical statues is similar in many ways. Historical negationism was the trigger for the neofascist rally. It comes down to the Charlottesville town council telling people how to think. They don't have to agree with how people view a historic cause , but it is un-American to tell people how they should view it.

No, actually it comes down to extremist right-wing hate groups inciting violence. Nobody is telling them how to think. If members of that community feel the statue is offensive and choose to put pressure on their elected officials who then choose to remove it, that is perfectly within their rights, and those who feel it should not be removed are perfectly entitled to protest that action. Nobody is being told what to think about the statue or it's removal.

I get that these rightwing snowflakes with a victim complex FEEL LIKE they're being told how to think since our culture is mostly intolerant of their hateful beliefs, but that doesn't mean they are. They're free to have their beliefs, and the rest of us are free to find them repugnant and tell them so.

While they are at it, the Charlottesville town council needs to remove all statues and references to Thomas Jefferson. He owned slaves and raped them.

Agreed.

edit: well agreed that all STATUES of thomas jefferson honoring him as an honorable person should be removed, in my opinion. historical references should not, and that did not happen here, a statue was removed because members of that community didn't want it there. nobody is pretending robert e lee never existed.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

If you go on any area of the internet, including ones contaminated with large amounts of Trump supports that actually have the means and intelligence to own a LIBERAL-created computer and go on a LIBERAL-created internet since these creaters whent to LIBERAL-top level universities...

you see virtually ALL trump supporters apologizing for this attack because there were a few fist fights "started" by the left wing groups. That was the shocking thing about this when I started seeing the response. You would think most republican constituents would decry such mass-attacks when it was perpatrated by one of their own (as they did with the Sanders supporter shooter) but no, the are all acting like its OK and deserved.

Punching someone in the face is not the same as ramming a car into a crowd of full of people choosing not to engage in a physical altercation while a few of them may have been.

...trump's statements equate fist fights with ramming cars into crowds of people, by saying "both sides" are at fault. Yes but both sides didn't commit mass/random/ non-specific LETHAL attacks on the other side. Its not even equivalent at all and Trumps refusal to call a spade a spade (when MANY republican policians have come out and done) shows that trump is truly aligned with the Klan, Nazis, and alt right despite never saying so verbally, his actions speak volumes

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Terrible tragedy. Nobody should be physically attacked in the act of peaceful protesting.

Before this senseless attack, a federally-permitted gathering organized by the right was harassed and physically attacked by Antifa ("anti-fascist"/anti-free speech) protesters, before being ultimately obstructed/dispersed by the police. There are reports that before the UniteTheRight rally even began, members were viciously attacked walking through swarms of Antifa - pepper-sprayed point blank in the face.

Afterwards, an ILLEGAL left-wing protest began and that's when this attack happened. Independent journalist Faith Goldy was reporting on this violation of free speech from inside the illegal mob before she captured some intense footage of the attack. (Warning: graphic video)

So its acceptable to ram a car into a crowd of people that weren't pepperspraying anyone because certain ppl within that crowd were pepperspraing the Nazis?

That would be like if someone at a concert pushed me...I come back with an AR 15 and start mass shooting the entire crowd.

The apology for this action from every trump supporter up to the president himself was actually surprising to me this time. At least the Republicans with educations (the ones in congress, don't know of any others that exist) are singling out the conservative side as taking things too far.

..before you call trump educated, allow me to point out that he speaks in a dyslexic fashion and despite being rich and having HIS dad try and bribe top-schools to allow little trump in, he didn't get it. At least jared Kushners test scores didn't show a border line level of retardation and inability to read as to allow HIS DAD to bribe top universities to allow him in.

 

[Scrofula]

Sorry socko, we have a whole stale thread about the statues. There is no way around the fact they were erected as specific reminders to a chunk of the population of where the city's allegiances lay at the time, namely with fighting to enslave them; there's no good comparison.

Liquid, your scenarios are always conspiracy. And leave out the point in the process. Here you go:

Liquid: Legit group did A

Conspiracy conspiracy B are the bad people
Talk at everyone till ban.
Somehow omits the dead people, yxdsf

And a President elected on a campaign that actively courts people who want to drive like that

Says "both sides".​

Did he even condemn it? Liquid, unless you do secretly live in the US, please do not make this another conspiracy, please? Or give it a year, first. Then we'll just make more severe fun in the thread on it.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

trump did not condemn the plowing of the car through the crowd. Just condemend the fistfighting that both sides participated in. He's ok with the plowing vehicles into crowds of liberals and brown ppl and knows that virtually all of his voters are thats why he says nothing. Not his base, not klan members, the majority of trump voters.


We can talk all we want about how lots of trump supporters aren't racist, they just voted for him because they wanted an outsider or a business man. Take a gander around any news site or youtube thread. How many conservatives do you see decrying this? How many do you see supporting it? You will be shocked I know I was at how it was virtually ALL support for killing leftists and totally justified because someone got peppersprayed or punched.

But these are the people that believe that it should be legal to shoot someone if you "feel threatened" so there you go, its just bonus points to them if they aren't white.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

"But these are the people that believe that it should be legal to shoot someone if you "feel threatened" so there you go."

I thought that was the cry of ANTIFA, are you confused or something? 'cause it's OK because they are "Facists" right?

 

[LiquidMethod]

Liquid, your scenarios are always conspiracy. And leave out the point in the process. Here you go:
Did he even condemn it? Liquid, unless you do secretly live in the US, please do not make this another conspiracy, please? Or give it a year, first. Then we'll just make more severe fun in the thread on it.

I'm actually getting really tired of your ad homs and personal attacks. You consistently fail to debate a point rationally and resort to childish taunts and insults
*waits for next message from scrofula doubling-down on accusing me of talking conspiratorial nonsense*

If any of you care about why these conflicts are happening then you need to start being honest with the situation and the people involved (on both sides).

My question for everyone here: should the UniteTheRight rally be allowed to gather and voice their opinions without their members facing violent attacks?

 

[Scrofula]

Ms. rose, you can drag that big trawling line full of bait hooks somewhere else. I suggest salon.com. They gave the world Glen Greenwald, they deserve it. I gaurantee you'll get plenty of bites.

 

[Scrofula]

No, liquid, I didn't really expect you to show respect for the people mourning in a country you don't live in, by waiting at least for the fucking weekend to be over before getting going on your conspiracies.

It's pretty simple: the person driving the car done did it.
The president who championed the driver's attitude, and refused to condemn it, shares fault.

Fuck your campus conspiracies of antifascist whatevers.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Scrofula both sides are at fault, if you can't see that I am truly sorry for you.

 

[spacejunk]

^ that's bullshit, like everything that comes out of trump's mouth.

these nazis are terrrorists, plain and simple.
antifascist activists only exist because of the increase in nazi trash on the streets.

blaming "both sides" for a terrorist attack on anti-fascists is ludicrous.

that's what we call it when hateful muslims drive a car into a crowded place.
law enforcement and the FBI have enormous budgets to deal with terrorism - and the fact that they are maintaining a hands-off approach here is disturbing, and seems to show how deep this toxic fascist bullshit runs in american society.

props to all the antifascists who stand up to these disgusting people.

 

[LiquidMethod]

The president who championed the driver's attitude, and refused to condemn it, shares fault.

This is an inflammatory, unfounded comment that exposes your evil agenda and disgusting thoughts. You're a partisan POS that refuses to acknowledge reality to further your Libtard agenda of intolerance and suppression of free speech.

 

[LiquidMethod]

Wow you have all lost the plot. Pro tip: this started by labeling these people Nazis and white supremacists.

So a black identitarian group is completely fine and celebrated (even when they chant for dead police and have them killed) yet a white identitarian group (who is peaceful and wishes to engage in an open dialogue) is considered unworthy of even being listened to. As soon as you cannot refute someone's points through words, and you begin to silence and attack them, is when eventually the pressure mounts and people snap.

The problem with you all is that you absolutely refuse to try to understand why this attack happened.
Instead you demonize the "other" as crazed terrorists and that's that.
Guess white people don't matter as much as everyone else.

 

[spacejunk]

he does share fault.

all those losers with tiki torches are trump fans, like you.
they're trump's brownshiirts.

he helped create this violent rhetoric, and emboldened all of these white supremacist fuckwits to march around on the streets bashing people.

trump, like, is apologist for these terrorists, and i don't think there is really anything to differentiate between them.
it's all the same toxic right-wing bullshit.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Liquid: P;ease stop making sense. That is simply not tolerated any more.

Thanks for your cooperation!

 

[spacejunk]

liquidmethod i'm not interested in engaging with time-wasting liars, so i'm going to let your pseudo-outraged posts speak for themselves.

fuck trump, and fuck nazis.