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LSD and The Psychedelic Experience: A manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead

lysergamide

lysergamide

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Just interested to discuss using LSD alongside the book: The Psychedelic Experience. Has anyone experimented with the instructions for visions and reaching a powerful ego loss experience.

I have used LSD 100s of times and many other psychedelics but never followed a protocol such as this. I normally lead trips due to experience and don't see how it would be possible to do the experience solo without someone reading the instructions. But I have found similarities in my experiences with higher doses and also in comparing the description of the bardos and seeing friends struggle to go with the experience, fighting it and their struggle manifesting into bad trips.

I also feel that with psychedelics the trip can easily be influenced by what you have been told or read (a bit like people in the past re-experiencing toilet training/birth/etc being caused by reading too much around the subject rather than it actually being the reality of the situation) so I am naturally a bit dubious of this approach to tripping but after years of tripping my own ways would like to experiment with some of the more popular methods and guides.
 
I have read this book too its a great read!
But i have not really tried any of its instructions though. Tbh i read it a little while ago so i have kinda forgotten what i read exactly.

But i do remember when reading it feeling like i didnt really need its tips to get through bad trips, and we have dmt for complete ego death hehe.
I have taken a good bit of lsd aswell and ive never had complete ego death. But i have had some experiences i cant put words to, truly astonishing the mindstate lsd puts you in.
I feel like not everyone needs this book because if you have your own way to your mind you probably dont need someone elses i guess :P

Im happy to see someone post about this book though ide recommend it for inexperienced trippers and even people on the search for more knowledge.
 
I also have a copy of this book for years and read pieces of it. I never did follow it though as I need to trip how I need too. I am sure we have all experienced some of the states listed in the book whether following it or not. Great book though, thoughtful at least. Some nice metaphors.

I have however a few times many years ago read through the middle part of Be Here Now when I was tripping. It is set up a little easier to read while high. That was very cool and my young mind learned a lot.
 
I have read the book before tripping and then read the instructions while tripping. I found the book very helpful, both in helping me gain insight into what I was experiencing during trips, as well as how to better navigate those experiences.

Ideally, you need a guide because when you're in the middle of a trip it is difficult to recognize where you are, which set of instructions applies and read and understand them. It would much easier if an experienced guide was there to remind you what was going on and what you were supposed to do.

None the less, I have experiences where reading the instructions almost immediately freed me from whatever game I was caught in and helped me attain to a deeper transcendence. I really need to experiment more with this book.
 
I found the book to be utter bollocks. The whole point of a psychedelic experience is to free yourself from man-made religions and ideas. Following someone elses bullshit rules from some pathetic religion created by fucktards thousands of years ago to manipulate the vulnerable is the exact opposite of psychedelic to me.
 
Ismene said:
I found the book to be utter bollocks. The whole point of a psychedelic experience is to free yourself from man-made religions and ideas. Following someone elses bullshit rules from some pathetic religion created by fucktards thousands of years ago to manipulate the vulnerable is the exact opposite of psychedelic to me.
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I wouldnt put this book on the same level as christianity though, it does try to help you. Christianity wont even let you perceive yourself these days..
 
Ismene said:
I found the book to be utter bollocks. The whole point of a psychedelic experience is to free yourself from man-made religions and ideas. Following someone elses bullshit rules from some pathetic religion created by fucktards thousands of years ago to manipulate the vulnerable is the exact opposite of psychedelic to me.
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You do like to shit on other people's parades don't you Ismene ;)
 
Must admit psy, I do get a bit lairy when psychedelics are bunched in with man-made religions solely designed to prop up power structures.
 
I'm not sure I'd agree with the statement that Buddhism is solely designed to promulgate oppressive - as you're insinuating - power structures. Nor am I sure that it could be argued... Otherwise, yes, religion has been bastardized for millennia and dogmatism should be avoided and ritual up to personal discernment.
 
Tibetan buddhism certainly was - they instigated a vicious feudal power structure where the tibetans were used as slaves while the monks lived as they pleased. That lasted for about 900 years so buddhism didn't do much for their enlightenment did it. I think human rights developed in other countries were the tibetans only hope of being saved from the savagery of the buddhists. I think the punishment for taking a monks goat was to have your eyes gouged out. What was the first law? "Don't have attachment for possessions but...fuck with my goat and I'll put your motherfuckin eyes out"
 
Ismene said:
I found the book to be utter bollocks. The whole point of a psychedelic experience is to free yourself from man-made religions and ideas. Following someone elses bullshit rules from some pathetic religion created by fucktards thousands of years ago to manipulate the vulnerable is the exact opposite of psychedelic to me.
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I completely agree Ismene and this is why I haven't bothered with it until now. For years though I have pursued my own methods of tripping and I can't help but be curious. I don't think something should just be disregarded because it was made by someone else though and can't see anything in the instructions etc as a way of manipulating me.

Some of the behaviours and sensations discussed in the book are very relatable to what I have seen happen when people fight ego loss or the intensity of an LSD experience. I actually found some of the methods very relatable and realistic, I don't think it's manipulating in any way, the book is also freely available information and it does state it is merely a guide and not to be taken as a matter of fact or the only way, so I don't think it should be tarnished with the same brush as religion.

I can't really knock it till I've tried it, have you ever orientated a trip in its direction? It sounds very similar to typical breathing exercises and mantras that many people find themselves using when tripping. Some of it a bit mystical/air'y, but utter bollocks I wouldn't say so, I think breathing and reassuring words are sound advice but I do disagree with the concept of ego death. But as previously stated I couldn't see anyway of actually incorporating it into my trip, it can be hard enough to string a sentence together sometimes on trips let alone know the specific times to read a specific statement from a book.
 
Never tried it myself lyserg - I couldn't see me sitting there during a trip listening to a tape of myself going "That which is ego death is now coming to you". Anything that smacks of religion really gets my hackles up when I'm tripping too. I remember Lennon saying he'd done the whole bit - recording himself saying it all and it had been great the first time but not so good the other times.

If you can get anything out of it then fair enough - but I'd always be thinking "If the religious states were so similar to psychedelic states why did they end up with ideas like the untouchables and feudal tibetan buddhism? Can the psychedelic state ever really be described in words? And is the wording so vague that you can take it to mean pretty much anything you want? To some the koran is a book of peace and to others it's a book of war. Similarly with the bible being used by both right-wing and left-wing. The language can be interpreted pretty much any way you want. I don't think the psychedelic experience was actually an accurate representation of the tibetan book of the dead either - Learyd altered lots of it to sound more trippy.

Interesting that Lennon always said Tomorrow never knows came from the tibetan book of the dead rather than Learys book. George said "The tibetan book of the dead doesn't really say that. I think John got it from the psychedelic experience".
 
Ismene said:
I don't think the psychedelic experience was actually an accurate representation of the tibetan book of the dead either - Learyd altered lots of it to sound more trippy.
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This! If anything I'd be interested in the original. And I don't have much respect for traditional tibetan buddhism either for the reasons you stated, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there's nothing in the text that could be useful for me. I haven't read it yet, but when I saw a documentary about it once I was impressed that one section dealt with a phenomenon that has repeatedly come up in my trips. That is being confronted with frightening images ("the wrathful gods") and the only way out is not to fight them or to run away but to realize that they are nothing but a distorted reflection of your own mind.

And listening to my own recorded voice? Hell no! I couldn't stand that sober even...
 
All really good points and I certainly agree with trying to play back the recorded instructions. On some other psys it may be possible, but I think on acid it may just lead to fits of giggles. I would also be more interested in checking out the original. I have enjoyed reading some of Timothy Leary's other texts though, but I do always take his and any other psychedelic literature with a pinch of salt though. I see them as theories or ideas to inspire me on my way to my own conclusions rather than fact.

I can normally get myself to where I want with acid just by taking the right dose for me and getting in the right setting. Most people I have taken it with don't really use it in this way though. I find 300-350ug will give me a real cathartic release and open myself up to changes I need to make and integrate to my life, but I've seen others end up getting naked and loosing their shit on these doses. I've never felt like I've been reborn though, more aware to things I had forgotten such as certain outlooks on things or to not take things so seriously. After reading these responses I've came to the same conclusion as always, that with LSD and psys its all about the dose and setting. It seems entirely subjective to the person.
 
Ismene said:
I found the book to be utter bollocks. The whole point of a psychedelic experience is to free yourself from man-made religions and ideas. Following someone elses bullshit rules from some pathetic religion created by fucktards thousands of years ago to manipulate the vulnerable is the exact opposite of psychedelic to me.
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It's easy to sit in your armchair and criticize others but I'd like to see you write a better book about the psychedelic experience. I'm glad you know what the point of the psychedelic experience is, but I don't understand why you don't think the book couldn't help free someone from man-made religions and ideas. What "bullshit rules" does the book say you have to follow? The book tells you how to reach the void state of intellect, free from ideas and concepts. How is that not a liberating experience?

I don't think the psychedelic experience was actually an accurate representation of the tibetan book of the dead either - Learyd altered lots of it to sound more trippy.
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It doesn't claim to be an accurate representation of the Tibetan book of the dead. It says that it is a manual for the psychedelic experience based on the Tibetan book of the dead and it encourages readers to write their own manuals. Personally I don't care all that much for the Buddhist bent of the book myself (although I don't have a problem with it either), it's all the pertinent information about the psychedelic experience that makes the book valuable to me.

Basically the idea of the book is to give people, especially newbie trippers, a reminder of what the hell is happening to them so instead of freaking out or resisting they can learn to enjoy the experience and go deeper.

If you don't like it, fine but it would be nice to hear reasons other then

the book is based on a religious text
Religion is bad
therefore, the book is bad.

Just because religion has been used for evil and manipulative purposes doesn't mean there is no usefulness in religious concepts. For example if I wrote on manual on a method of hunting pheasants that made use of guns Ismene would most likely say "guns are used to kill people, therefore guns are bad and so your manual is bad because it relies on guns".

But it's important to use logic and critical thinking rather than simply respond from emotion and personal biases against guns/religion, etc. It's absolutely true that guns have been and still are used to kill people, but that does not mean you can't use a gun for positive purpose. Why couldn't the same be true for Buddhist concepts about the human psyche?
 
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burn out said:
Basically the idea of the book is to give people, especially newbie trippers, a reminder of what the hell is happening to them so instead of freaking out or resisting they can learn to enjoy the experience and go deeper.
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This.

I don't identify the book as religious indoctrination, rather a guide for ego death. It was instrumental in my spiritual birth and I found Leary's descriptions of the visions to be shockingly accurate. It doesn't say "become buddhist", instead it offers literature "for those interested" in pursuing it.

If I were tasked with being someone's guide for a mystical psychedelic experience, this book would be my primary resource.
 
I have just started reading this out of nothing more than interest and I doubt I will be applying it to any trip I have. Good read so far though.
 
burn out said:
It's easy to sit in your armchair and criticize others but I'd like to see you write a better book about the psychedelic experience.
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For a start the idea of the book is that it's based on something written thousands of years ago by someone who had never taken LSD in his life. I'm pretty sure I'd write a lot better book about tripping than someone who has never tripped.

How is that not a liberating experience?


Because it's a very, very limited view of the psychedelic experience. If sitting in a room listening to a voice droning on about religious ideas from thousands of years ago is your idea of a good time then great. I wouldn't introduce someone to psychedelics like that. I'd take them out walking in a beautiful spot in nature, listen to music, watch a film. Anything but sit listening to some twat droning on about silly ideas of ego-death.

Just because religion has been used for evil and manipulative purposes doesn't mean there is no usefulness in religious concepts.

If religion means something to you then great. Just don't try and move in on psychedelics and claim that man-made religion have psychedelics covered. I've heard a lot of people claim psychedelics are only good until you find religion - that's utterly repulsive to me. Psychedelics are their own path.
 
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