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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Talk Thread: Somatic Swirly Sepia Summer Sausage Stage Set Suppository

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No I've never tried DMT, Bluuberry, had the opportunities but I'm not really keen on it for some reason. Just worried about losing 5-meo-dmt for good because it will likely disappear soon.

Having only been to one festival before, I actually still identify with much of what you described SKL. There were lots of jerks there passing off fake 'molly', a gang of jerks selling 60 dollar eighths of bud for a day who packed up and booked it when they ran out, some weird old dude who came by and blessed us with some smoldering sage (which I actual thought was cool hahah), and most memorably for me because I was freaking out on mushies, some dude not far from our campsite shouting about how he wanted to go home and to please let him into the camper he was banging on the door of. That guy disturbed me at the time hahah. Saw some ugly fest chick pissing on the ground too, before the music had even started, that was quite weird...

Anyways, in general, those fests are absurdly pricey. I wanted to go to a fest in Austin last month, but was only able to afford a single day pass, because weekend-passes with camping cost around 400 fuckin dollars! Wtf is that!? I literally only wanted to see two of the acts, but if I wanted the convenience of a tent to hide in when things got to be too much, I had to fork over 400 for it!

Yeah, the festival economy is extremely capitalistic. No one puts on those fests or works those fests out of the goodness of their heart. It's a big frickin sham and they con all us young people out of our hard earned (or maybe mom and pop's hard earned 8)) money. Once I was able to procure psychedelics outside of the festival setting, I stopped going to them. Sure, the music can be good, it can be sublime, but it's not worth two weeks wages just to fry to terrible renditions of 'Fire on the Mountain', when I could do the same thing at home for free and get to listen to the Dead play it instead.
 
I agree that the big festivals are absurd. However the small and medium-sized festivals can be amazing. I've been to a couple this year, the smallest was 250 people and it cost $20, I had an amazing time, met a large majority of the people and everyone got to recognize each other and hung out and felt companionable. My favorite festival experience thus far was Shakori Hills in NC this year... I'm guessing maybe 3000 people max, I got in free as a VIP because my friend's band was playing but it cost under $100 if I recall. Amazing time, 3 days of great music. I didn't know any of the bands going in but everything was really fucking good, and there was a huge range of styles of music. The best set I've ever seen from anyone was there too. There were lots of kids (like young children) and lots of adults. Everyone I met was really nice and everyone was smiling. I went to a huge 30,000+ person, really expensive festival for my first one, and although I loved it, I have loved the smaller ones much better since.
 
The one I went to was small too, maybe 1500-2000 people. People were friendly, and we got a few good deals on some dank mushies and hash candies. Music was actually real good, and it only cost 60 bucks for the weekend, camping included. I'm not saying that festivals aren't fun, and certainly the smaller ones are much more personal and down-to-earth; however, the same drug pushers and loons you see at the large fests show up at the small off-season fests too, as I saw at the small festival I attended. Fake 'molly', expensive weed, people being hostile if we didn't know the Head lingo (we were newby 20 year olds, how were we to know head lingo???)

They can indeed be great, but the number of small affordable fests are vastly outnumbered by the large extravagant ones. I don't know of any small fests in my area, in fact it's so bad, I might travel back to Arkansas in a few months time just to attend the bi-annual small fest I loved so much up there.
 
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Are you really saying that you think all of our problems come from protestantism? Because if so, that's mind-boggling to me. Problems have existed such as to cause the downfall of every major civilization. In my mind the problems are inherent in human nature. They are an intertwined coupling of two things:

- Some people have the type of personality where they are obsessed with accumulating wealth/power over others in a sociopathic way. These people are attracted to positions of power and through those positions of power they undermine the effectiveness of the governmental system they're in by corrupting it to build their power over, and off of, the people.
- The majority of people look to something else to tell them what to believe (ie, "sheeple"). And additionally humans have a propensity to form an "us vs them" mentality, which causes divisions and hatreds.

I won't even get into catholicism vs protestantism since we have discussed that before. All I'll say is, religion is a social framework tool to keep people in a general format so as to form societal bonds among vast groups of individuals. it has its place and I'm not sure it could realistically be done away with, but they're all ways to get to the same place. I can't buy that any of them are correct and all the others are wrong. They all bring good and bad things into the world. Largely the bad things are the result of my first point above, corruption by sociopathic power-seekers. This affects Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam, and every single other major religion that has ever been and ever will be.

All of humanity's problems started with agriculture. If you, and by you I mean whoever so happens to be reading this, haven't read Sex At Dawn yet, check it out. It changes everything.
 
For context, the original quote was: [cite="A wise man once said," i.e. I'm not sure who]A wise man once said that the average man believes that all our problems begin with World War II, and educated man believes that all our problems begin with World War I, and a true student of History believes that all our problems date to the French Revolution (and perhaps whereby to the Protestant Reformation.)[/cite]

Like most such maxims, it's an oversimplification or even a sort an allegory. By no means was the world a perfect place before each of these events, which brought about world-historical change mostly for the worse, and were almost inconceivably bloody affairs (to which we might add the two American Revolutions of 1776 and 1865, one won, and lost, both strongly driven by global (large 'l') Liberal Capital(ism), which more or less won out on both, and questions of ascendant new orders of capitalism versus collectivism and tradition...neither having anything to with ideals of "freedom," contrary to what is generally taught in school.) When I refer to the Protestant Reformation, while of course I don't agree with on religions grounds (although Luther had legitimate grievances, and never intended to start his own religion—that came later, and was very much influenced by many currents more political than theological; traditional Lutheranism, which is fairly rare these days, is much more Catholic than most Protestant and in fact some nominally Catholic churches today!) what I am really talking about is a sociological phenomenon of the primacy of individual subjectivity over communal tradition, manifested in Luther's case, as he became more radicalized, by ideas of "the priesthood of all believers" and the idea that Scriptural interpretation is up to the individual (every man, or every pastor, his own Pope.) While the French Revolutionaries were hardly Protestants, they extended the same sentiment from the religious into the political realm, and began the modern trend of political mass murder (the closest European equivalent up until that point having been the Albigensian Crusade, with the infamous words of the papal legate overseeing this arguable genocide against a heretical sect in France, Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. Kill them all—God shall know his own [and spare them eternal damnation.]) So, ironically, "freedom" from the traditional order of things and an emphasis on the individual over the collective actually contained the germ of modern totalitarianism—"freedom" imposed by force. This is a departure from the way that humans have lived in the past, and one to which we as a species are ill suited. This problem of course can be traced back further, from "hydraulic empires," and as some do, even to agriculture (Dr. Goldsmith was forever trying to turn me on to this idea; someone mentioned Sex at Dawn, which I think is the origin of this thesis), I don't really buy this, that we were better off as hunter-gathereres or what have you, I would say that small agrarian communities on a sort of feudal model would be the kind of society I would like to revert to; the essence here being community, excess emphasis on individuality and the idea that, as Leary put it succinctly (although it hardly originates with him and has nothing necessarily to do with psychedelics, being rather a central tenant of postmodernism), "Every reality is an opinion. You create your own reality." This is the prime cause of much social pathology, alienation and anomie in the modern world, and is a great enabling factor for how as Xorkoth says sociopathic, power hungry people come to dominate the world: they can do so by manipulating people's supposedly self-created reality to match their own. A thousand years ago, nobody believed that they created their own reality, their own religion, their own government, or anything or the sort; they were more "free" than we are today in their ability to live out their human lives without all the excess bullshit.

I'm at work atm so have limited time to post so this is just an abbreviated sketch of some of my thoughts in response to Xorkoth's questioning my mention of the Protestant Reformation.

More later on the history stuff as well as about festivals and drug trafficking there.

With regards to the latter, Bluu, I didn't post this before, but in your post on the last page I have to take exception to your comment about profiteering from the "medicine." We are hardly Martin Shkreli. Furthermore that's a very élitist viewpoint. If it weren't for people who brought work from the insular hippie circles to the mainstream, then only the people in these insular circles would have access to the "medicine" (a term that I find troubling), and should not those middlemen who bridge the gap, or who connect each level of the pyramid, get paid for their time, effort, and most importantly, given due compensation for the inherent occupational hazard of serious prison time? Sure, you'll find the occasional Johnny Acidseed, but if you think LSD is a "medicine" that people should have access to, I'd hope that you think that access should be broader than just for "heads," yes?

More later on all of the above.
 
SKL, fucking hilarious song! To be honest I can't stand current GD/Phish shit for the most part either. And I agree that most "old heads" are full of bullshit myths. So tired of hearing about people debate the differences between amber / fluff / needlepoint, or tell me that they "make L" only to hear they are laying blotters, lulllz. I'm not in the northeast and from the sounds of it I don't think we would hit the same festivals. I actually go to festivals to see artists that I like, to dance, and to socialize. And of course create general light hearted mischief. There's certainly tons of people wandering around with bunk. I roll around with a test kit and test everyones shit for them, I'm generally not even trying to get any, just wanting to spread knowledge and HR. I live in a place where it's as easy to get a sheet at the grocery store as at a festival, maybe even easier. But yeah, that post was definitely hilarious, and don't worry the humor in it was not lost on me. I can't take just about anyone in the scene seriously, except for mostly the staff that put on the events I go to - good people with a head on their shoulders for the most part. I think the "fleathers" (the feather and leather people) are even worse than the GD /phish lot kids though. At least the GD kids are pretty welcoming, the fleathers are just elitist pricks who won't give you the time of day if you arent wearing 1000$ in fashionable crap.

Also got a good laugh about walking around with your girl and having everyone check her out. I guess I just thought the whole thing was funny because working the scene like that is such a shit job, with the heat (both senses of the word), the long hours, working while everyone else is just having a good ol time. Fuck that noise. But I guess that's what you gotta do if you're not heady enough. ;)

Regarding spreading the medicine - why do you take odds with the idea that psychedelics are medicinal for many people? I've had breakthroughs that left me changed for the better, even years later still going strong with those changes. Sure, there's a lot of recreational use, but sometimes recreation can be a really good medicine too. Of course I think people should get compensation for their risks, eventually they'll have to pay lawyer fees most likely, which will probably be impossible given the income of your typical psych dealer. It's just really not that profitable compared to something like coke. Which was why I thought the idea of getting rich off of infiltrating hippie circles was laughable. I'm not one of those "drugs should all be free maaaaan", but at the same time I don't personally associate with people who try to make a large profit off of middlemaning psychs. And yes, I agree that the medicine should be available to people even outside of "heady" circles. It flows like water on the dancefloors, doesn't matter if you're dressed heady or not.

Thanks for being a good sport. I used to like opiates, never enjoyed H though, too sedating for me. Now I don't really like any of them, can't deal with the nausea. Sorry to hear about your current struggles man, sounds like a lot. Stay positive brobro :)

My post was a bit rambling: to be more clear, I do agree that people should be compensated for their work, but I think most people are dealing garbage and don't know anything about their own business. Test kits are still mostly unheard of. But the people I know who have the best psychs are not in it to make money, it's just something they do to share with friends, family, and strangers. If you want to really make some money, why not just grow or middleman weed or sell coke? It's unlikely that you're going to make enough extra loot by selling psychs that you'll be able to afford a lawyer, because they love giving ridiculous charges for psychs - precisely because the powers that be are well aware of the disruptive effect they have on any kind of status quo. A friend told me recently of his plan to sell L and I just laughed at him and broke down the numbers and showed him how little he would make and how many transactions would have to happen, etc. The look of his face just dropping into a frown was priceless, lol.. Might as well just get a day job, or sell something that actually makes profit, unless you genuinely want to share medicine. You talked about the whole thing from a profit-oriented perspective, so I don't see why you personally would care about people outside tight circles partaking in this stuff? Other than you having more custys.

Anyone who likes electronic music should check this guy out, he is doing some great shit. I listen to it on studio monitors though, I tried using my laptop speakers last night and it sounded like absolute crap, so YMMV. https://soundcloud.com/charles-thefirst
 
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SKL said:
French Revolutionaries...mass murder

May I throw in a quote from my favorite author on the subject (from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court)?:

Mark Twain said:
There were two 'Reigns of Terror', if we could but remember and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passions, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon a thousand persons, the other upon a hundred million; but our shudders are all for the "horrors of the... momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty and heartbreak? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief terror that we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror - that unspeakable bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.


SKL said:
Or am I disrupting an echo chamber I helped to create?

If you think the PD social, or PD in general, is an echo chamber, you must not have been reading for a good number of years. Whether you mean that in tone, philosophy, or political content (unless you think that you stopped pyschedelic people from arriving at social conservatism, but that would be cray-cray). I think that the period you were from, that has been undergoing a revival in the last couple years, is different from one that I contributed to as a major member/mod in the dark times (the periods preceding and subsequent to it are spoken as times of light and goodness, so I assume that's how some'a y'all think about it).

psy997 said:
If you, and by you I mean whoever so happens to be reading this, haven't read Sex At Dawn yet, check it out. It changes everything.

I haven't read that, but looking it up, it sounds like an insignificant contemporary retake on a small section of the material covered in Friedrich Engels' The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State way back in 1884.
 
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May I throw in a quote from my favorite author on the subject (from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court?

Sounds rather like an apologist for Stalin, Mao, or Hitler. These deaths were necessary for progress, etc. Pale in comparison to lack of progress, etc.

I haven't read that, but looking it up, it sounds like an insignificant contemporary retake on a small section of the material covered in Friedrich Engels' The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State way back in 1884.

kind of iirc, I haven't read either for a very long time and probably just skimmed both more or less
 
SKL you are a weird guy... I cannot stand you for your political views and your ideas about society but on the other hand you seem like a very educated and reasonable guy. well I guess it's just refreshing to see that not every conservative / rightwing is an incoherent mess like most of those trolling cep

took another 2c-e microdose today and went running immediately after. I think I am taking a liking to this :D
 
"Every reality is an opinion. You create your own reality." This is the prime cause of much social pathology, alienation and anomie in the modern world, and is a great enabling factor for how as Xorkoth says sociopathic, power hungry people come to dominate the world: they can do so by manipulating people's supposedly self-created reality to match their own. A thousand years ago, nobody believed that they created their own reality, their own religion, their own government, or anything or the sort; they were more "free" than we are today in their ability to live out their human lives without all the excess bullshit.

I actually do resonate with a few things you're saying in your most recent post, but I fully disagree with this point. I think that people being able to create their own reality makes it MORE difficult for the power hungry people to control you, though on the other hand it creates more disorder in a way because you're going to have people going many different ways. I believe religion and dogma (there certainly exists nonreligious dogma as well though religion is by far the primary method of delivering it) are the most powerful and frequently used tools to control the masses. If you set up a system where there are certain "truths" and no way to ever question them, and these truths center around the fate of your soul, it's incredibly easy for anyone with a mind to gain control and the drive to actualize such to control the beliefs and behaviors of the people. On the other hand, people who believe as they see fit are much more likely to not buy into that controller's agenda. Time and time again religion has been the vehicle for corruption, and I think that's unlikely to change.

Regarding globalization, as you put it, "Liberal Capitalism" (but I mean it in more than just a capitalistic sense, I also mean in terms of culture), I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I love the vibrant differences between cultures, the fact that things can be drastically different elsewhere. And the current culture spreading across the globe has done a whole lot of bad in the world, both to other cultures/its own people and to the environment. Most frighteningly, it provides an excellent framework for the power mongers to be able to utterly control the planet. And in fact that's probably the force that's going on behind it, or at least, a big part of it (I also think it's inevitable that technologies such as cell phones, satellites and primarily the Internet will cause such a trend to emerge). But, I also think it may be our only chance of ever coming to a productive peace as a race. If we rid ourselves of nationalism, it may be possible to eliminate the us vs them mentality that causes hatreds based on race and other differences. And if we could set up a benevolent distribution of resources and energy, we might be able to figure out how to provide a better life for more people, and a cleaner planet (imagine for example a global electrical grid, we could put a bunch of unclear power plants in places far away from the ocean and earthquakes and tornadoes and such, where it would be extremely safe, and get rid of them in places like Japan and the American west coast, but still have power for everyone). I realize this is quite idealistic, I suppose it relies on eliminating the power monger aspect of humanity, as does any solution of government or religion. Hence our pickle.
 
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I haven't read that, but looking it up, it sounds like an insignificant contemporary retake on a small section of the material covered in Friedrich Engels' The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State way back in 1884.

It's a quick read, check it out. I certainly wouldn't call it insignificant.
 
It's a quick read, check it out. I certainly wouldn't call it insignificant.

Apparently I can buy it on my tablet, and I have a gift card lying around somewhere for that, so I'll read it soon. I'd also recommend the one I mentioned if you haven't read that, obviously given the limited information available in the 19th century, there are some of factual errors, but overall it's quite impressive (a quick read as well, and available for free online).
 
^ both are worth a read, as I said, IIRC, and looking over the wiki entries, I'm much more inclined to give the Engels bit a longer rereading, as I really, really love 19th century scholarship in general, as they always seemed to "see both the forest and the trees." Sex at Dawn
, though, I feel like I read through a few dozen times in conversation with a few hippie/New Age/psychedelically-inclined psychotherapists and psychoanalysts, especially one with whom I used to be in quite frequent contact, the aforementioned Dr. Neal Goldsmith, notable for organizing the annual Horizons conference in New York, along with his Psychedelic Healing: The Promise of Entheogens for Psychotherapy and Spiritual Development, a pleasing, if somewhat limited (necessarily, by audience at length) treatment of the subject, albeit from a different perspective than I now share, I reviewed it around the occasion of it's publication, and did so on a blog that is now long disappeared (sadly, neglected, then hacked, then the domain dormant which I snapped up at re-sale, though without it's content), I'd be happy to see it again. Perhaps I'll seek it out.

I disagree with the fundamental thesis, though, that agriculture is the "root of all evil," I see the more perfect time in our history as a fundamentally agrarian one and the tilt towards dysfunction coming sometime thereafter in human history.

Warning: absolutely massive [size=-1]TL;DR[/size] political post incoming tonight (I started it last night took a break, worked through much of this evening ...)

In advance,

Q. Why do you post these and why should I read them?

A. Well, this is the off-topic thread for PD, after all, and I used to be a very active member of this community (I started this thread in fact, ;) I don't say so to claim ownership, btw, but in a bit of a way to claim rights, I guess—no right to attention nor even one to be heard, you can simply skip them over even if you can't, technically put me on ignore, but I think that between the hours I've spent with weird chemicals in my brain contemplating the world order and the universe that I might lay claim to a few posts in a community that prides itself on having open minds) and these are the off-topics that preoccupy my mind lately. But more importantly, I know that at it's best this community (speaking broadly, not just you guys) is an open one that is interested in having colorful discussions about various intriguing and deep topics relating to the mind—and politics is very much one of these—and at it's worst it's a community that marches in lockstep of rainbows and cheer. I'm someone from a distinctly different background that I think might have something to offer here, although, oddly, I share a background, or a foray into certain grounds, familiar to you all. These posts, like my posts from my Catholic AMA thread in P&S (which is now dormant partly because I lacked the time), sometimes take hours to the better part of a day to research and to type (or dictate and edit), which might seem incommensurate with the medium and the audience. I know the number of people who are going to read them in full much less respond are few, but if there's at least one and one who actually does so with an open mind, my time as a impossibilist (if I were to appropriate some classical left-wing terminology) politically aware person is well spent.
 
skl said:
Warning: absolutely massive TL;DR political post incoming tonight (I started it last night took a break, worked through much of this evening ...)

When I wanna go on long rants about politics, history, or somesuch thing I just put it in nsfw tags. That way anyone not into it won't have it cluttering up the page.

skl said:
as I really, really love 19th century scholarship in general

Me too, one big work I haven't read but want to is The Golden Bough. The 19th century had a lot to contribute to literature (in addition to Clemens, I'm a huge Dickens fan, I think you'd like Hard Times if you haven't read that, it's his attack on utilitarianism, in novel form), art, music, poetry, and architecture to boot. Yes, I realize that "art" in the broad sense covers all those things.

And I'm guessing you've read both volumes of Tocqueville's Democracy in America? That's a great one, and James Fenimore Cooper's The American Democrat is fun. I got the idea to read both of those from Russell Kirk's The Conservative Mind: From Burke to - (- = Santayana or Eliot depending on your edition). Haha, we used to be up the same alley. Now it's just you and Psox on the right.
 
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Hi, everyone!

Lots of political/ideological discussion here lately. To each their own! Our response to all of the programming going on in society of late is to relax together as a family--enjoy a Friday summer evening with people I love and admire. The madness stops here.

I figure the worst thing you could do tonight is stay home in fear watching your Facebook feed. Don't let nut jobs set the narrative, never be afraid and seize the day. Peace! -JAG
 
LOL, you really know how to get under the skin of a Trotskyist.

I see a Trotskyist in 2016 is sort of like a Seventh Day Adventist; the SDA's originated with the Millerites, who believed that the World was going to end in October 1844, in the following months, years, and decades, made various changes and apologies for the same, and are now a fairly mainstream if rather conservative Evangelical Christian group with a few of their own political eccentricities. On the other hand, I have a fair bit of sympathy for the poor Trots, because both of our original "moments" are gone, and, while on our movements have on a number of points been proven prescient, the world has failed to collapse around both of us and the shitshow that is postcapitalism/late capitalism/the post-modern global new world order of Liberal Capitalism and until then all we have is navel-gazing and entryism (stateside, that's settling for Bernie or Trump, or cheering for various parties and politicians abroad who still don't quite fit our bill) and because Trots tend to be smarter than the average hard-leftist and miles smarter than the average left-liberal. And if I could have a Bernie or, for that matter, an off-the-street Trotskyite in the White House before Hillary, I would, perhaps even favoring the latter, strictly as a lessser-of-two-weasels proposition. In the present political condition of the U.S., I think that entryism is a viable position (relative to my past position of abstention from the ballot-box) based upon the remote, but more realisable than in the past, possibility of shaking shit up a bit.

Haha, we used to be up the same alley. Now it's just you and Psox on the right.

Funny, how a bunch of Trots went to the Right and we got the neocon movement. Guess we have some conservatives going Trot too. Horseshoe theory stuff I guess. I think we are sort of millenarian in natur e and that helps.

SKL you are a weird guy... I cannot stand you for your political views and your ideas about society but on the other hand you seem like a very educated and reasonable guy. well I guess it's just refreshing to see that not every conservative / rightwing is an incoherent mess like most of those trolling cep

Weird, I won't argue with, though I'd consider the following:

There's a saying in conservative circles that goes, using the standard American senses of both words, that "conservatives think liberals are wrong [some versions have it as 'stupid'] but liberals think conservatives are evil," I'd amplify the addition of "…and dumb," perhaps on both sides, as I state above, I don't think that everyone on the left is stupid, just wrong, and usually this as a matter of fundamental epistemological prejudices learned from the home and in the classroom (particularly in high education in the liberal artsa.) I really do believe that a lot of you really believe that you are doing the honest and morally upstanding thing to do your part in making the world a better place, I just think that the blinders you have on regarding your ability to do this, how, and why, make you incredibly dangerous.

Although, as famously put by the immortal G.K. Chesterton:

The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types -- the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins.
G.K. Chesterton

Chesterton would have considered himself a traditionalist or a Traditionalist (which are not one in the same), and advocated a now somewhat obscure philosophy called Distributism, which basically holds that the equitable distribution of the means of production, and of property, is the ideal political state (this is quite different from socialism both broadly sketched and in the detials.) Distributism is grounded in Catholic social teaching and ignorance of misunderstanding of it may have a large role in the media's gross misunderstanding of Pope Francis—the liberal (in the U.S.) sense has not as much of a friend in His Holiness as he thinks; nor does the conservative (religiously speaking) Catholic, for the most part (the mainstream media both in the U.S. and in Europe, even in Italy, has done an extremely poor job analyzing various of his remarks on issues such as homosexuality; although he has done little to endear himself to strict liturgical traditionalists, not that he has the obligation to, he is, after all, their (our) Pope.) The economic Liberal, though, in the strict sense of the word (which encompasses both the Democratic and Republican parties in the United States,) does not have an ally on St. Peter's chair, nor does he in traditional Catholic teaching ab initio; Pope Saint John Paul II was widely known for his heroic opposition to communism, but that did not make him a friend of the excesses of capitalism, and in the struggles among the "new things" (literally, Rerum Novarum, the encyclical letter on social issues issued by Leo XIII PP, speaking of industrialization, labor strife, socialism, and so on), the Church always viewed herself as a Mother to all, neither only to the laborer nor to the factory-owner. Catholicism has had it's allies on the Far Right, including Franco, but never Hitler (despite popularly disseminated libel about Pius XII, who, far from being "Hitler's Pope," ordered denunciations of Nazism read at pulpits and sheltered Jews in the Vatican), but has always offered a third wayb, although never an explicitly enunciated political programme.

Similarly, I don't identify myself with any particular political movement (which, in some way, is taking a (the?) easy way out, by not aligning myself with anything that involves systemic consistency not to mention the possibility of embarrasment by leaders or other actors in a political party or movement, etc.) Like the lyric in Heroin, I really do "wish I was born 1,000 years ago." Life would be simpler, certainly; most of the things that preoccupy my mind negatively would not do so, and I'd lose few of those which preoccupy mine positively. As I mentioned before, in the classic terminology of the Old/Hard Left, I would be an "impossibilist," meaning that I believe that the changes that I would like to see are not possible within the constraints of the system in which we currently live; furthermore, I believe that this is getting worse by the day with technological changes. You find many naïve people on both the Right and the Left who believe that their political views are going to, are are gaining a better chance to, prevail, because of the possibility of expressing them to a global platform via social media, or even "going viral." I'll further elaborate on this, infra, in response to some of Xorkoth's points.

Another interesting thing here is "I cannot stand you for your political views…" If not a figure of speech, it's a human instinct, but one that I find better avoided; there are a great many political views that I find utterly reprehensible from out of the gate, but I don't consciously, and in fact sometimes must make a conscious effort not to, extend that reprehension to people who honestly hold this views as I said as part of an honest desire to, in their own minds, make the world a better place. As is implied in the earlier adage I quoted, I seldom see the same courtesy extended from Left to Right. Political tactics can certainly be considiered reprehensible, from lying on the stand or on TV to mudslinging about adultery, etc. to duking it out with fists on the streetsc, and I find "playing the race card" reprehensible, and you might find my "finding playing the race card reprehensible" in and of itself reprehensible, which goes to another important point: the limits on what is acceptable in political discourse, something like the so-called Overton window. In U.S. political terms, many "liberals" might consider anything like discussing the (well-documented) correlations between race and IQ, aggression, crime, etc. outside of the window while many "conservatives" refuse to even discuss new taxes—although, in today's society, they won't discuss the former either, which returns us to the issues of "political correctness," i.e. adjustments of the Overton window relating to political correctness, transgressions of which many of your apparent political persuasion view as not only political but moral wrongs, with even such extreme cases as that of David Howard, who was forced not only to resign from office, but to apologize for the ignorance of others as to the origins and meaning of the word "niggardly."

Anyway, your comments seem surprised that there are well-read, reasonable, and interesting conservatives out there. This leads met to suspect you have not been exposed to many political viewpoints outside of your own (see infra, note a.) I think being exposed to a variety of political and religious viewpoints is essential to being a well-rounded person.With a view to the former, I'd suggest you start doing a little of that. As I've said Protestant Bible commentaries, the Qu'ran and the Bhagavad Gita, even Jewish counter-exegeses to the Christian interpretation of the Old Testament and arguments for Zionism; politically I've read my Marx and Engels through to Lenin, Trotsky, and Mao, or at least the highlights, read The New York Times, The Atlantic, and a number of other (U.S.-sense) liberal-leaning publications, and look forward to daily reading CounterPunch, although a lot of it's contents infuriates (or downright confuses) me—ironically rather less frequently than the editorial page of the Times or their blatant biases on a number of issues (to say nothing of the daily histrionics of the New York Daily News on guns, although on this issue they only play Stürmer to the more internationally reputable city daily's Beobachter.)

I'd suggest you go for a little light reading of your own. I won't go so far as to suggest you go out and buy books, but one of my favorite electronic publications to recommend to people in your situation is The American Conservative, and, perhaps more likely to offend, the blog of John Derbyshire (start with some of his older opinion work and literary criticism), as well as a few other blogs, etc., of course; I'd avoid the National Review, formerly a worthy publication now systemically infected with the noxious bacilli of neoconservatism and Zionism. But check them all out. If open-mindedness is a virtue, as someone alluded to earlier, these are things to be open minded too; even if not, know thy enemy, or, not even, I wouldn't really consider myself a well-educated person or at least a politically well-round one if I didn't have, e.g., the basics of Marxian theory (my favorite introduction to which is Bukharin and Preobrazhensky's ABC of Communism, written before the Rise of Stalin, in whose purges both writers fell victims to political murder.)

The incoherent mess that trolls CE&P, /pol/, comments sections in news stories, other forums, etc., is an entirely different thing. They aren't even representative of a reasonably coherent and intellectual case made for current (neo-)conservative thinking in the United States, which is made within the editorial pages of The Wall Street Journal (who's news coverage, on the other hand, leans rather to the left,) The National Review, the writings of people like George F. Will, or, in the case of the neoconservatives, Irving Kristol and his entire circle (ex-Trotskyite, as it would have it, and at least in terms of foreign policy very much united by Jewish ancestry or influence and an Israel-First agenda, with a more or less generically center-right stances on domestic affairs, tellingly, these sorts of people are often malleable on some of the issues more important to the populist right, c.f "guns, gays, and God.") But anyhow, the trolls, who's left-wing counterparts (more often to be found on tumblr, the Democratic Underground, and same forums and comments sections in which both species of ignorant—faked to be so by trollish design, willingly self-deceived, or plain ignorant—troll is easily found are no better), are basically about expressing repeatedly one opinion or set of opinions, with little backing, introduction, conclusion, evidence, basis in history, whatever. CE&P leans left and there is a contigent of people who like to post "up with the flag, down with the fag," or whatever, repeatedly, to irk the powers that be. Don't mistake that for an intelligent discussion or representation of any ideology whatsoever other than trolling for it's own sake.

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aMost of the conservatives you'll find teaching in undergraduate classrooms, where you'll find them self-identifying at all, are indeed in the hard sciences; as an aside, there are surprising number of fundamentalist Christians in the engineering fields, perhaps because their hermeneutic approach to the Bible as a coherent, self-referential, self-contained and integrated message fits well with that discipline, see the interesting case of the very bright Chuck Missler, former navy man, literal rocket scientist, and promulgator of very questionable eschatological Biblical exegeses. I have a undergraduate degree in International Relations with a minor in European History, and there was a detectable leftward slant in both, but more so in History classes than Political Science classes, which is fairly typical, actual. At my alma mater, our Political Science department made a conscious although not very explicit effort to maintain at least the appearance of "balance" in their presentation of particularly American politics, in the same sense that the media often tries to appear "balanced" by hearing from relatively mainstream Democratic and Republican perspectives on various controversial issues. This claim could be made simultaneously as a subtler and more insidious form of leftist bias was introduced in other departments which did not have "Political" in their name but nonetheless stood to have profound effects on the political formation of the student body.

bA "third way" between capitalism and socialism, a label claimed by many movements, the most mainstream of which is "Washington consensus" neoliberalism of the Clintonian strand. The first "third way" was probably Distributism, now practically forgotten in mainstream distance, then (Italian) fascism came to claim the title (Mussoloni being originally a Socialist), making neoliberalism possibly the "fifth way," if that. "Third positionism," by contrast, as in the American Third Position (A3P) party/gropuscule, usually denotes a sort of moderate fascism, originally the far right in the Russian revolution (National Bolshevism) and the far left in Nazism (Strasserism,) and is something on which I'll have more to say later.

cA lot of the political tactics undertaken on the Left on the "street" level (now expanded to compose the Internet) are thuggish and despicable, like disruption of conferences and lectures by individuals holding dissenting viewpoints on racial and cultural issues, Zionism and what was but now cannot be called "the Jewish Question," etc., by tactics from standing up and shouting to physical violence. The thugs and bullies of the 'antifas' force even fairly moderate voices like Jared Taylor, David Irving, and David Duke (who has even held elected office) to go through hoops in publicizing their speaking engagements similar to those that some of our older members may recall from old school raves. Internet extensions of this are hacking and "doxxing." Now deplorable political tactics occur also on the Right, and more especially online, where the ground is a bit more level, e.g. the epidemic of "doxxing" in the so-called "GamerGate" controversy, which I do not understand, except that ideologies that I dislike are on one side and individuals who, by dint of stereotype, I imagine I'd tend to dislike are on the other, with opportunistic appropriation of the issues and terminology ("SJW") in the broader "culture wars."


took another 2c-e microdose today and went running immediately after. I think I am taking a liking to this :D

[SIZE=-1]Sounds intriguing. I never liked 2C-E, but enjoyed microdosing DOC and DOM (not to mention LSD.) Small or infra-psychedelic doses of phenethylamines like 2C-I—but I'm talking here I'm sure of large doses than you are—however, always used to make me feel the bodily unpleasantness without much reward. I didn't care that much for 2C-I, though, but had a significant amount of experience with it as it was cheap and plentiful at a time where I had little access to 2C-B; once 2C-B was readily sourced for me, although I didn't find it a particularly interesting or profound drug and found 2C-I to be far more psychedelic (although coming with an almost corresponding increase in body load), still nonetheless I preferred to do 2C-B (in stratospheric doses that I would hesitate to mention here for the possible risk of inviting imitators) sometimes in combination with LSD, MDMA, speed (MA, AMP, or d-AMP) or others, largely because 2C-I had too many negative bodily effects for me (while 2C-E had the worst of all, such that I couldn't even focus on or enjoy tripping the two times I tried it—"try anything twice" being my rule at the time.) My love among these compounds is, as I've often mentioned in this forum, 2C-D; and 2C-D has explicitly been investigated as a low-dose nootropic starting quite a while ago, and while I believe that it has potential there, the linked piece should perhaps be read with a good old grain of Lot's wife as even the Erowids warn, "the following booklet is a little overly positive because it fails to detail any negative reactions, negative health effects, or any other negative elements of any of the compounds discussed." I think you might be on a worthwhile track though.[/SIZE]

"Every reality is an opinion. You create your own reality." This is the prime cause of much social pathology, alienation and anomie in the modern world, and is a great enabling factor for how as Xorkoth says sociopathic, power hungry people come to dominate the world: they can do so by manipulating people's supposedly self-created reality to match their own. A thousand years ago, nobody believed that they created their own reality, their own religion, their own government, or anything or the sort; they were more "free" than we are today in their ability to live out their human lives without all the excess bullshit.
I actually do resonate with a few things you're saying in your most recent post, but I fully disagree with this point. I think that people being able to create their own reality makes it MORE difficult for the power hungry people to control you, though on the other hand it creates more disorder in a way because you're going to have people going many different ways.

Disagree and find this naïve in a similar way to the more idealistic forms of anarchism (either of the Leftist or the Right) variety. We can read "people being able to creating their own reality" in a few different ways—

Each person can create their own reality. Solipsism, essentially, but as the old saw goes, even solipsists look both ways before crossing the street. We do, of course, see a lot of rather sophomoric use of this in informal debate ("well, that's just your opinion, man. We can have opinions on sports, our favorite meal, Dead show, or psychedelic drug, these sorts of opinions more or less by definition cannot be wrong (Yankees/Jets/Knicks/Rangers/Syracuse; veal picatta; 3/1/69; 5-MeO-DMT); we can also have opinions on questions of a social, political, or religious nature or with implications in these and similar ones with culture– or even species–wide consequences. These are a bit different. It might be pleasant diversion to argue about whether the Mets should trade Harvey, whether 5/8/77 is better or comes from a more interesting era than 3/1/69 or whether Keith was better than Pigpen, or even if the former was a “a HOAX perpetrated through a joint effort of the US Department of Defense and the CIA,” although the latter might tell us something about you of a rather different character than whether you're a Keith-and-Donna fan or not. It might even tell us something useful about our own neurochemistry to know that I like codeine and dislike DXM (the importance of this should need know explanation here), and it might even be a point of moral/ethical debate whether I had ought to slaughter young cattle in order to enjoy them thinly sliced, pounded, and sautéed with butter, lemon, white wine, parsley, and capers. This moves us slightly into a different category. If you're a vegetarian/vegan, and one out of conviction rather than faddishness, taste, or the insistence of your girlfriend, then you think that I'm [size=-1]WRONG[/size] for liking (or at least eating) veal picatta. At which point, you're creating you're own reality, as am I, but yours is wrong (because animals are tasty to eat, contain essential nutrients, and were put on this Earth for that purpose.) Of course then, you think my meal has rights (and, by correlation, are more likely to think that 'Caitlyn' Jenner is ontologically female.)

Which leads us to another reading of the phrase, the people create their own consensus reality. This is a democratic statement, and we can see all around us how well democracy has turned out. I think it was Churchill who said it is the "worst form of government, but better than all the others," but I'm not quite sure that he's right.

Republic—Authority is derived through election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles, and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.

Democracy—A government of the masses. Authority is derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic, negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the people shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation, or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demagoguery, license, agitation, discontent, and anarchy.
U.S. Army Training Manual Training Manual No. 2000-25 (1928)


You'll often find this quote with only the latter half given, it was popularly circulated in New Left Circles (from whereby it even found it's way into the (BSD) UNIX fortune(1) database, which actually has a lot of countercultural influence.) For obvious reasons this version has been claimed to have been a fraud but as far as I can tell it actually is not—when in unexpurgated form, the quote is not denigrating democracy per se, presumably in favor of tyranny, but is favorably comparing a balanced system of government as supposedly enjoyed by the United States to chaotic and unstable rule by sheer force of public whim. The latter clearly involves a degree of élitism but the latter is, outside small and heterogenous societies (primitive tribes, the old New England town meeting) in relatively peaceable circumstances is impracticable and, as being prone inevitably to degeneration into chaos, is highly dangerous. Ironically, our present "pickle," as you put it, has come about from the confluence of these two evils, from pressures from both above and below.

On a similar theme, M. de Tocqueville is alleged to have said, "a democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury," but this is a misattribution (as is pseudo-Voltaire's "to know who truly rules over you, look for whom you are afraid to criticize", both of which contain a great deal of truth despite being misattributed to more famous than the (apparently anonymous) men who created themd.

Thing is, that individuals are by and large to weak to individually "create their own reality," to think otherwise is to give the "mob" too much credit. The average person does not create his own reality, even if we might grant that he has the potential to; he delegates this potential to thet media, and all the more so in the 21st century, where we see such phenomena as the phenomenon of self-reinforcing bias in Google search results (when I make searches typical of, and click on results relating to, for instance, Catholicism or paleoconservatism or Euro-skepticism or whatever else, then Google will present me with more of the same, reinforcing my own biases; so too for people of the opposite political persuasio), and the selection of people who you "follow" or "friend" on Twitter, Facebook, etc. which all tend towards the creation of self-reinforcing "bubbles" of small consensus–realities created not by a single person but simultaneously organically and artificially (all the more so when we consider that paid advertisements, including paid advertisements of a political nature, also influence these results) created simulacrum consensus reality. This is not a good thing. Even if we accept that democracy is necessarily a good thing (which I do not, for a variety of reasons that I will elaborate upon later,) these influences are not good for democracy. The essential problem here is this—the informal, floridly opinionated, and audience-catering nature of social media and a lot of the content generated online and now even in "old media" by "new media" influence lets us feel as if we are making use of it to "create our own reality," but in reality, it is "creating [our] reality" for us. Which makes it not a tool for freedom, but a tool for totalitarianism. Here we can insert arguments about net neutrality, etc. which is not really as simple an issue as it's advocates would have it.

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d Such practice has existed since antiquity and only came into serious ill repute since the invention of the printing press, nonetheless, such literary fictions or misattributions often contain much truth and attain great influence. What has become known as the work of "Pseudo-Dionysius the Æreopagite" (7th century or so) was attributed to that rather obscure Biblical figure more or less without question until the beginnings of modern textual criticism, for instance, was and remains hugely influential on Christian theology, it's authorship having either been concealed as an ancient form of false advertising, or, because his name really was Dionysus (still not uncommon among Christians in that era), and within a generation or two of his text, written on papyrus, being passed around, optimistic and pious monks thought him to be the Biblical figure.


I believe religion and dogma (there certainly exists nonreligious dogma as well though religion is by far the primary method of delivering it) are the most powerful and frequently used tools to control the masses. If you set up a system where there are certain "truths" and no way to ever question them, and these truths center around the fate of your soul, it's incredibly easy for anyone with a mind to gain control and the drive to actualize such to control the beliefs and behaviors of the people. On the other hand, people who believe as they see fit are much more likely to not buy into that controller's agenda. Time and time again religion has been the vehicle for corruption, and I think that's unlikely to change.

Every mode of power has been a vehicle for corruption. The Church certainly has had it's share of corrupt clergy up to and including various popes, although Alexander VI, of ill fame including at least three separate TV series called some variation of The Borgias, while unchaste and not particulaly attendant to religious matters, was not particuarly among them; in fact, he would probably gain praise today for his attention to the social problems in Rome and the Papal States, the secular government of which was in his purview at the time. More importantly, the Church owned a great deal of property during the medieval era, giving even abbots of orders pledged to poverty a profit-motive, a lot of this was problematic, but it was the nature of the system at the time, and arguably the Church was a better custodian of these assets than the various warring petty states and nobles. A common criticism of the Catholic church is "why is not all the gold in the churches and liturgical instruments, the priceless works of art, etc. held by the Vatican and the Church elsewhere to feed the poor?" The answer being that these serve a higher purpose, religiously, to elevate people's hearts and minds as they worship God, and moreover to connect people to 5he "unbroken chain" of Church history."

But I digress (yet again.) As to claims to absolute truth—this is a feature of all coherent ideological systems including left-liberalism, the social justice movement, etc. While the Bible holds that the unforgiveable sin is "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost," the former holds that the unforgiveable sin is the expression of contrarian views about Blacks, Jews, homosexuals, etc. The individual who feels free to "believe as they see fit" is a rarity, and the fallacy of liberal democracy is to believe that such individuals are found in such abundance as to be entrusted with the government of a nation; particularly one as large and heterogenous as the United States, where the electorate will inevitably fracture into various groups based on ideology, identity, etc. and vote more according to the reality created by these groups and their self-reinforcing memes than according to the reality that they create for themselves; hence my earlier comments about democracy being tenable perhaps at the level of an old New England town meeting—in a small, homogenous community. At a national or an international level, it is an impractical and failed system and one which has been proven to have baleful results as it is all to easy to manipulate the electorate into believing, or more particularly fearing, this or that, and to fracture it into various groups which can be aligned with one another to the advantage of the powers that be. In the game behind the game, the "flag vs. fag" controversies are exploited by international capitalists who care little for either, and instead rely upon the public histrionics generated by these battles to distract the public from issues of real import (I used earlier the example of the transatlantic free trade treaty, or, twenty or so years before, NAFTA; these were opposed by the far left and far right, while the mainstream left and right quarreled over dog whistle identity issues and the same.)

Regarding globalization, as you put it, "Liberal Capitalism" (but I mean it in more than just a capitalistic sense, I also mean in terms of culture), I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I love the vibrant differences between cultures, the fact that things can be drastically different elsewhere.

This has always been the case, of course; the vibrant differences in cultures are more being eliminated by globalization, though, than they are being highlighted. They are only being made more available to the uncultured tourist. A trivial, even silly, example of globalization that I like to cite took place within my first hour in Sri Lanka, looking for something to eat in the airport. The options were more or less the same as they would be in America—Burger King, Pizza Hut, some faux-Chinese place, as this airport clearly catered to Western businessmen and diplomats who had come to deal with the "free trade zone" (more on this later), but I opted with Pizza Hut, and ate some very delicious chicken curry pizza, which I'd never find in the U.S., but was Pizza Hut's concession to Sri Lankan culture, I suppose. Silly. More distressing was the "free trade zone," about which I wrote elsewhere:

We did a bit of the usual sightseeing, but a lot of time spent in Colombo talking with government/military people (and staying at the Cinnamon Grand, a legitimate 5 star hotel and the classiest place I've ever stayed at, cheaper than a motel on the outskirts of NYC!) and in the border regions around where the A-9 highway was bombed to shit. Heavy stuff. Another student who I stayed with was doing her thesis on globalization, the "free trade zone" and labor conditions there, mostly for women, who lived in not quite squalid but quite poor conditions within the "zone," basically a company town. Clearly this is not a place they show tourists so we made up some letterheads and nametags and bullshitted our way in there posing as a delegation from an American corporation! That was fun if a bit nerve-wracking at times. I still have somewhere a shitload of photos of the women who lived there at home and at work. Home is probably comparable to the villages they came from but much more densely packed with the consequences of sanitation, etc. and there was a lot of risk of violence [*especially sexual violence], etc. Working conditions weren't as bad as you might imagine.
This is the fruit of globalization for those on the receiving end. We get cheap consumer goods and the ability to gawk at cultural differences, and the conditions experienced by the women in the "free trade zone" were quite honestly probably better than those in their home villages, but their way of life is greatly disrupted and overall we upset a delicate balance over there. This is not too different from colonialism, and in many places it is worse—most of the horrors experienced in the Third World in the latter half of the past century are directly attributable to botched decolonizations (under which heading I would include the formation of the Jewish state in 1948, a concession by the British to an unusual alliance of war crime victims, terrorists and global financiers.)

And the current culture spreading across the globe has done a whole lot of bad in the world, both to other cultures/its own people and to the environment. Most frighteningly, it provides an excellent framework for the power mongers to be able to utterly control the planet. And in fact that's probably the force that's going on behind it, or at least, a big part of it (I also think it's inevitable that technologies such as cell phones, satellites and primarily the Internet will cause such a trend to emerge).

See my remarks above on the Google-search-bias effect. The surveillance aspect of the Internet and cell phones has been done to death elsewhere, so I won't even touch up on it, but yes, technology allows an almost insurmountable advantage to the powers that be, both in terms of shaping the narrative, and thus, in democracies or nominal democracies, the 'Overton window' and political possibilities, and in terms of controlling the populace by surveillance and fear of it's effects.

1984 is always cited as being prescient to our current predicament, and it is, particularly as regarding to the manipulation of language by élites. For instance, to borrow from a post I made elsewhere, in polite mainstream discourse, criticism of things like Zionism, Jewish political-economic-social influence, #BlackLivesMatter, migrants, etc. is off limits. Simultaneously, indigenous cultures should be preserved. These types of identitarianism are above criticism, sometimes even protected by law; every other kind of identitarianism is hate speech and criticizing the aforementioned types of identitarianism is hate speech.

[The Newspeak word 'blackwhite'] has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink.
Orwell, 1984

However, as has also been remarked variously, Huxley's Brave New World is just as, if not more, prescient. Since we're a drug forum, we'll return to drugs for a moment. My day job is as a cog in the wheel of the carceral mechanism of the state as relates to the mentally ill. We treat them with medications which have an array of unpleasant and dangerous side effects, but which are ideally able to control symptoms, which is not as common as one might hope—more often they merely control deviant behavior, and when they don't, we are forced to apply violence (ideally in a controlled manner) in order to control the situation and to administer medications to control behavior or to sedate persons against their will. There has been a lot of radical criticism of psychiatry, most famously from psychiatrists cum 'anti-psychiatrists' like Szasz and Laing, but also from critical theorists who point out that psychiatric diagnoses are used inequitably and as a mechanism of control in minority, especially African-American, communities, and this is true, but my answer to all criticisms of psychiatry is that while they are generally correct on general principles, they are lacking in presentation of viable alternatives. I'd love to attempt to set up, with an unlimited budget, some kind of program in a large swath of farmland somewhere upstate where my patients would live in small homelike settings, milk cows, have therapy sessions, take meds as they need and chose, etc., but that's impossibly idealistic. It's not happening, although I wish it would.

But anyway, psychiatric medications, also spreading globally (and being, like many other pharmaceuticals, tested on sometimes unwitting Third World populations as guinea pigs) and have a great potential to be used as an instrument for implementing "pharmaco-totalitarianism," as they are capable of producing something of an apathetic and compliant state. However, let's return for a moment to the original question, as relates to psychedelics and politics. In Huxley's World, people weren't controlled with Thorazine but with something maybe a bit more like MDMA. I'd argue that psychedelics have as much if not more a possibility of being tools for social control than neuroleptics, for what makes a person in a more pliable and subjective state than a high dose of a psychedelic or empathogen? This is why, in the hands of a good therapist, they may provide therapeutic potential; this is also why they tend to produce people who become walking 'hippie/New Age' stereotypes, as this is often associated with psychedelics and becomes a self-reinforcing 'strange loop.' Imagine the possibilities in the hands of a government.

But, I also think it may be our only chance of ever coming to a productive peace as a race. If we rid ourselves of nationalism, it may be possible to eliminate the us vs them mentality that causes hatreds based on race and other differences. And if we could set up a benevolent distribution of resources and energy, we might be able to figure out how to provide a better life for more people, and a cleaner planet (imagine for example a global electrical grid, we could put a bunch of unclear power plants in places far away from the ocean and earthquakes and tornadoes and such, where it would be extremely safe, and get rid of them in places like Japan and the American west coast, but still have power for everyone). I realize this is quite idealistic, I suppose it relies on eliminating the power monger aspect of humanity, as does any solution of government or religion. Hence our pickle.

Your solution necessitates global totalitarianism. ("Eco-fascism" and the "green–brown alliance" are, in fact, political phenomena, albeit in the fringe.) And global totalitarianism that begins as eco-totalitarianism wil inevitably extend far beyond that. "Eliminating the power-monger aspect of humanity" is the problem. The anarchist/libertarian/minarchist says, eliminate government inasmuch as is possible, but this allows private power-mongers to take over; the monarchist says, an underrated argument these days, let one who is trained to rule and has a personal stake and personal ownership of the realm have the power, but this allows for a bad apple to take all the power; the democrat says, let the people decide, but the people are easily malleable. So the cynic says, we're fucked. All I can wish for is to dial back a lot of social and political changes that have taken place of late as much as possible, and make life simpler. Proposals beyond that wind up being pretty radical. I suppose I'd favor a moderate sort of fascism but with a distributist rather than corporatist economic system, international isolationism, a moderate focus on identitatrianism, and self-sufficiency, and an emphasis on local communities, but how likely are we to achieve this democratically or by any other means in my lifetime? Not very. So the best that I can hope for, or really that any radical can hope for, is to shake things up and get the status quo challenged. Go Donald, go Bernie. Let's see chaos. Burn it all down, and see what rises, phoenix-like, from the ashes; perhaps it will be the global totalitarianism we are already well on our way towards, but the trends are against this–the #Brexit, the realignment of power away from the "unipolar moment" after the breakup of the Soviet Union, the resurgance of right-wing, identitarian and nationalistic movements the world order. All of this gives me hope, wihle it stikes fear into the hearts of my ideological opposites. All that one can really say is that we live in interesting times.
 
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sorry i don't have much to add other than Huxley's soma would have been a hallucinogenic-narcotic which didn't cause dependency or hangovers and to congratulate you on one of the longest 'worthwhile' forum posts i have read.
 
Let me just say first off that I loathe the partisan system and debate. Life and systems of government are not so simple as to be neatly categorized into two diametrically opposed sides. For the record, I don't think of myself as a democrat or republican. My views are certainly closer to the liberal side than the conservative, but I believe I have a range of opinions on various topics and issues that I have arrived at based on thought. Of course it is impossible to fully escape social programming and I have a tendency to align with what you might call the "liberal agenda" in my gut reactions, but given time to think about something, I try to be moderate. Basically I think this country and the world have been overtaken by zealous extremists, or at least an extremist discourse that inspires zealous extremists in the people so that they can be more easily manipulated. I'm constantly torn between trying to keep faith that we can figure out some system that will work for us long-term, and wanting to burn it all down. I think the democratic party and the liberal agenda are fucked, and I think the republican party and the conservative agenda are fucked. It's all corrupted, no one is the "good guys" up there at the level of the power mongers. Our culture is being profoundly manipulated to serve the ends of those in power, and the sooner we can get off the current partisan political train, the better. The entire thing frustrates me greatly and when I think about it too much, it makes me angry and sad, so most of the time I try to just live my life and be a good person in the way that my intuition tells me to. I try to make things better for the people I have connections with, and I try to look for the beautiful things in life and immerse myself in them. Bluelight is almost the only place I ever spend any time in online or in the whole social media thing (other than for work). Nevertheless I do have thoughts and opinions about these subjects, which I have developed over the course of my life. But I consciously try to limit my time thinking about them because to me it feels unhealthy, for me. When I get too deep into this shit, it makes me feel depressed and hopeless and I prefer to have the ability to feel happy and hopeful because then I can enjoy my days more fully and hopefully inspire some others to feel the same way too.

There's a saying in conservative circles that goes, using the standard American senses of both words, that "conservatives think liberals are wrong [some versions have it as 'stupid'] but liberals think conservatives are evil," I'd amplify the addition of "…and dumb," perhaps on both sides, as I state above, I don't think that everyone on the left is stupid, just wrong, and usually this as a matter of fundamental epistemological prejudices learned from the home and in the classroom (particularly in high education in the liberal artsa.) I really do believe that a lot of you really believe that you are doing the honest and morally upstanding thing to do your part in making the world a better place, I just think that the blinders you have on regarding your ability to do this, how, and why, make you incredibly dangerous.

I don't think the difference is so dramatic as you say between the two sides. I think extremist idealogy on any side of any issue is incredibly dangerous. And just look to the atmosphere on social media of either side towards the other... it's full of venom and hatred going both ways. Read Facebook comments to political articles... people are spewing the worst sort of vitriol at each other from both sides of the proverbial fence. Remember post-9/11, when the term "libsurgents" came about to describe people expressing liberal views. Given the monumental event that had just happened, that term takes on even more venom than it would out of context.

Anyway, your comments seem surprised that there are well-read, reasonable, and interesting conservatives out there. This leads met to suspect you have not been exposed to many political viewpoints outside of your own (see infra, note a.) I think being exposed to a variety of political and religious viewpoints is essential to being a well-rounded person.With a view to the former, I'd suggest you start doing a little of that. As I've said Protestant Bible commentaries, the Qu'ran and the Bhagavad Gita, even Jewish counter-exegeses to the Christian interpretation of the Old Testament and arguments for Zionism; politically I've read my Marx and Engels through to Lenin, Trotsky, and Mao, or at least the highlights, read The New York Times, The Atlantic, and a number of other (U.S.-sense) liberal-leaning publications, and look forward to daily reading CounterPunch, although a lot of it's contents infuriates (or downright confuses) me—ironically rather less frequently than the editorial page of the Times or their blatant biases on a number of issues (to say nothing of the daily histrionics of the New York Daily News on guns, although on this issue they only play Stürmer to the more internationally reputable city daily's Beobachter.)

This does not surprise me at all, there are of course intelligent and thoughtful people in any group. The baseline level of discourse from both sides is pretty rock-bottom, simply a regurgitation of various hot-button phrases and opinions espoused by talking heads that you're supposed to agree with. Neither side has the advantage here.

Disagree and find this naïve in a similar way to the more idealistic forms of anarchism (either of the Leftist or the Right) variety. We can read "people being able to creating their own reality" in a few different ways—

...

Thing is, that individuals are by and large to weak to individually "create their own reality," to think otherwise is to give the "mob" too much credit. The average person does not create his own reality, even if we might grant that he has the potential to; he delegates this potential to thet media, and all the more so in the 21st century, where we see such phenomena as the phenomenon of self-reinforcing bias in Google search results (when I make searches typical of, and click on results relating to, for instance, Catholicism or paleoconservatism or Euro-skepticism or whatever else, then Google will present me with more of the same, reinforcing my own biases; so too for people of the opposite political persuasio), and the selection of people who you "follow" or "friend" on Twitter, Facebook, etc. which all tend towards the creation of self-reinforcing "bubbles" of small consensus–realities created not by a single person but simultaneously organically and artificially (all the more so when we consider that paid advertisements, including paid advertisements of a political nature, also influence these results) created simulacrum consensus reality. This is not a good thing. Even if we accept that democracy is necessarily a good thing (which I do not, for a variety of reasons that I will elaborate upon later,) these influences are not good for democracy. The essential problem here is this—the informal, floridly opinionated, and audience-catering nature of social media and a lot of the content generated online and now even in "old media" by "new media" influence lets us feel as if we are making use of it to "create our own reality," but in reality, it is "creating [our] reality" for us. Which makes it not a tool for freedom, but a tool for totalitarianism. Here we can insert arguments about net neutrality, etc. which is not really as simple an issue as it's advocates would have it.

...

Every mode of power has been a vehicle for corruption.

...

I'd like to give more time to responding to some particular points but I don't have it right now because of work, and honestly I'm not sure how in every case because I am not nearly as well-read on these topics as you are, and I don't feel that politics is the way in which I can help the world so I don't really care to spend my energy becoming substantially more well-read on it because I notice a very direct correlation between the amount of time I spend thinking about this stuff and my level of happiness. But I think we can agree that human nature is the entire issue here. There are a variety of systems which, if realized in an ideal way, could work, but they rely on everyone participating selflessly and honestly. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to do that, so it always reverts to power/control hierarchies and ruins the whole thing. And meanwhile, most people are just waiting eagerly for someone else to tell them what's right.

All that one can really say is that we live in interesting times.

That we do, that we do... fascinating and bewildering times. There's a lot of really beautiful things about it, and a whole lot of really disturbing. Such is life I suppose. As we grow as a species, the inherent insanity of our condition vibrates with a higher and higher frequency (I don't mean this in some new-age sort of way, but as a graphical metaphor/representation). It's pretty fucking intense to be a human. Intelligent enough to have free will and the ability to be aware of being aware. I love it, and it exhausts me. Depends on the day.
 
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