Leftist Discussion Thread

[spacejunk]

^+1

Imagine how pleasant cities would be (especially in america, but everywhere, really) if there were no homeless indigent people in them, that instead everyone who wanted one had a place to live, and the financial means to pay the rent.

Decreasing the wealth disparity in any given country or region doesn't only benefit the lives of the poorest people.
It benefits everyone - richest to poorest and everyone in between.

Our modern economic systems are broken. To refuse to acknowledge this helps nobody, and indeed works against the best interests of pretty much anyone that does so (whether they're rich or poor).

Productivity means nothing when there are more people than there are jobs.
It's really not that hard to comprehend if you're open minded enough to do so. It is getting to the point in some countries where universal basic income is being proposed for the sake of making economies more sustainable and stable.
People with money tend to spend it.
People with nothing don't add much to the economy.

It's really not such a radical idea.

 

[What 23]

ryan it's bo joke mate them antifa guys are pretty nasty. I saw one on the news the other day and he actually tipped a litter bin over and rolled it along the ground, I even think a bit of litter spilled out!
Pretty serious shit!!

I thought you said it's a b.o. joke, but you mean no joke.

They just shut down Charles Murray (co-author of The Bell Curve) from speaking event at a college, injuring a woman's neck- who was trying to help him back to his car (I read this somewhere else-- I will come back with the source).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...liberal-college-he-left-fleeing-an-angry-mob/

The demonstrations began conventionally enough, with several hundred organized protesters packed into a lecture hall Thursday, chanting and holding signs. They ended with Murray being forced to cancel his lecture and later being surrounded by an unruly mob made up of students and “outside agitators” as he tried to leave campus, according to witnesses and school administrators.

After swarming Murray and two school officials, the protesters shouted profanities, shoved members of the group and then blocked them from getting to a vehicle in a nearby parking lot. Witnesses said the confrontation was aggressive, intimidating and unpredictable and felt like it was edging frighteningly close to outright violence.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I'm trying to make a case for universal base income. The reason I used the unpublished poet example is to try to say that it should not matter if you are productive or not. There is a lot of judgement against welfare recipeints and their lifestyle and bad habits. Universal base income wouldn't be the same as welfare because it woudn't be meant to prod people into goign to work at McDonalds for a below subsistence income. Life isn't about productivivty or the bottom line or how many widgets you will consume in a given year. Everybody should be enttitled if they need it, no matter how they spend their time, and nobody should be homeless or hungry..

Ah, okay. I agree with you on that, I just couldn't tell at first if it was a subtle attack on the 'lazy' and the underemployed, as soso78 seemed to have interpreted it. Always hard to read peoples' faces through text on the internet hahah.

There's no sense in having homeless and impoverished people when we could do away with the problem entirely within the decade.

I think with a healthier society, though, there would be fewer parasites. People don't like to sit on their ass all the time, especially when they find something that they are passionate about, or enjoy. I think the goal of this basic income is making less people disabled by circumstances... basically working to increase the health of society.

Exactly.

 

[Soso78]

it sounds like it would be lovely if money were distributed more evenly but I can't see any way of that happening.
It just sounds like fantasy.
People with money just won't give it up.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

There's too many loopholes and ways for the wealthy to hide income, plus most of our politicians are shills.

If only the 'swamp' could be 'drained' eh? 8)

I would have loved if Trump had picked all outsiders and non-billionaires for his cabinet, but he decided upon insiders and billionaires out the ass instead... oh well, I guess politicians lie sometimes, who knew?

it sounds like it would be lovely if money were distributed more evenly but I can't see any way of that happening.
It just sounds like fantasy.
People with money just won't give it up.

I'm sad to say I agree with that doesn't mean we can't dream of, and work towards, a more equitable economic future for all Americans.

 

[consumer]

yes consumer.
I wouldn't give anyone anything so they dont rob me.
So what your saying is if we give thieving cunts enough money they will stop being thieving cunts?
Are you even from this planet?
Thieving cunts are also greedy cunts so they won't ever stop, they will take what you give and then take what they can steal too.
They're cunts!! Lol

You seem to lack basic comprehension skills so i will spell it out for you.

When people have nothing they have little option but to take what they need from others.

If you provide a social safety net then many of the crime problems associated with having nothing are reduced or eliminated.

Comprehend?

 

[Soso78]

no one in the UK has "nothing" because there's benefits.

Just to be clear I have been specifically on about the portion of the UK that are unwilling to work and not people unable to work.

 

[consumer]

Yes and you want those people to receive nothing. ...and then what do you think will happen?

What will this incredibly well thought out solution of yours achieve.

Can i ask in your twenty years of heroin and crack addiction did you ever steal? Sell heroin or crack to people that got their money from theft? What exactly did you go to prison for?

 

[Soso78]

hold your fuckin horses a sec consumer!
When did I say I want anyone to have nothing?
All I said was I don't want to go to work to pay for someone who chooses not to.

Ive done more illegal things than
I can be bothered to list.
I claimed benefits and stole to fund my habit.

What your suggesting is called enabling lol
How much should an unemployed crack/heroin adict be given to stop them comiting crime?

 

[consumer]

So these people that dont want to work...do they get government benefits or should they get nothing? Lets be clear about what you are on about.

So it was ok for you to steal, claim benefits etc when you had a habit but now you dont you get to complain about people claiming benefits and stealing...lol

 

[socko]

^why do people turn to heavy drug use in the first place? Lots of reasons, of course, but among the top reasons are anxiety and misery caused by living in squalor with no way out. Universal income will give people some breathing room to learn skills that could lead to a way out. Drugs are fun and exciting and other people are just going to do them anyway. Legalize everything, and the price will drop. Provide treatment options rather than punishment for addicts.

 

[consumer]

^why do people turn to heavy drug use in the first place? Lots of reasons, of course, but among the top reasons are anxiety and misery caused by living in squalor with no way out. Universal income will give people some breathing room to learn skills that could lead to a way out. Drugs are fun and exciting and other people are just going to do them anyway. Legalize everything, and the price will drop. Provide treatment options rather than punishment for addicts.

Yep i totally agree Socko

 

[Soso78]

yes, if they don't want to work they shouldn't get anything. If they're capable of work but don't want to then why should hard working people pay for it?

Yes that's about the size of it, just because I did wrong in the past doesn't mean I can't see it was wrong now.

Do would you pay them more the more crack they smoked to alow for tolerance increase do they didn't have to steal?

 

[consumer]

So despite you saying you never said anything about people getting nothing it is exactly what you meant? Am i missing something here?

 

[socko]

^ The point of Universal Income is that everybody would get it and would be free to spend it as they want. The US is a rich country, and you can look at the federal budget and think of a good way to get the money to pay everybody $15K per year or something without increasing taxes.

Heroin and fentanyl are super cheap to produce. Legalize it, and even the most addicted could stay high for less than $10 a day. Even somebody on universal base income could afford it.
If crack were legal, and therefore cheap, how long would a crack addiction last before the addict is forced to either make a choice to quit or die?
Recreational drugs would be taxed to help fund Universal Income.

 

[Soso78]

sorry my mistake.
I thought you ment I said no one deserves benefits.
Obviously people need help sometimes but the system we got at the minute doesn't work and lack of money is a big part of it.

Where would all this money come from for all the lazy cunts to buy drugs?
Do you think more people would find that option more apealing and it would lead to less people bothering to work?

 

[swilow]

Tax the rich! They have more than enough.

Whether universal income would cause greater unemployment is speculation but I don't imagine it being a lot of money.

You have to question our system. We actually imagine that working is a right. I question how much we have had the wool pulled over our eyes if we imagine that only a productive economy is a measure of success. Like many I'm sure, I've wanted to drop out entirely.

This system has failed all of us.

No rest no fun no peace.

 

[Soso78]

socko there's already enough adicts without giving everyone 15k and cheap drugs.

i don't think legal drugs would be cheap, they would be taxed so much they would still be expensive. A pack of fags cost pennies to make but cost a lot due to the tax and other drugs would be the same.

 

[socko]

Nobody has invaded America for more than 200 years, and for good reason. It is an unconquerable country. It is protected by natural barriers and an armed populace. It's surrounded by vast oceans, deserts, and Canada. Nearly half the population is armed. That translates into an instant guerrilla army of 100 Million. Afghanistan with a much smaller guerrilla army of illiterate opium farmers armed with 19th century carbines has fought off the world's two strongest armies ever. The US military gets nearly 600$ BILLION per year. Abolish it and give the money to the people. That's just for starters. The money is there, and it would not hurt most people to fund Universal Income.

Opiates would be cheap. Cocaine is much more labor intensive and expensive to produce. Just keep taxes balanced between affordability and revenue. I think part of the appeal of drugs is the fact that they are illegal. Legalization would take away the mystique and it would be like drinking a beer.

If hard drugs were cheap, I don't think most people would use them. Happy people who are busy doing things they enjoy won't be as tempted to escape reality as people working in a grinding job or people who are living in poverty. People who are doing nothing with their lives tend to get into trouble. I agree that nobody should be idle, but I think some things that are worth doing but pay.

I don't know the answer, but I think we've moved too far i the direction of punishment and prohibition.

 

[Soso78]

dont know if you've noticed but america doesn't use its military to defend America, it uses the military to invade countries half way round the world.

You think you could do away with the military and trust in armed citizens to defend America? Oh yea on top of that give all the armed citizens loads of money and cheap crack and heroin!

America is only so powerful because of its military ffs, you think a bunch of drugged up rednecks could do the same job.