THE_REAL_OBLIVION
Bluelight Crew
Gazprom was going to help big time building it.
U.S. Cruise Missile Attack On Syrian Air Base
- Thread starter David Wooderson
- Start date
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
I did a bit more reading and I am seeing some arguments both ways. The most plausible case I have read which focuses on Russian intervention being based on this pipeline suggests the concern is more about the Qatar pipeline undermining European reliance on Russian gas than it is about Gazprom generating revenue from constructing the Iranian one. However, this article points out a number of fairly compelling arguments against this theory:
Iran shares a border with Turkey and already sends gas to Turkey, this seems like a more promising way to export gas to Europe than through Syria. Wikipedia confirms that there is an existing gas pipeline between Iran and Turkey. Moreover, as of last year there have been plans for Iran to construct a gas pipeline to Europe through Turkey which doesn't go through Syrian territory.
Saudi Arabia has prevented Qatar from exporting gas to the neighbouring countries of Bahrain and Kuwait, so why would Saudi Arabia allow Qatar to build a gas exporting pipeline across a significant chunk of Saudi territory?
Qatar already exports significant amounts of gas to Europe in liquefied form, it doesn't seem like it needs to bother building an expensive pipeline to export its gas. According to the US Energy Information Administration Qatar is the biggest exporter of liquefied gas in the world, or at least was in 2015.
I have not done enough reading to entirely dismiss the theory that Russian intervention in Syria is based on this pipeline, but these points present a fairly compelling case against that theory. So far it is only the second point about Saudi Arabia preventing Qatar exporting gas to its neighbours which I have been unable to confirm.
Iran shares a border with Turkey and already sends gas to Turkey, this seems like a more promising way to export gas to Europe than through Syria. Wikipedia confirms that there is an existing gas pipeline between Iran and Turkey. Moreover, as of last year there have been plans for Iran to construct a gas pipeline to Europe through Turkey which doesn't go through Syrian territory.
Saudi Arabia has prevented Qatar from exporting gas to the neighbouring countries of Bahrain and Kuwait, so why would Saudi Arabia allow Qatar to build a gas exporting pipeline across a significant chunk of Saudi territory?
Qatar already exports significant amounts of gas to Europe in liquefied form, it doesn't seem like it needs to bother building an expensive pipeline to export its gas. According to the US Energy Information Administration Qatar is the biggest exporter of liquefied gas in the world, or at least was in 2015.
I have not done enough reading to entirely dismiss the theory that Russian intervention in Syria is based on this pipeline, but these points present a fairly compelling case against that theory. So far it is only the second point about Saudi Arabia preventing Qatar exporting gas to its neighbours which I have been unable to confirm.
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Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Are you on drugs? The war is over Assad and any hopes he could legitimately represent most Syrians died a few barrel bombs and a couple gas attacks ago. The only people who want Assad to stay (outside of the non Muslims in Damascus) is Iran. As long as he is calling the shots, the fighters will come. Allah's snackbar is hungry for Syrian Arab army.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Maybe it is time to rethink the outdated conventions banning gas. I think it should be avoided in city fighting, but to kill al Qaeda in Tora bora would have been way cheaper. Let Assad kill the Sunni terrorists with gas.
zephyr
Ex-Bluelighter
Its not exactly the most selective weapon though. Man on man combat would be.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Man on dead gassed man would be really ideal.
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
There are estimated to be as many as 1,000 militias taking part in the Syrian civil war. Do you think they all get along? It's easy to say 'Assad needs to go', but who should replace him? I think ISIS will have an easier time in the power vacuum that forcibly removing Assad would create than they are currently. At this point you can put just about anybody in power and there will be armed groups who strongly oppose them.
I don't like Assad and I don't like dictators. But, there have been some pretty disastrous consequences when the West has intervened to overthrow dictators in the Middle East in the last 15 years, see Iraq and Libya. I never said Assad could legitimately represent most Syrians, but he isn't going anywhere, not so long as Russia and Iran are backing him. As far as I am concerned the only viable solution involves some kind of compromise with the Assad regime. I don't know whether that should be some kind of coalition government where he has reduced power, or restoring peace before he runs in internationally monitored democratic elections, or something else.
I think that right now what most Syrians want is for the bloodshed to end. I think the international community should be more concerned with this goal than who is ruling Syria when it is achieved. The West has a pretty bad track record of supporting brutal dictators in the Middle East, several of which remain in power today. The US was happy for Saddam to use chemical weapons against Iran when it was pursuing a dual containment strategy. The Western push to remove Assad is not about the welfare of Syrians, it is about helping their dictatorial Saudi allies maintain regional hegemony, while pissing in Russia's cornflakes as an added bonus.
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Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Anyway,my point is that Assad is a minority ruler and his actions have lost the rest of the Arab world. I made no comments on who should replace him, or his gassy matters.
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
I am not a fan of Israel, but this seems to be oddly simplistic reasoning. In post #127 of this thread I expressed some reasons for doubting the narrative you presented for Russian intervention in Syria, do you have any thoughts on this?
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Good post, I guess we'll never really know the reason (s)
I don't trust our government's intentions, especially when someone like John Mccain is advocating for regime change. Assad was democratically elected with international observation, we should leave him be. As bad as Saddam was, ISIS wouldn't be there with him in power.
It would be a wonderful step forward for humanity if we used our social media to actually poll the populations of areas. War torn zones, where voting and regular political practices are nearly impossible are problematic, we need to be creative and improvise how we collect a vote. The days of being scared of the Internet are ending. If we actually cared what the people that are being trampled on thought, we could do the right thing, it's their home and they have the right to decide, certainly I can see they have a right over me how their land is used. Money, and the politicians it buys, certainly shouldn't be trotting out fictional moral reasons when money appears to have taken authority from the inhabitants.
I was very happy to see the new Canadian government actually act on some of the wishes of the population. It would be a great day in politics when we stop electing people and releasing them with our authority to do as they please and instead make our decisions as a nation of people, then hire public servants to make it so. This back room handshake method of running the world is fucked.
The task of being in the military was originally a position created to be in support of the people of the nation. They were respected, given honour in our community as our defenders. Now they operate on foreign soil for vague reasons that are hard to pin down, there is no honour in fighting on the side of greed and oppression, it does appear there are 4 or 5 similar sides in this war and no clear direction from the population (who are fleeing for their lives from all the various sides).
Not surprisingly the people fleeing this area are being helped the least as they don't have money and there is no foreseeable profit from helping them so they are the last people helped and the first in need.
We could spend a lifetime sorting through all the pipeline deals and banking deals but in the end we are not helping the people, we are safeguarding the monetary investments of large corporations at the cost of human lives. Do you think your children should go die in a foreign desert so corporations and banks should profit?
I was very happy to see the new Canadian government actually act on some of the wishes of the population. It would be a great day in politics when we stop electing people and releasing them with our authority to do as they please and instead make our decisions as a nation of people, then hire public servants to make it so. This back room handshake method of running the world is fucked.
The task of being in the military was originally a position created to be in support of the people of the nation. They were respected, given honour in our community as our defenders. Now they operate on foreign soil for vague reasons that are hard to pin down, there is no honour in fighting on the side of greed and oppression, it does appear there are 4 or 5 similar sides in this war and no clear direction from the population (who are fleeing for their lives from all the various sides).
Not surprisingly the people fleeing this area are being helped the least as they don't have money and there is no foreseeable profit from helping them so they are the last people helped and the first in need.
We could spend a lifetime sorting through all the pipeline deals and banking deals but in the end we are not helping the people, we are safeguarding the monetary investments of large corporations at the cost of human lives. Do you think your children should go die in a foreign desert so corporations and banks should profit?
THE_REAL_OBLIVION
Bluelight Crew
It was the main air base some 30 km outside of Homs, which is in solidly Government controlled area, used to bomb ISIS. It is also the base that protected its airspace when this player who thinks it can run the world and turn it upside down again, which they did, I'm pretty sure, who had some fighter jets shot down by Syria's top 5 in the world best air defense, that country would be Foreign Country A in the Amerithrax "investigation". They had Foreign country A right as the 2 or 3 guys arrested on the George Washington Bridge with tons of explosives around 11 pm on 9/11 when they had these and the other group (the rock concert filming and picturing Israeli spies dancing in the parking lot to the Doric Towers in Jersey City, NJ watching the towers get struck, both of 'em.
2 million dead mostly children later, former Baathist atheist Generals who saw the light after being tortured who are heading ISIS, which is the artist formely known as Al-Qaeda in Iraq, something that didn't exist before the U.S. invasion, but that's Paul Bremer's de-b'aathism caused, threw out all the sunni "royalty" (there wasn't really sectarian conflict at all under Saddam, and he was pretty good at calming the shia with favours anyway... 1 million children dead in the 90's with Albright's psychotic ramblings and sanctions on Iraq, sanctions for complying, like Iran are doing, at least some of theirs are going away but not as fast as agreed...that can't be good in the long run... And now likely a million or more dead since the infinite Afghanistan war (yeah that's still going on btw), Iraq 3.0 (or is it 4.0) and now all out Syria attacks, unless this was a "shot across the bow" which makes Trump make less sense than Obama......which I can see happening! Oh god we're fucked.
To be perfectly clear, my joke picture, if you are a South Park fan, is pretty hilarious, I won't take time to explain it, other than Trump fans who thought he was never pull a Hillary are major r-tards, if I must be P.C. around here.
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Understandably this war has been long running and all the sides have reinvented their reasoning, still it is about oil money and who gets it. 2 million dead over money and climbing.
Even more informing is the lack of assistance some other nations are providing to the people fleeing for their lives. This war is costing America so much money they can't help the people they are fighting it for. Maybe America can just be honest and say it's about money before sending military there.
If this was for the people that lived there we would all be opening our homes to the fleeing refugees but the media have painted a picture of how we are to fear these fleeing victims as dangerous yet we need to fight and kill their oppressors but ignor the victims to the point of death. To see the truth just ask who is profiting, who is suffering, who are we helping?
Even more informing is the lack of assistance some other nations are providing to the people fleeing for their lives. This war is costing America so much money they can't help the people they are fighting it for. Maybe America can just be honest and say it's about money before sending military there.
If this was for the people that lived there we would all be opening our homes to the fleeing refugees but the media have painted a picture of how we are to fear these fleeing victims as dangerous yet we need to fight and kill their oppressors but ignor the victims to the point of death. To see the truth just ask who is profiting, who is suffering, who are we helping?
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Off topic I know...but one of the benefits of Trump is he has no hand in any of this till now obviously. That alone, him not starting any of this, makes him worth the price of admission for many I'm sure.
No, Trump is the single biggest threat to humanity in world politics.
He's a mentally unsound overgrown brat with the biggest military in world history at his disposal.
This shit with North Korea is approaching some Cuban Missile Crisis level MAD madness.
Nuclear war is no fucking joke. Most US presidents are capable of understanding this.
The war escalations also taking place in Syria, and in Afghanistan - the Mother Of All Bullshit; he's just another terrorist, killing innocent people in an effort to maintain his own power.
It really doesn't get much sicker or lower than that.
He's a mentally unsound overgrown brat with the biggest military in world history at his disposal.
This shit with North Korea is approaching some Cuban Missile Crisis level MAD madness.
Nuclear war is no fucking joke. Most US presidents are capable of understanding this.
The war escalations also taking place in Syria, and in Afghanistan - the Mother Of All Bullshit; he's just another terrorist, killing innocent people in an effort to maintain his own power.
It really doesn't get much sicker or lower than that.
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hillary clinton is a war-mongering madwoman who's going to get us all killed when she starts world war 3. we warned you about this but you didn't listen. you just did not listen. prepare your bunker etc.
oh wait.
nevermind.
alasdair
oh wait.
nevermind.
alasdair
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
I dont see trump as being responsible for the Norks. Either he be let to go nuclear or not. If you dont want Norks with nuke tipped rockets selling to Iran and Pakistan, there will be confrontation. Fuck if I care or know any Koreans but most of the South Im told wants to remain western oriented thus the sabre rattling.