2016 American Presidential Campaign

[kong]

"Some guy"

lmao



like I said... scary

Yeah and the GOP nominee for President thinks Ted Cruz's dad helped kill JFK, doesn't mean he did.

You're doing appeal to authority, the guy really only has his title, he has no evidence of this huge conspiracy actually happening.

 

[ArCi]

Wait... are you saying that he's lying? All of the stuff he said was just made up?


You obviously know more than Mr. Schulkin... Why would he make all of this up?

 

[kong]

Wait... are you saying that he's lying? All of the stuff he said was just made up?

Sure, he's lying, he's delusional, amphetamine psychosis...lots of explanations that are easier for me to buy than he is somehow privy to a massive conspiracy theory involving busing crackheads around and paying them to vote more than once.

You obviously know more than Mr. Schulkin...

There you go with your appeal to authority again. Why don't you go back to my post where I outlined the monumental challenges a person trying to implement this strategy would face and attempt to debate that? Show me how this strategy is easier and more effective than spending the money on traditional campaigning.

Why would he make all of this up?

Maybe he doesn't like Hillary and knows he needs zero evidence to convince large portions of the public that she was fraudulently elected. Anyway, his reasons are beside the point. The issue to me is how unbelievably hard this strategy would be to implement. Herding legions of crackheads just doesn't sound that appealing.

 

[SKL]

The above rather absurd scenario of voter fraud is not at all what most people are getting at. illegal immigrants, convicted felons, etc. are groups that reliably lean Democrat; as are the various groups that Democrats weep and wail about not having access to proper ID (minorities, college students.) Making it easier for these folks to vote = locking in Democrat victories, all the more so with mailing ballots to welfare recipients, etc. essentially you hear a great deal of crying from the Dems about "vote suppression" &c. and the Federal government actually took it upon themselves to essentially overtake the electoral system of several states via the Voting Rights Act, grossly and in the most literal sense a violation of the federalism our (deeply flawed) political system is built upon.

All of this, going back years, tilting things left; and a measure to restore reason as simple as requiring proper ID is greated by social justice sycophants as being racist, etc. Bullshit. I have lived years without proper ID and very basic daily activities become very difficult, and in most situations it is not difficult to get ID unless you are (a) here illegally; (b) wanted for a crime and thus wishing to avoid DMVs where state police are known to pounce on people with warrants or (c) a miniscule and statistically insignificant for electoral purposes number of people who get screwed over by bureaucratic mishaps.

Surprise, surprise, (a) and (b) weigh heavily Democrat when voting and heavily non-White.

Fortunately our Communist mayor's efforts in NYC and similar ones in San Francisco, etc. are not going to have a lot of impact across the board as these cities lean solidly Democrat anyway; although de Blasio, while more ideologically fit for Bernie Sanders, made a deal with the devil in supporting Hilary in various ways, endorsement being the least of them (itself and an act perhaps unlikely to endear him to the more political portions of his base, i.e. left wing predominantly White and Jewish college activist types) but to his presumably chagrin and to my delicious schadenfreude she's already freezing him out and will take his calls, etc. only thru no name intermediaries (see article just a few days ago in the Times.)

Much more worrying are the in many places already realized laxening of standards for voter registration; this in almost any conceivable instance benefits clearly one party over the other. Fortunately the Supreme Court has taken a rather jaundiced view of the grosser infringements on federalism and States' rights in Shelby, Northwest Austin, inter alia, although unfortunately this case did not go nearly far enough—§4-5 being essentially the last of the Northern aggressions of the Reconstruction occurring ironically on the centennial of the beginning of the Civil War. And although the party system was in the middle of a realignment at that time with Democrats in the South although in decreasing numbers still being the party of White supremacy.

The ultimate effect of §§ 4(b) and 5 was, if not nakedly partisan, pursuing further political change by manipulation of the electoral process, in essence, the most potent Gerrymander of all time, perpetrated by the federal government. Which is exactly what is being done today, with exactly the same justification of "civil rights," identity politics, and so on which have now for the better part of a century at least at the ballot box been nothing more than imaginary monsters under White and Jewish liberal beds used to agitate often undererucated and politically naïve minorities (to say nothing of overeducated and politically naïve students) to predictably vote advantageously to one party, particularly in places like Florida where it actually matters.

The spectre of the graveyards being practically a precinct in Chicago no longer really haunts American democracy although such fraud does occur on a smaller scale at times. The abuse of proxy and absentee ballots for institutionalized persons in nursing homes, facilities for the mentally ill (which I have seen myself), is a large and underreported problem but probably one of relatively little aggregate significance, although recall that G.W. Bush's first victory by at least the initial and official count was no more than 2 or 3 nursing homes worth in a state full of them! The issues around race and immigration status, however, are infinitely more troubling, with the Democrats being a bit of a default and taking further advantage by promises of social problems, exploitation of dog whistle issues like the alleged epidemic of police brutality (which is entirely of the creation of the media, there being no evidence of any recent aberrations in the number, but only in the reportage, of issues.)

 

[kong]

The above rather absurd scenario of voter fraud is not at all what most people are getting at. illegal immigrants, convicted felons, etc. are groups that reliably lean Democrat; as are the various groups that Democrats weep and wail about not having access to proper ID (minorities, college students.)

Alright, show us cases of illegal immigrants and convicted felons voting at 1/100th the rate of the number of people disenfranchised by voter id laws.

Making it easier for these folks to vote = locking in Democrat victories, all the more so with mailing ballots to welfare recipients, etc. essentially you hear a great deal of crying from the Dems about "vote suppression" &c. and the Federal government actually took it upon themselves to essentially overtake the electoral system of several states via the Voting Rights Act, grossly and in the most literal sense a violation of the federalism our (deeply flawed) political system is built upon.

All I'm hearing is you guys are having trouble implementing conservative policy when more people vote.

All of this, going back years, tilting things left; and a measure to restore reason as simple as requiring proper ID is greated by social justice sycophants as being racist, etc. Bullshit. I have lived years without proper ID and very basic daily activities become very difficult, and in most situations it is not difficult to get ID unless you are (a) here illegally; (b) wanted for a crime and thus wishing to avoid DMVs where state police are known to pounce on people with warrants or (c) a miniscule and statistically insignificant for electoral purposes number of people who get screwed over by bureaucratic mishaps.

How do you register to vote as a felon? Show us some evidence this happens. The pearl clutching about this stuff is hilarious given there is so little evidence it happens.

Much more worrying are the in many places already realized laxening of standards for voter registration; this in almost any conceivable instance benefits clearly one party over the other. Fortunately the Supreme Court has taken a rather jaundiced view of the grosser infringements on federalism and States' rights in Shelby, Northwest Austin, inter alia, although unfortunately this case did not go nearly far enough—§4-5 being essentially the last of the Northern aggressions of the Reconstruction occurring ironically on the centennial of the beginning of the Civil War. And although the party system was in the middle of a realignment at that time with Democrats in the South although in decreasing numbers still being the party of White supremacy.

Northern "aggressions"

Oh for fucks sakes...we're going back to the war of Southern filth enslaving black people so you can complain about the federal government stopping the South from disenfranchising minority votes?

Anyway, I disagree with what is as far as I can tell (in between all the incoherent rambling about Jewish students being taken in by dog whistles or whatever you were saying) is your premise that because voter disenfranchisement generally helps democrats that it is a partisan issue which is therefor wrong for the left to pursue. We can just as easily say the GOP knows these laws disenfranchise far more minority voters than they will ever prevent voting fraud so they are partisan and therefore shouldn't purse the laws.

It's a really small thought, it doesn't need a page of text to fit.

 

[noone1]

Oh yes the video I was wondering when someone would reference that. Okeefe has a history of airing edited and doctored footage. I wonder why the video starts in mid talks with no context as to what's going on and there are lots of jump cuts?

 

[Bella Figura]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ropriate-remarks-about-10-year-old-girl-video

*SHUDDER*

 

[JessFR]

I tend to go by the philosophy that there's no smoke without a fire.

How often does some guy get caught in some sex scandle, immediately denies it, then all these women suddenly appear from the woodwork who can be verified to have been in personal contact with said man at some stage, not to defend what a nice guy he was to them, but instead to say "oh yeah he raped me too" "yep he touched me as well". Then after all that, it turns out in the end the guy really was innocent after all. It doesn't happen. People do make up stories for lots of reasons, high profile people do get attacked for even more reasons with unfounded accusations. But when there's a possibility it really didn't happen, say with Michael Jackson, a whole bunch of other people come out loudly proclaiming they were there and should have been one of the supposed victims if it were true yet haven't a mean word to say about them.

I believe all people should he innocent in the eyes of the law until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, but being there's PLENTY of qualified people who could be president for whom there's no claims at all of sexual misconduct. Innocent in the eyes of the law is one thing, being innocent in the eyes of the voting American public is another

I've hated both candidates from the start, and had little care despite all the horrible things trump has said whether he's elected or not. Bit this last week has changed my mind. I won't go so far as to say I want Clinton to win, but I do now want trump to lose. If there's any chance at all these accusations are true. It's many magnitudes worse than clintons stupid email shit.

Fuck trump. I hardly want 4 years of another Clinton administration. I'm sick of seeing a presidents last name running for election more than twice all together. But I trust my instincts, and my instincts for trump the man as he portrays himself, I see someone who isn't acting like a man accused of something he didn't do. I see a man who acts like he not only did do it, but probably secretly thinks it's ok but at least understands the public well enough that he can't say he thinks what he did was ok. I doubt he thinks he's a rapist or anything like that, in his mind he probably thinks they wanted it at the time and are only bringing it up now for political reasons. The second part of that may have some truth to it, but it's irrelevant. It still makes him a predator that blows everything we know about Bill Clinton out of the water.

I can't help but wonder what his wife thinks.

These are sad days for the republican party. I don't identify as either republican or democrat, I have sympathies and disagreements with both. I think it's sad that the republican party nomination process resulted in such a mess and what it means for the future of the nomination process.

But those are tomorrows problems. Todays problem is who will lead the country for the next 4 years. I never hated George Bush, I've never hated any candidate as a person. But barring some miraculous exoneration of trump, if he is the kind of man in the slightest as he's not only being portrayed but as he portrays himself. Then for the first time i hate a candidate, and in the horrifying implausibility that he comes president, he will be the only president i will have ever hated as a person besides nixon. Nixon was a criminal and a traitor whom I probably wouldn't have been sad to see hung as a traitor to his oath, his office,and the country. But even he, far as we know, didn't abuse women.

To all the trump supporters out there, I share your distrust of Clinton. I support the constitution and the 2nd amendment, and not in the way Clinton supports it, the real way. I support it because I believe women especially have a right to, should any so choose, have weapons to protect themselves, rather than the Clintonesk "oh yeah of course people should be able to hunt dear thanks to the second amendment" kind of support. And I mention this because I know a lot of people consider the second amendment is the primary reason many republican voters are republican voters. But no matter what your views are on the 2nd amendment or the Republican platform. Just imagine for one moment that what's said about trump is true. Nobody can say for sure what will happen as a result of another 4 years of democrat administration. But one thing is for sure. The moment trump wins, were he to win, he will be president elecy, and soon after he will be sworn in. And once that happens, there's no going back. If it's true whats being said about him, it won't stop after the election, it will be a national disgrace. The worst embarrassment and disgrace to the presidency since nixon, and possibly the worst ever because we knew. We had reason to believe it was true BEFORE the election. It will be in the history books forever taught to our children, who will look back on us and wonder what were we thinking?

I can understand simply not being willing to vote Clinton. But at this point, how can anybody, a republican at that, a member of the party that's supposed to be the protectors of morality and family values, how can you vote for trump? You don't have to vote, or vote for either of them. I can understand party loyalty, but you're supposed to be American's first and republicans second. And can you imagine, given the state of the country as it already is, if trump gets in and winds up having to be impeached because someone finds proof these accusations are true? A very real possibility. It won't be in the history books,but you too won't ever be able to undo knowing you voted for him. I don't want anyone reading this whos a trump voter to jump back and tell me how wrong I am. I mean if you decide to do that, that's great, but do me just one favor. Just think about what I've said. Let yourself take a moment to yourself, remember that you are participating in a choice for who will lead the most powerful country on the planet, your country. And you owe it as a someone fortunate enough to be able to participate in this decision to spend just a few minutes away from defending trump and taking yourself back to before the nomination with what you've seen since,and ask yourself. Are you voting for trump because you're voting republican, or are you voting republican because you're voting for trump. Because on top of everything I've already said,if he gets in and proof is found, that will also become apart of republican history forever too.

Think about it.

 

[noone1]

Wow Trump is getting absolutely destroyed. This is like Cosby. You can't argue these women are just opportunistic either most of them tried to tell their story (about being grabbed in the pussy no less) before and where dismissed. The ones that are coming out are super legit and have pretty good evidence for this sort of thing.

Ha ha gross Trump saying within earshot of 10 year olds that he's going to be dating them in 10 years.

Clinton has been kind of a dead fish at both of the debates, I'm starting to wonder now if that was on purpose to keep donny on the ropes. It would be really bad if he pulled out. The Republican party is being slowly pulled apart. I love it.

 

[kong]

Katrina was on CNN arguing that the armrests are fixed on planes from the era when Trump supposedly groped the women on the plane.

We've never seen incompetence like this out of a major political party. They seriously think they just need to convince the 9/11 truthers that jet fuel doesn't melt armrests and they'll win the election. The scary thing is armrest trutherism probably works on a good portion of the deep conservative minds.

Newt is talking about a little Trump and a big Trump as if little Trump is responsible for all the sexual assault and we can all just vote for big Trump come Nov.

Michelle Bachman is explaining how Christians voting Hillary will cause more sexual assault.

I keep thinking we've hit peak comedy, but there may be a ways to go.

 

[alasdairm]

"it's just words"

turns out it's not just words.

alasdair

 

[JessFR]

I for one don't find this funny at all. But then unlike a lot of people I don't have any particular deep hate of the republican or democratic parties. I feel bad for the republicans actually. The nomination process wound up with this disgusting pig, and now it's too late to undo it. So their only choice is to desperately try to convince themselves that trump isn't exactly what he acts like, which deep down I think a lot of them kinda know he is. The only alternative is to let Clinton win, and I think for a lot of republicans this is more about making sure Clinton loses than ensuring trump wins. But they know the only way to do that is to sell out their conscience and try to convince themselves that voting for trump can be morally justified.

I mean just take a step back, forget the accusations and go purely on the shit we know trump has said. The republican party is supposed to stand for family values, protecting the traditional family unit, religious freedom and Christian values like not having sex outside marriage. Just from what trump himself has said alone, he's a complete farcical mockery of the nuclear family values the Republican party historically supports.

Is it any wonder so many republicans are disowning him. Say what you will about their beliefs, but at least those republicans aren't hypocrites. You may not agree with what they believe but at least they know they can't support trump, their values, and have a clear conscience. The ones that really need to reevaluate what they supposedly stand for are the ones who claim to hold those values yet defend a man who's a mockery of them.

Trumps not a republican, he's just on the Republican ticket.

 

[JessFR]

"it's just words"

turns out it's not just words.

alasdair

Even if it were just words, never underestimate the power of words.

People kill themselves over 'just words'. Verbal abuse can cause decades or even a lifetime of damage.

And more on point, words can effortlessly sink a political candidate if they're the wrong words.

Entire careers, years and years of distinguished work can be lost and totally forgotten because of single sentences.

One thing me and a friend noticed that I did find amusing, was the woman saying he was like an octopus and like he suddenly had six arms. That's one poor octopus, it's missing too arms.

 

[noone1]

The sad part is this attack on him just solidifies in the mind of his millions of hardcore supporters that there is a conspiracy against him the more he's destroyed the more "anti-establishment" he becomes and the more the conspiracy becomes real. Never mind that he's on record decades ago saying that he has too many skeletons in his closet to ever run for public office...

I'm against Hillary too but his supporters are a dangerous cult that need to be crushed. These people live in their own reality where facts and evidence don't matter.

 

[JessFR]

His cult will dissolve soon after they've used up the last of the medias attention complaining how Clinton won because the vote was rigged. Then we can all move on. And the GOP can have a long hard think about how to avoid this happening again in the future. His cults not big enough to win him the election.

The election isn't decided by the fanatics, as it stands unless something devastating happens to clintons campaign, I'd say trump has already lost. The elections just a formality. And if more emails like what were seen so far are all she has to worry about going forward, I don't think she has much to worry about.

 

[noone1]

^If their history pans out they'll bitch and whine and make endless threats alluding to 1776 but end up doing nothing when they face any real resistance. But you never know and this time the candidate himself is going to be out there encouraging sedition. I can't believe I'm at a point in my life where I think of people like G.W Bush, Mccain, and Romney as decent politicians (compared to what we have now)

 

[Droppersneck]

I think Donald, in all reality, is a third party candidate. It is clear he does not subscribe to the gop platform. I think he carrys enough of the principles to hang onto the base. This race is a lot closer than the media is projecting, and you can tell they are freaking out by throwing any and all journalistic principles, out the window. With people of my mindset, this is the rejection of globalist ideals, establishment politicians, and big war. Never thought in my lifetime the republican would be the anti war candidate, but that is what we have folks. Clinton has made it clear we will be going to war with Russia, Yemen, etc. Many many people outside of your preconceived notions are voting for trump with their own unique reasoning. I'm not terribly certain that the tactic of shaming his potential voters will pan out for Clinton. In my mind that leads to tremendous voting out of resentment/ alienation/ the gambit

 

[JessFR]

Worse still is there's still yet another debate for trump to make him look like a whiny crybaby in and for him to remind people that he seems like exactly the kind of person who said the shit he's on record saying.

Ironically the best political move trump could probably make now is to say and do nothing and just let people forget about his bs and remember clintons. He won't though. I used to think he might be smart and just using a brilliant tactic to win the nomination, and then switch to a strategy to win the white house. Apparently it wasn't qn act though. He's still fighting like he's trying to win the nomination. He's too arrogant to realize he should perhaps actually listen to his political strategists.

He also could not have picked a worse opponent to face given what's come out these last few weeks. He already had a major problem with female voters. This last week had made that problem substancially worse. And to top it all off. He has to face the first major woman presidential candidate at that.

If he had half a brain he would switch tactics to treating Clinton as a wonderful person, just not the right person to be president. Because his current tactic of full on attack couldn't be a worse strategy in this current political climate.

And bringing up bills affairs is even worse still. As if it weren't bad enough what he's been caught saying about women sexually, he's going to attack a woman in a love event bringing sexual scandles into the discussion ON PURPOSE. If he had any clue what he was doing at all he'd distance himself as far as he possibly could from ANYTHING that might make people think about sexual scandles or insulting women while thinking about him.

Funny quick of human psychology. Clinton could easily damage trump further by simply and tactfully saying "I have nothing to say about the rumors of sexual assault supposedly committed by my opponent and I think such rumors are distracting from the political issues". And just keep saying it. Over and over. And every time you do. It will further cement it in the minds of the public. Trump = sex scandle.

You could even just say "any claims about Donald trump supposedly assaulting women are baseless rumors spread by sensationalist media". And just keep saying it again and again and again, and that'll work too. People don't remember the "I don't believe it's true" part. They just remember Donald trump means sexual scandle. It's a classic and extremely effective advertising and political strategy. And that's one interesting and somewhat disappointing lesson from this election. Donald trump is NOT an expert politician even if he's so arrogant as to think he is. And as it turns out, being a very good politician (in terms of winning elections, not in terms of doing good for anyone) such as Hillary Clinton is, can easily kick an amateur's ass.

Clintons making all the right moves and trumps making all the wrong ones. It doesn't matter at all what the hardcore supporters say, it doesn't matter what the press says. The election will be decided as it always is, by the less extreme majority who don't follow it as closely as we do. And they're the ones this shit works on.

 

[JessFR]

I think Donald, in all reality, is a third party candidate. It is clear he does not subscribe to the gop platform. I think he carrys enough of the principles to hang onto the base. This race is a lot closer than the media is projecting, and you can tell they are freaking out by throwing any and all journalistic principles, out the window. With people of my mindset, this is the rejection of globalist ideals, establishment politicians, and big war. Never thought in my lifetime the republican would be the anti war candidate, but that is what we have folks. Clinton has made it clear we will be going to war with Russia, Yemen, etc. Many many people outside of your preconceived notions are voting for trump with their own unique reasoning. I'm not terribly certain that the tactic of shaming his potential voters will pan out for Clinton. In my mind that leads to tremendous voting out of resentment/ alienation/ the gambit

It doesn't matter if she shames his voters. They were already decided long ago and locked in, her words aren't for their consumption. Her words are to associate ideas of extremeism and radical opinions with trump voters, solidifying in the minds of the people her words are really for that trump and his ilk are dangerous lunatics. And many of those people, if she says it enough, will start to associate those two things together and forget exactly who said it provided she backs off just before the election.

Clinton is playing strategy. Which is smart.
Trump is being... Trump... Which is very very effective for a certain portion of the public, most of whom were already republicans. And it's what got him the nomination. Problem is he's still being trump and his only apparent strategy is his delusions that his fanatic base is much larger than it really is.

Trump has two things going for him.
1. He's not Clinton.
2. He's not a politician.

Both of those wielded effectively could be very powerful. But I think trump thinks he's smarter than his political advisors and strategists and isn't listening to them. And I think he will lose because of it.

In my opinion, if trump were better at political strategy, he would drop all personal attacks and threatsagainst Clinton and shift towards a more positive message. Tell people that he respects Clinton as his opponent for president, but keep reenforcing how much of a career politician it is. At the same time, separately, enforce a message that career politicians have ruined this country and the country needs a president they'll think for himself. And that that person is him. Let people remember why they don't trust Clinton and keep reenforcing what appeals to people about him, but in a way that will work to win the presidency rather than the nomination. And absolutely do not insult Clinton or bring up bills affairs or anything like that.

All it looks like is more childish whining "wha mom the moderators weren't fair to me" "wha she was involved in sex scandles first!". Shit like that. It's just making the problems with his own scandle more memorable and believable.

And absolutely DO NOT threaten to see Clinton jailed. One uniting force among both sides of politics is both tend to support their own ideas about what the constitution and what America means to them. And while both sides have different interpretations, the thought of a president locking up people he doesn't like (and even if he didn't say that, that's how it's remembered) is highly unappealing to the moderates of both sides.

 

[noone1]

Trump has already hinted that he might not make the third debate. I'm cautious though you never know what can happen he might have an October surprise for Clinton and then swing in for the kill by being competent. But it seems doubtful. More likely he probably knows the last debate is going to be where Clinton and her campaign let loose, these news stories are a little taste. I think we'll know after the 19th who the candidate will be for sure. But this election keeps springing surprises.