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Riots Break Out In Berkley Over Gay Libertarian Immigrant Speaker

How is it that drug users (who i am assuming abhor drug laws) would be against law abiding citizens lawfully owning a gun...be it for recreation or protection? I just cannot understand this lining of thinking though i guess i respect that people feel differently than i do. It strikes me as disingenuous, similar to those who support abortion while being against the death penality. Still, different views are what make our forum interesting.

Anyway, a bit off topic. Back to Milo. God is he foxy. The things id do to him! ?
 
I think the "system" that allows such a disparity between the haves and have-nots is s bigger problem than the guns themselves.
 
morninggloryseed said:
Can you be specific? What are you disputing?
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that guns save lives.

morninggloryseed said:
Your links about background checks have no relation to what i posted.
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it was a segue - sorry that was not clearer.

morninggloryseed said:
How is it that drug users (who i am assuming abhor drug laws) would be against law abiding citizens lawfully owning a gun...be it for recreation or protection?
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how not? that said, i am a drug user and i support law-abiding citizens' right to bear arms. but that doesn't mean that gun owner-ship should not be tightly regulated. it's a perfectly consistent position and it's constitutional.

morninggloryseed said:
I just cannot understand this lining of thinking though i guess i respect that people feel differently than i do.
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indeed.

morninggloryseed said:
...similar to those who support abortion while being against the death penality.
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i support abortion and oppose the death penalty. i believe that a woman has the right to make her own decisions about her own body. i do not believe that the state should be interfering with a woman's decisions about her own body.

i oppose the death penalty because i do not believe that the state should be in the business of killing its own citizens.

republicans/right-leaners/whataver thinking in these areas are inconsistent with their general belief in 'big government is bad' and the superiority of individual rights over state interference. if they were not hypocrites, they would join me in supporting both a woman's right to choose and in opposing the death penalty.

alasdair
 
Guys i dont want to beat a dead horse but its right there...guns do save lives.

2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

consumer said:
Per capita gun related death rate comparison. Per 100,000 people.

Australia 0.93
United Kindom 0.23
United States 10.54

Yep guns save lives....not.
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morninggloryseed said:
Guys i dont want to beat a dead horse but its right there...guns do save lives.

2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”
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come on, man. you're smarter that this.

your figures talk about the use of guns defensively only. but there's no definition of that term or breakdown of these numbers into more granular categories.

so, for all we know, of the 500,000 to 3,000,000 "defensive gun uses" per year, half of them could have prevented, for example, theft or robbery.

you're suggesting that every single (or even the bulk of) cases of defensive use of a gun saved a life?

that's not just specious. it's naive.

alasdair
 
This is not an argument i wish to have because we all are secure in our beliefs and they are unwavering for most of us. I am glad a law abiding citizen has the right to buy and use a gun for self defense. I am glad few Americans support restricting the right to self defense with a gun.

I love to go to the range and shoot. Just a .22 for me, bigger guns make me nervous.
 
Self defense argument is lacking. If defense is the argument, you'd be better off with government issue flak jackets.

In Australia, you don't need a gun to defend yourself because, more often than not, the other guy won't have one either. We just use broken bottles. :\
 
In a perfect world (fantasy land) guns would be banned and criminal and law abiding citizen alike will line up to turn in all the guns.

Then murders will only be committed with knives, poison, and explosives. Problem solved.
 
I regret implying self defense was the only reason to have a gun. Sport and "i have the right" are other reasons to own.

I also strongly wish to see heroin and cocaine legal,so perhaps i am an extremist?

swilow said:
Self defense argument is lacking. If defense is the argument, you'd be better off with government issue flak jackets.

In Australia, you don't need a gun to defend yourself because, more often than not, the other guy won't have one either. We just use broken bottles. :\
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I guess I was saying self defense is a poor argument., not the only one ;)

Isnt the freedom to own a gun also the freedom to shoot people? No society should enshrine that sort of freedom imo.
 
Actually it is illegal to use a gun to commit murder, robbery, or anything outside of sport. Even self defense can be iffy in some localities. I guess i take for granted that folks know using a gun to commit a crime is illegal. Well, it is.
 
Sadly in the us&a, many feel the need to have more than a broken bottle. As our great selectident says, we got a lot of bad dudes here. :/

swilow said:
Self defense argument is lacking. If defense is the argument, you'd be better off with government issue flak jackets.

In Australia, you don't need a gun to defend yourself because, more often than not, the other guy won't have one either. We just use broken bottles. :\
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I would never expect for my European and Australian friends to understand why gun rights are important to Americans. Just as i cannot understand making my love in life being made to wear a black burlap sack for modesty.

Still, id hope at a bl meetup you all would still want to have a toast and friendly conversation with me. For what it is worth, i do not own a gun...and you guys will always be family to me. ?
 
morninggloryseed said:
I regret implying self defense was the only reason to have a gun. Sport and "i have the right" are other reasons to own.

I also strongly wish to see heroin and cocaine legal,so perhaps i am an extremist?
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like in the same way alcohol is?

Maybe you are responsible enough for cocaine and heroin, as are some experienced users. But freely accessible cocaine and heroin would be an utter nightmare. The should be decriminalized....but not available next to the swisher sweets at the gas station
 
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